TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

first things first, i look at what bolth was saying (with a slight preference on EoD), then see who would benefit most from his death

*He was on the Xiz wagon at EoD so it could possibly be a play to make everyone else on the wagon look worse

Everyone who isnt DBP, storn, Freezin, Gradiant and me would benefit from that.

*Haku voted for bolth so I dont think he would benefit from his cardflip that much but to offset that Bolth was heavily suspecting Haku near the end. So ill cancel them out

so we have Fatfuck, MML, Roundbox, Raeko, Shadow, Psycho, Haku left.

*Checking the post history, bolth really doesnt have that many stand out opinions or pushes anyone hard so its hard to see any landmines he might've stepped on so no points here.

*The next point is contentious but i really doubt a wolf would kill off a scumlean when its hard enough to make a case against someone when you know everyone's alignment. So i will exclude anyone who was suspicious of bolth or had him wolf leaned on their last reads list. (Unrelated point but Bolth was null on quite a lot of lists)

That take off Haku again, and to an extent shadow and MML, but they were suspecting bolth but not scum leaning so ill add them to a tier below who is left

So what we have left is:

Roundbox, Raeko, Fatfuck, Psycho as the people who would benefit most from bolth dying, and Shadow / MML making up a tier below them.

ATM i cant really think of any other tests to narrow the pool but im sure ill come up with something later

OK there's at least something here

how reliable do you think any of this is? It seems really dangerous to make fast-and-loose conclusions about a nightkill in a closed setup

If bolt was a simple wolf kill then I'm inclined to just assume he was a safe target that would never be doctor saved

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

Also a snapshot reads list from.you would be helpful so we can all gauge mindsets going into today

[MixMasterLar]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

You probably wouldnt be satisfied with the results.

first
Everyone who isnt DBP, storn, Freezin, Gradiant and me would benefit from that.

Yous right.

i dont know if you know this but there is a thing in the bottom of the screen that shows which users are viewing the thread. Using that you can know whos actually in thread! If you want i can go invisible, so you never know that im viewing the thread.

on a side note, i do think it would be nice if shadow would actually look at content and talk about it while im actually puting it forward instead of complaining about how i need to make more content. It looks like you care less about solving the game and more about making yourself look like your doing stuff.

I better not find out you made this post as town
The whole bit about going invisible is such a shitty way to try and pretend you have a point that it's insulting to Shaodw, the rest of the players, and the game itself.


While we are on the subject of Storn let me check something

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

i'm sure enough that im town, and that xiz was town and we were the top 2 wagons. The only other major wagon with votes looking at eod was RB. In general wolves dont want to try and make last minute vote changes as it looks fishy, especially when they KNOW they're lynching a town. The major ??? is whether or not RB is town, and if it would have had any effect on the wagon if he was a wolf. based on how RB was there to self pres if a wagon gained traction on him and he wasn't on either of the 2 big wagons i think we can say him being a wolf did not play into the situation.

The reason DBP does not get this "pass" is that he started the wagon, and wasn't really on anybody before hand. i'm not saying its he's not town, but i dont think he's clearable based on this line of thought.

of course this all relies on you to believe me that im town, which doesn't seem to be the popular opinion. oh and if RB was a wolf i feel that its more likely that the wolves were on me than on Xiz.

to those asking about storn townreads:

This is a storn-tier town post. It goes against the grain of the current thread state, isolating me as being wolfy when such a thing had not been seriously brought up prior. This is the kind of thought that does not feel filtered through wolf-chat, but rather one that he conjured as a way to expand his own perspective on the game. (In his own weird way)

I can't say for sure but I think that wolf storn would consult wolf chat before making a strange accusation, and then COMMITTING to it, and given how storn has been under the spotlight so far, attracting additional unnecessary suspicion to himself with oddball theories is not something he'd want to do. Leading me to think that this is a good-faith read, since ultimately wolf storn has almost nothing to gain with a play like this.

I'm not going to clear him for this alone but it is a thing that I would like other players to seriously consider. I think the way to solve him is to press him for reads, not combat with him in an adversarial fashion. If his reads and game-solving start to drop then his facade has fallen. But spending all day arguing about stupid shit that happened yesterday isn't productive at all. The same thing goes for the MML/Raeko spat. If you really suspect someone force them to act in the present, instead of wasting their time justifying past behavior.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

hot take: everyone on the XIZ wagon except potentially dbp is town.

quoted post for context.

I thought this was a shitpost at first but the post I linked above shows at least some level of sincere thoughtful reasoning

In light of recent games I'm afraid of overpowering other players into agreeing with me, or making authoritative statements about my opinions, which is why I'm asking for others to evaluate the ideas I put forth so that I don't get tunnel-vision with both town and wolf reads

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

to those asking about storn townreads:

This is a storn-tier town post. It goes against the grain of the current thread state, isolating me as being wolfy when such a thing had not been seriously brought up prior. This is the kind of thought that does not feel filtered through wolf-chat, but rather one that he conjured as a way to expand his own perspective on the game. (In his own weird way)

I can't say for sure but I think that wolf storn would consult wolf chat before making a strange accusation, and then COMMITTING to it, and given how storn has been under the spotlight so far, attracting additional unnecessary suspicion to himself with oddball theories is not something he'd want to do. Leading me to think that this is a good-faith read, since ultimately wolf storn has almost nothing to gain with a play like this.

I'm not going to clear him for this alone but it is a thing that I would like other players to seriously consider. I think the way to solve him is to press him for reads, not combat with him in an adversarial fashion. If his reads and game-solving start to drop then his facade has fallen. But spending all day arguing about stupid shit that happened yesterday isn't productive at all. The same thing goes for the MML/Raeko spat. If you really suspect someone force them to act in the present, instead of wasting their time justifying past behavior.

I believe Lar mentioned he never gave a read list yesterday, and I mentioned that he is one of few who have not either. If.there is still dancing around this topic, I don't know where I would go other than absolute frustration

[MixMasterLar]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

Im an idot, when did haku claim?

Listen i miss stupid shit all the time. Take a look at last game where i missed greg claiming. It happens.

If you're a town PR, don't explain things. Just keep using night actions.

There are many ways he could be alive. Assuming he claimed which you have yet to show proof of btw. I think its better to wait until d3 to look at him being alive.

Btw, i do remember haku talking about claiming. But not the claim. And if you want to use something like this as an argument how can a believe you with no evidence that the thing your whole argument is based on really happened.

this is what happened iirc. Haku said something like "don't make me claim" but never actually did it

I had to go work and couldn't decide what was the best course of action.

I also feel like there's no reason to claim anything right now.

Ok, thats what i thought. So lets not have people start claiming over that night.

Man it's kind of hard to read this and think that Storn went on that "Lar has no evidence" kick without knowing that Haku was gonna try and play take-backsies. He seems really intent on being a member of #TeamHaku

Inb4 "mml grasps at strays lulz" I guess.

[MixMasterLar]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

DBP we cpntinously asked Storn for reads all day and he read like 2 people and made a bunch of excuses so how long you want me to do that before I'm allow to scum read him?

Lo, Shadow has asked for reads this phase already and he hasn't attempted to answer that, just went on about invisibility or some shit.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

If.there is still dancing around this topic, I don't know where I would go other than absolute frustration

that frustration and burnout is something I'm sensing when it comes to discussion on storn, raeko, and Haku

it's not that the discussions aren't valid, but they feel circular and non-productive, which is why I suggest honing in more on how they feel "today" instead of rehashing pointless arguments

for example, force raeko to give current reads and drill her on that. it forces her to generate NEW thought, and if she's a wolf it will expose a gap in her defenses. The Haku discussion about the "claim" feels like the outcome would be decided by salt and frustration instead of actual scumreads

[MixMasterLar]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

Also justifying past behavior is a legit way to catch contradictions and find wolves lmao

DBP I don't know what your on about rn

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

quoted post for context.

I thought this was a shitpost at first but the post I linked above shows at least some level of sincere thoughtful reasoning

In light of recent games I'm afraid of overpowering other players into agreeing with me, or making authoritative statements about my opinions, which is why I'm asking for others to evaluate the ideas I put forth so that I don't get tunnel-vision with both town and wolf reads

Freezin DID read you as "Hero EOD" which is like... I want to think you're sick of that mentality whenever you roll town, like you just want to play the game like everyone else. I understand the respect people have of you as a player but I don't think EOD should.depend on you entirely, it requires multiple voices, objections, agreements and active communication in order to solve players and find wolves...

Speaking of wolves I'm going to be mental to assume theres a world somewhere with Raeko/Storn. One of those two feels like a hit to me

[MixMasterLar]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

that frustration and burnout is something I'm sensing when it comes to discussion on storn, raeko, and Haku

it's not that the discussions aren't valid, but they feel circular and non-productive, which is why I suggest honing in more on how they feel "today" instead of rehashing pointless arguments

for example, force raeko to give current reads and drill her on that. it forces her to generate NEW thought, and if she's a wolf it will expose a gap in her defenses. The Haku discussion about the "claim" feels like the outcome would be decided by salt and frustration instead of actual scumreads

You can't say the discussions are valid but then suggest we don't continue then until they give new reads

The reason we are having these discussions is that they won't give reads/even pretend to be productive

You are in effect telling us to cease pressure and I don't like it

You know DBP, you said Haku and Storn should be looked at/scrutinized today, why don't you place a vote on one of them?

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

I've been begging Raeko AND Storn for reads

As for Raeko: YES. She has INTERACTED with people. YES she has given thoughts on things. This isn't what I WANT. I WANT a full read fro her. EOD she gave us a town pile, a.pile that's not quite town, but the only lynch she was okay with was Storn...

As for Storn he went deep under the radar in my eyes and I DON'T think he's put up a list of anyone? Someone correct me if this is wronh

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

Raeko and Storn: I want a fucking list of reads and your own thoughts within 24 hours from now.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 192: Sunfan's Cool Game Game Thread

DBP we cpntinously asked Storn for reads all day and he read like 2 people and made a bunch of excuses so how long you want me to do that before I'm allow to scum read him?

Lo, Shadow has asked for reads this phase already and he hasn't attempted to answer that, just went on about invisibility or some shit.

I'm not justifying his past behavior or exonerating him of criticism, because his play yesterday was undeniably bad, I guess I'm trying to avoid tunnel-vision because that's how it usually manifests with me in these games

linger on their bad (or even scummy) play from yesterday while putting on blinders to their current play leads to tunnel-vision

-------

do you think storn's refusal to give reads is a scummy behavior? in this case I'd read it more as "stubbornness" which is on average NAI IMO

in early game I think tilting and refusing to cooperate is more of a town sign because human emotion is more likely to dictate town gameplay than the crafted, self-aware behavior of a wolf

I guess ultimately keep pressing him but just make sure you're able to periodically take a step back and see the bigger picture