TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

[Vendetta21]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

yea, and she claimed betray and no power received. you're not reading, and I think it's because you're set on a plan.

TPS

What? This would be an absolutely ridiculous plan. I think you're reaching quite a bit to paint this picture. TPS would be hanging himself up for a single kill in exchange for an immediate counter-kill if he were a wolf and psycho was human. Given that wolves can dream up fake power roles to make gambits in this set-up, thiiiiiiiis concept of a plan, and subsequently this vote, is a stretch.

Are you bringing suspicion on TPS because he was suspicious of you and it makes you more comfortable as a wolf to accuse those suspicious of you? (Did it to me, too.)

dance

[Vendetta21]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

Also I have zero problems lynching jrodd this phase but really with this much phase time you guys should be flirting with other options first. Lynching jrodd and talking about it a lot constrains the discussion. Either he is a wolf in which case there's a critical mass you hit where the wolves will eat their young or he's a human and we've fucked a second phase in a row by offering up raw steak on a silver platter.

[Vendetta21]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

Also runescapedude and lito still haven't posted. They should be replaced soon.

[Vendetta21]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

Hey afrobean your tunnel-vision and bad logic makes you pretty fuckin' annoying as a player. So if psycho is lying (evidence here suggests more strongly towards her than TPS) fojar would not be allowed to comment on that to TPS because then TPS would be privy to insider or special information. The same would be true for if psycho was telling the truth, TPS would still not get to know about it cause what psycho did last night is private info and only she can reveal it.

Only psycho could contact and get resolution from fojar if there was a mistake. So blaming TPS here seems awkward for a few reasons. Granted this actually seems way more outright stupid than it does wolfy.

So... Maybe you're a bit rusty after taking a break for so long, maybe that's why you have an extremely delusory self-conception that thinks you can bark lynch commands and people will respect and listen to you, maybe that's why you've advocated lynching three players with no more questions asked, maybe that's why you cling to strategies and styles of gameplay that don't require any taxing analysis like a holy mantra, stammering "lynch all liars." Maybe you need to step back, take a deep breath, and remember that relearning old skills is still gradual, even if accelerated.

[j-rodd123]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

Maybe I should sponge V this game those posts make me really happy

[psychoangel691]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

Alright fojar got back to me and it turns out I did have a power but I hadn't realized it I just thought it was part of the game itself.

[Brilliant Dynamite Neon]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

Whoops, I got distracted by Steam Game events, go figure.

Also I have zero problems lynching jrodd this phase but really with this much phase time you guys should be flirting with other options first. Lynching jrodd and talking about it a lot constrains the discussion.

Damn straight. Only point I'd differ on is that I think that either TPS or psychoangel should be the day's lynch, because it's near guaranteed that one of them is a wolf, over the lone liar j-rodd who could possibly be just a dumb townie.

I don't buy the mod error story. It took fiendishly complex games to ever get me to make mod errors, and I was in my mid teens at the time; this game isn't exactly the 12 Tasks of Hercules to host and I doubt anyone as meticulous as FoJaR would have made such a blatant misstep. So the fact that these two would not only bring that up, but fail to follow up on it when pressed on the matter cements my lynch decision for the day. We should ABSOLUTELY look for other people this day however, 'cause we need to make up for lost time...or should I say stolen time?

The end to the last day was one the most bullshit endings to a day I’ve ever seen, and I'm pretty sure because of it we can nail a few wolves. I mean, I was all for lynching j-rodd at first, more than anyone else, for which I was swiftly rebuked, and even considered a lynch target; then suddenly, someone with sufficient authority (aka Tokzic) speaks out in favor of his lynch, and not only is he not attacked for it, but suddenly almost everyone is either:

- busy lynching j-rodd, or
- standing idly by while other people lynch j-rodd.

That's pretty fucking sketchy IMO, and I will be taking a close look at the end of last day to see if I can identify any potential ringleaders.

As of now I am more inclined to think Manti is human, because I strongly suspect that the wolves engineered the dogpile on j-rodd in order to stop discussion of Manti's plan. I've looked it over and it's pretty solid, and even if you think Manti is a wolf trying to cement his place in our hearts by proposing it, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Even if wolves do get powers, humans will be getting much more, and the chance is much higher that there will be some accountability. At first I failed to realize that wolves can't actually plan for twilight as the pairings are completely random, even though what happens in them won't be. The only reason that it "failed" is that there's no room for compliance in something that the town didn't even get a chance to agree on. Cutting off the town's discussion when there are still things to discuss is an anti-town move, plain and simple.

Also, aside from the powers, this little gem from Afro makes me think of a neat side effect.

#6: People need to stop being so fucking stupid. If you have a brain, post like it. Almost everyone needs to step their game up.

This really hit home because I have the feeling that people were intentionally playing dumb/safe/neutral in order to game the twilight decisions and get themselves a power (this is what j-rodd claims his gambit intentions were, which is why I favor a TPS/Psycho lynch over him.) If they are, this plan will be undeniable incentive for them to CUT THAT SHIT OUT and start wolfhunting as normal, to the best of their abilities, which is desperately needed this game. We implement this plan and this element is gone: what is prescribed to happen at Twilight happens at Twilight, unless there's a damn good reason for it not to.

So, here's how I think it should go from here:
- j-rodd, psychoangel, and TPS are on the town's collective shit list. Every twilight, we follow Manti's plan, with the caveat that if you get one of these people, you betray them no matter what.
- We lynch either TPS or Psychoangel today.
- Worst probable scenario, the one we picks flip human. If someone gets a vigi power, you kill the other person. Then we move on to lynch j-rodd.
- If lynchproofing or guardings happen, no matter. Since under this plan humans will be guaranteed a good amount of powers, it's likely we will happen upon a vigi kill. Basically, who ever we can't lynch, we vigi, and vice versa.
- All the while, we use the time we have to wolf-hunt so we have at least some idea of where we're going once these people are dead.

Sound good?

Oh, and psychoangel

[psychoangel691]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

I'm a bit frustrated at how this went down because there was no way I could know what I got was a power and not part of the game. The worst part is I can't even actually explain it. The only thing I can say is that I don't get a vote this period.

[psychoangel691]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

Although really I didn't get a power because what I got was a 0 vote -_-

W.e. at this point I'm pretty sure I'm dead. It was a legit misunderstanding but I know in a game like this convincing people of that is probably going to be impossible.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

Just an FYI I'm moving into my new place this week/next week. Between moving/Christmas and the shopping/wrapping I still need to do my activity is going to take a nosedive.

Catching up now.

[Brilliant Dynamite Neon]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

Really, no one else is going to step up and debunk the blatant lie? Well, I'm feeling lucky right now, so I'll take this up!

First of all, it's my 21st birthday! Well, technically, I'm not 21 until about 5 PM this day, but everyone goes by the legal definition. Which suits me just fine, because I might be getting a fine birthday present: getting Psychoangel the wolf lynched!

Psychoangel, aside from the fact that a -1 vote goes against the very concept of a "power" and is a stupidly safe fakeclaim, the claim that you would not know you even had a power is complete bull. When you do get a power, you are explicitly notified, with a PM that says "Night X Power".

How do I know what happens when you get a power, you ask?

Okay, this is where I come clean. I have lied, but IDGAF if I get lynched after j-rodd, or even before j-rodd. I am 99% sure I am taking a wolf with me.

I did not actually trust Vendetta T1. I betrayed him and got a vigi power, which I used to kill Xiz.

My rationale was that he was very difficult to read for me, and on Day 1 in recent games, there's always a ton of contention and policy lynch BS surrounding him, and considering the potential lack of powers on the human side, I didn't want the usual circus clouding the town's minds. I thought that would be advantageous to the wolves. I figured, "if he's a wolf, woohoo! If he's human (which he was), at least the wolves will have to act in a vacuum with no real convenient scapegoats, and the Day's discussion will be more productive." Which worked! Sorta...kinda. I got scared to admit it because of the tension around it first day. I felt that an admission would be tantamount to suicide, giving the wolves yet another free kill and cementing my place as LVP. But now, worst case scenario, it's a 1:1 trade, which is always bad for the wolves.

So there, mystery solved on two fronts.

There is literally no excuse for you not knowing what happened, angel. You get a pop-up, showing you the name of the PM, if you even look at the damn forum. If you get a power, and you had access the forums, which you certainly did, there is simply no reason for you not to have known you had something, at the VERY LEAST.

I'm satisfied now. I'm going to get to cleaning my house. I'm gonna have people over for my birthday and such.

[dAnceguy117]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

What? This would be an absolutely ridiculous plan. I think you're reaching quite a bit to paint this picture. TPS would be hanging himself up for a single kill in exchange for an immediate counter-kill if he were a wolf and psycho was human. Given that wolves can dream up fake power roles to make gambits in this set-up, thiiiiiiiis concept of a plan, and subsequently this vote, is a stretch.

Are you bringing suspicion on TPS because he was suspicious of you and it makes you more comfortable as a wolf to accuse those suspicious of you? (Did it to me, too.)

dance

at the time when I placed my vote on TPS, I was thinking I would absolutely be voting for TPS or Psycho. TPS looked wolfier to me at that moment. you're right though, it's a stretch. I was trying to think of reasons why a wolf would still go for it despite the low payoff, thought of something involving powers, but didn't even consider that TPS got no power.

anyway I switched off quickly and shot a message to the host asking if everyone who receives powers will always be notified. (the answer was yes, by the way.)



I don't like how constrained everyone's votes have been.

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

I don't think I can play this game here if this is how you people are going to do it.

I don't even know which fucking liar to vote for now.

THIS IS WHY LYNCH ALL LIARS IS GOOD POLICY. IF LYING IS TOLERATED, EVERYONE CAN DO IT.

[dAnceguy117]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

ok afro wanna make your case for that policy after the game or something?

in the meantime maybe try working with what you're given, and figure out which lies make sense as wolf gambits.

[Brilliant Dynamite Neon]

Re: TWG CV: Christmas in the clink

Okay, I just realized I am a COMPLETE FUCKING MORON.

I had a voice in my head telling me this was a bad idea, and I ignored it. I should have stuck with my story and waited for someone else, who legit had a power, to come over and bust psychoangel's lies. But I didn't and now the town is suffering for it.

Don't mark me as LVP just yet, though. I have an idea that will close the discussion, but in a HUMAN-favorable direction, and give you the truth once and for all.

I don't even know which fucking liar to vote for now.

Oh come on, it's simple!
Lynch ME. That's right, me, moi, yours truly.

Why? I can split this into plenty of reasons, but they all have to do with one basic fact: When I flip green, you will KNOW that I'm not bullshitting, and that everything I've done has been for the humans. Therefore you will have no reason not to go with my suggestions. The only exception will be if the majority of you think they are inherently flawed in a way that has naught to do with my level of suspicion, AND IF SO, WE SHOULD WORK THEM OUT DURING THE TIME WE HAVE LEFT IN THE DAY, BEFORE YOU GUYS LYNCH ME.

Plus, once I'm dead, you can follow the plan I laid out to the letter, since I will no longer be a spanner in the works, and you guys can move on to greater things (e.g actual wolf lynches!)

But I repeat: my game plan should have a full discussion before my lynch! Lynching me is the best option right now, but it should be done LAST.

Finally, here are my reads for posterity.

100% town
Only the dead.

townish
Vendetta
Afrobean
Charu

null
Guest
Manti
mellon
YMIA
KgZ

sketchy
dance
Tokzic
YoshL (sins of the father, etc.)

get outta town
jrodd
TPS
psychoangel

get into town
lito
RSD