TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

yeah ok, I said I would do it, and I think I have. I think we're gonna get a really fast lynch today on T-Force. Post #734 is his list of players he's been suspicious of. HE HAS NOT CASTED A SINGLE VOTE ON ANY PLAYER HE HAS MARKED AS SUSPICIOUS OR RED since his vote on me wayyyyyyyyyy back in the beginning other than riot, and that was when Riot was getting bandwagoned. You've done nothing but vote for players that you feel like are going to be lynched, classic wolf play.

If you're a human, you're a bad voter, but a decent player in context of people being suspicious of you or not.

Post #794 (seriously, how did I not see this earlier) is a classic example of this. You also tried to get people off of mellon, as in post #799 and a few others, starting to feel more and more like she's a wolf. I think pete makes a good point in post #1010, and I'm kind of kicking myself I didn't notice this earlier.

Interesting you use the logic you do in post #1121. This doesn't feel like a post you've made anywhere else in the context of the game. You basically ask us who else we can bandwagon, and insert the only bit of evidence that could possibly be used agianst Charu. "Lets lynch charu, he might be the master wolf because there's a chance anyone could be, and I'm not going to give any evidence regarding why I think he could be the MW."

Post #1132 basically wraps it up. You'd been talking shit on Charu, but hadn't voted him. You were saving for the insta. Its obvious. #1142 doesn't even make sense... you're saying a lot of nothing, hoping people don't notice that you bandwagoned RP. You also claim in this post that you're not suspicious of RP because he's a noob, then argue agianst a nooby post of his in #1147 (agian, how did I not notice this), using other people's arguments, including the person we just lynched(!) to make your point.

Finally, post #1153 feels like a challenge. A human would just say, "you're wrong, but I can't convince you, and I have nothing to hide, so go ahead." This post reads like a challenge. You're confident in your play, because you've done nothing but bandwagon.

You're a wolf. If I can't get you lynched by the end of the day, I will consider myself to have failed this game. RIP.

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

Don't seer me, I think no one other than pntballa has any suspicion on me, and I think I've proven my green-ness more than any other character. I strongly encourage you to seer someone else, I'll leave that to your discretion, though I suggest mellon. You will get a green result, and you will have wasted another seer. I have nothing to hide, and if you insist upon seering me, all you will have done is spent another day down a dead end.
Plus, as I've stated, my plan was to get seered by the shaman, but not our guys, and if I screw that up now, I'm gonna be really sad ;_;.

I don't think we should lynch Xiz today. I think I've made more than a definitive case against T-Force.

[T-Force]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

Awww, I'm touched. You went all this way to prove me to be a wolf only to be wrong. How sweet. =')

And yes, I did those things, no point denying it, but let's use this:

You also claim in this post that you're not suspicious of RP because he's a noob, then argue agianst a nooby post of his in #1147

That's like suspecting me for the sole reason of being a noob, not because of my posts and their content. You're doing the latter to me like I did to Riot.

As for bad voting, what would you like to see from me? Unique votes? Votes from out of left field? I've stuck votes on every person I've been suspicious of at the point of the vote, save for maybe my first ever one. Xiz, Riot, Charu. Maybe I wasn't as suspicious of Charu as the others, but my point stands.

So good luck dealing with your failures as I'm not red. I'll say that as often as I want because it's true.

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

some of the posts he made on his way out. I can answer more specifically but I'd like to hear good/bad from others first.

also, fuck you Pete, you don't get to say that because if you're a wolf you can just say what makes you appear to most green/puts you in favor with the most people. I want to hear your thoughts now.

[dAnceguy117]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

too many null reads for me atm. I'm rereading the entire thread and taking better notes.

I think no one other than pntballa has any suspicion on me

this on its own would actually make you a solid seer pick

I wouldn't seer sunfan though.

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

your "bad voting" (yeah, bad phrasing from me), stems from you waiting until there is notable suspicion on a player before voting for them. You campaign agianst them lightly, then vote for them once a few other people have. Why did you wait for the insta on Charu? You seemed pretty suspicious of him. Also, if you're going to argue agianst my points, don't pick and choose which ones to argue agianst. Either all or nothing, dude.

[dAnceguy117]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

also, fuck you Pete, you don't get to say that because if you're a wolf you can just say what makes you appear to most green/puts you in favor with the most people. I want to hear your thoughts now.

kk, I already said I think d2 lynch was good though so it's not like I could or would change that lol, but will do.

Maybe I wasn't as suspicious of Charu as the others, but my point stands.

didn't you just say you're at 75-80% on Charu as red

[T-Force]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

Why wait for the insta? Someone was going to get it. It just so happened to be me. I didn't know his vote count, but all I knew was that he was close.

And alright. FULL REBUTTAL!

Post #734 is his list of players he's been suspicious of. HE HAS NOT CASTED A SINGLE VOTE ON ANY PLAYER HE HAS MARKED AS SUSPICIOUS OR RED since his vote on me wayyyyyyyyyy back in the beginning other than riot, and that was when Riot was getting bandwagoned. You've done nothing but vote for players that you feel like are going to be lynched, classic wolf play.

Let's look at my votes: You, Xiz, BDN, Riot, Charu.
My vote on you was an icebreaker - no more, no less.
My vote on Xiz was due to him being an asshat and looking really suspicious so I pegged him.
BDN was another one I was heavily suspicious of, and still was until Tokzic practically confirmed his innocence.
Riot, as you mentioned, was red on my list.
Charu, was indeed green, but as I said "if you're red, you're playing a solid game." Which he was until the end there where he started to slip. My read on his was orange-red and leaning red.

If you're a human, you're a bad voter, but a decent player in context of people being suspicious of you or not.

There's always room to improve, and that's something I will work on.

Post #794 (seriously, how did I not see this earlier) is a classic example of this. You also tried to get people off of mellon, as in post #799 and a few others, starting to feel more and more like she's a wolf. I think pete makes a good point in post #1010, and I'm kind of kicking myself I didn't notice this earlier.

794 was weighing the basic options and forgetting some variables. This was also assuming the typo was to be taken literally.
As for 1010, yeah, bit early, but seeing as he had a fair amount of votes before the extension, and was nearly insta-lynched soon after, I figured it'd be a for-sure call.

Interesting you use the logic you do in post #1121. This doesn't feel like a post you've made anywhere else in the context of the game. You basically ask us who else we can bandwagon, and insert the only bit of evidence that could possibly be used agianst Charu. "Lets lynch charu, he might be the master wolf because there's a chance anyone could be, and I'm not going to give any evidence regarding why I think he could be the MW."

Might be. Pretty much everyone here MIGHT be the MW. Anyone who comes back green MIGHT be the MW. Anyone who says "Seer me, I'm green" MIGHT be the MW. There's not a lot of evidence to ever back up that claim (at least not that I've seen so far) but it's always a possibility and there's always that underlying truth when people want to be seered. Not saying Charu ever did, but the claim still stands. Heck, by your logic of being seered green, YOU could be the MW. Do I think that? Not really. Is it a possibility? Yes.

Post #1132 basically wraps it up. You'd been talking shit on Charu, but hadn't voted him. You were saving for the insta. Its obvious. #1142 doesn't even make sense... you're saying a lot of nothing, hoping people don't notice that you bandwagoned RP. You also claim in this post that you're not suspicious of RP because he's a noob, then argue agianst a nooby post of his in #1147 (agian, how did I not notice this), using other people's arguments, including the person we just lynched(!) to make your point.

Not my fault Charu brought that point up. This is back when I had little suspicion of him, and probably shouldn't have used that in my argument. As for the rest of the rebuttal to this portion, see my previous post.

Finally, post #1153 feels like a challenge. A human would just say, "you're wrong, but I can't convince you, and I have nothing to hide, so go ahead." This post reads like a challenge. You're confident in your play, because you've done nothing but bandwagon.

Wouldn't a wolf just say the same thing to appear human? Knowing that if people think said wolf is a human and bluffing to the point of saying "do what you will" to get people off their back?
I'm confident because I know my role is innocent. I'm no wolf.

You're a wolf. If I can't get you lynched by the end of the day, I will consider myself to have failed this game. RIP.

[dAnceguy117]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

why I think the d2 lynch was solid, gj guys hopefully

Don't forget you fucks that Tokzic pretty much called you all out. So, are your actions trying to "appear green" now?

"Tokzic pretty much called you all out" is referring to Tokzic saying that those who voted BDN look bad. looks to me like Charu was trying to move some pressure toward Raeko/sunfan/Xiz, but Charu had been voting along with sunfan and Xiz like all of d2 so doesn't seem like legit wolf reads from him. just looks panicky imo.

So, here's the situation now, well for me at least. Toxzic is suspicious as fuck of me and is pretty much, or feels like rather, convinced I'm a wolf. I don't die today, I will certainly die tonight with him just killing me.

BDN and Tokzic already covered this. Charu said he didn't realize the vigi kill could only kill someone who had been seered red by inspector. it's entirely possible he missed that but it's also possible he knew and was backpedaling. errors from townies do happen, but at some point you gotta lynch this stuff.

Then seer me. It's the only logical conclusion now. Seer me and you'll see I'm green.

this makes more sense from a wolf's POV than from a townie's. if he's actually green, we put off lynching him, he gets seered green, he could still be MW. it's a waste of a seering.

if he's MW, obvious reason to say that. even if he's a red who would be seered red, this would be a better option for him than him getting lynched d2. the alternatives for d2 would be a nolynch or a probable mislynch. inspector uses the seer on him which would've been used on someone else, and inspector probably wastes the vigikill on him. uses up far more resources that way.

god damn it assholes, you're losing another green.

"another"

sounds to me like d1 was a mislynch and Charu knew it.

[T-Force]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

didn't you just say you're at 75-80% on Charu as red

I was like 90-100 on Xiz, BDN, and Riot when I voted for them. I'm mostly sure Charu gave himself away later on, but there's potential for doubt.

[dAnceguy117]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

cool, long post from t-force, will read soon.

Riotpolice while I take notes. not like 2 votes is DANGER ZONE or anything but let's not cut this day short.

[T-Force]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

As for "another green" it could be referring to the nightly kills, but even so. Solid points.

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

Point #1. You threw suspicion on Charu for a while. It had been quite some time that we had all been talking about lynching charu, but no votes from you until just after I re-cast mine for him. As I said earlier, obvious wolf play to ensure the lynch.

Point #2. I agree that your vote for me was an incebreaker, that's what I've been taking it as. I'm not saying you're suspicious for it at all.
Lets see when you voted for Xiz... oh, it was when he had a few votes on him already and was drawing heat. (Post #307)
Lets see when you voted for BDN, oh, it was when you just finished your list, and put him as an unknown, basically voting him for little reason, despite the suspicions on RP (possible wolf play putting a fellow wolf in red then not voting for him) (Post #734)
Lets see when you voted for RP, oh it was when he had a few votes on him and he was drawing heat. I think you realized that your wolf buddy was screwed and you threw a vote at him a bit early to appear less suspicious. This stayed until Charu was lynched. You had a vote on RP for a while, had him in red on your list, and then you don't try chasing after him. You also had Charu in green on your list, not to mention most people that you've gone after in this game have been green on your list. (Post #794)
Your vote for Charu says it all for me, really. Even for a new player, you don't withold a vote of someone you're suspicious of. Ever. Unless you're a wolf ensuring a lynch. There's no reason for you to have held onto your vote, especially when it was on someone that hadn't garnered anywhere near the suspicion they had previously. I don't know what else to say about this, other than this is wolf play 101.

Point #3. You just defended your votes very, very descriptively in a rather decent manner, THEN play the *I'm still a noob card.* This doesn't work. You just supplied evidence that you're not very nooby. You're going back to your N1/D1 play of playing the noob-card for your reasons, when this is clearly not the case.

Point #4. I didn't even mention the typo. I knew it was a bunch of nothing anyways, but you feel the need to defend yourself about it, despite me not mentioning it. Covering all your bases, perhaps... this is a full rebuttal after all. Nothing too suspicious about that other than the *tiny* bit I get from you mentioning it despite me not mentioning it. The main part about that post is you voting for RP, especially when he had garnered suspicion on himself, despite the fact that you felt BDN was a better vote. You even imply that you're voting RP because other people are... which is strange. Post #1009, you really say that? You really say you still think he was gonna be insta'd this quickly after the extension, especially after we talked about having more time to think, with how rushed the switch to him, just to get *SOMEONE* was, even with me advocating taking votes off of him several times...? idgi man. Inb4playing the noob-card is your response to this, as well.

Point #5. This is a lot of nothing. I can sum it up into "anyone could be the MW." Yes, this is true. So what? You didn't make any point regarding your thought that Charu could be the MW, simply saying that there's just the chance, so we should kill him. You also seem fine with not getting Charu, as long as we get someone else. You also say that you appear fine with getting him now, despite him appearing green on your earlier list, and yeah, things change. Your confidence in lynching him appears rather off, and you seem to just be saying what will make people happy.

Point #6. No, you should not use any argument from a person we just lynched. I mean, c'mon. Just say what they meant... put it in your words lmao. A noobie play, more than anything. A wolf playing the noobie card can still make youngster mistakes. But no. I don't think you're a noob. I think you're playing this game very well for your first time, and that your dedication to proving your innocence is admirable. Its the fact that your posts are suspicious as all hell that get me going after you. I really hope I've shown some other people your red-ness, not because you're a noob, but because you've been making votes that a wolf would make, and throwing suspicion and votes on players that are already weak. You should never lynch a player because they're a noob. If they're doing something SO STUPID that they would need to be lynched for the betterment of the town, chances are they're going to be modkilled for doing something that ridiculous. And yeah, you can you're green as often as you want. It basically falls on as deaf ears as my plea to not be seered by toixziui.

Point #7. Ah, this is a good argument by you, and a very poor original one by me. I think your personality is showing in that post. I think you got a little scared that I was going to go after you, because you're new and you feel like you've made mistakes that would show your redness. Yes, a wolf would say that to appear human, but you didn't say that is the thing. That's what makes it suspicious. You didn't even say what a wolf would say, and I think there's minimal chance you're the blue, otherwise I wouldn't be campaigning against you. If you were the enforcer, you would be having more ideas about people you've seered. You don't have very many opinions regarding players, not enforcer play. There's no way for me to say you're not the role-blocker other than my gut, but if you are, I'm probably going to cry because that would mean that I've led a campaign against 3 special roles now, probably qualifying me for "Worst townie ever."

Point #8. This is a challenge back to my challenge. See above. This is not what a human or wolf would typically say. That's why this is suspicious.

My original intent still stands. If I don't tie a length of strand of fiber around your neck by the end of this phase, I really will have considered myself to have failed.

[T-Force]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

When the hell did I EVER lynch someone because they're a noob? Unless you're just saying that to everyone in general, this makes little to NO sense.

Alright, round 2.

Point 1:
I was, and am, still suspicious of Riot with a minor suspicion for Charu. Either way, if I feel they're both wolves, and one's about to die, yeah I'll lynch the other one. Why not.
That said, how is anyone supposed to know without any evidence, which is I think they key you're looking at here. That's my bad, but I didn't want to just say "*vote* read above to see reasons that I agree with to kill 'im".

Point 2:
Yep; true, although this was based off of me interpreting his typo too literally which lead me to second-guess myself when I made my chart; true; noted.

Point 3:
'Scuse me, princess. What else am I supposed to say to "you vote badly"? I'll vote different from everyone else from now on? There's not much else to say to this one because this is the one point that can drop, haha.

Point 4:
Yeah, covering my bases and explaining my thought process. Even if you don't mention it, I'm not going to forget that. Again, I figured Riot was seen to be a wolf by myself, and others, and figured he'd be gone without anyone else really picking up suspicion.

Point 5:
I live to make people happy, problem?
Seriously though, that info should be in everyone's head. Maybe Charu could be, maybe anyone could be. Also, you keep going back to my earlier list which was made WAY before Charu started slipping. That green turned red. It happens.
As for me being happy with it, why not? I felt there was a good chance we'd gotten a wolf. Plain and simple.

Point 6:
Noted. I don't have much else to say to the first bit as I see this more as advice than anything.
As for that last sentence, if he wants to, he can be my guest.

Point 7:
Again, not much else to say to this. Thanks for the compliment, you're right in that I'm afraid (due to the fact you're barking up the wrong tree).
Other than that, not much else to say.

Point 8:
Lmao, if this is referring to that last quote, I TOTALLY forgot to reply to that!
Here's the response to it:
I'm not a wolf so I hope you're cool with failure. That is all.

[T-Force]

Re: TWG CIII: New Players Welcome

Also, for aforementioned suspicion that STILL lingers, Riotpolice.
You're still nowhere near clean in my eyes so go ahead: convince me why you're not a wolf.