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Re: jTWG LXVIII (Gam hread) - Welcoe to
I think the votes look something like this?
enith (1) - ston
xna (1) - dfr
sorn (2) - zenh, kia
benin [1] - aaaaa
dfr [1] - henfa
aaaaa [1] - xel
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Re: jTWG LXVIII (Gam hread) - Welcoe to
not caught up cuz I got up late and need to go to work; leaving my vote where it is and I think its the best course for today.Comment
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Re: jTWG LXVIII (Gam hread) - Welcoe to
Come on. Really.
Stop comparing to last game. Last game was a fluke.
I'm better than that.
Mother fucker, you dumb if you're putting greg above me
Gonna be frank and that this post is weird considering that if both of you were actually thinking, you'd realize how much better a lynch than anyone you are yourselves.
DFR, you're awesome and everything but like
Are you fuckin' serious.
Like go reread page 19 again.
List of users in which I'd lynch them currently (top = best lynch):
Storn / Kiba - If you've contributed less than I have, you're doing it wrong. You two have been here, but haven't done shit. Zenith's out there making plays, you're sitting there twiddling your thumbs.
Like I get it when you're feeling like every post you're gonna make doesn't fit and such, but like, disregard a little safety and you might save yourself from being mislynched. Assuming it is one.
Storn was not very willing to try responding to my response on page 19 to one of his posts. Like he understood he needed to say something, but the problem is that he didn't realize I actually wanted that 1 by 1 player analysis, because even if you give everyone nulls, you're giving us your thought process, which is just as valuable to us as town.
If you read this as kidding / just nonsense read it again.
Psycho - AFK again. At least we know why, and that it's not abnormal.
DFR - I dunno what you doin there bruh, but cut that shit out if you're town.
Benguin - Mostly AFK, totally willing to move this in exchange for a thorough read list for now. Do like that he's not interested in making excuses tho.
Greg - Originally had you higher than DFR because you aren't playing what I feel is standard greggles day 1, but regardless of that you're not usually a good day 1 lynch anyways.
AA - I like the way you analyze things, but your analysis so far feels wayyyy more off than last game and compared to live TWGs.
Zenith - It's very weird saying that you're town.
Xel - Well no shit.
Storn.Comment
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Re: jTWG LXVIII (Gam hread) - Welcoe to
@Xel I really like the english in your section about kiba lmao
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Re: jTWG LXVIII (Gam hread) - Welcoe to
So I took little notes as I read. Here they are, reformulated as coherent thoughts. I realized later it would be better to at least preface relevant posts by their post number. Sorry for the posts that don't...I'm too lazy to fix. I avoided multiquoting because it would make this post too long and I feel like it's distracting for me.
In regards to the Zenith "bandwagon", it wasn't a bandwagon: it was 2 votes in addition to a gambit self-vote.
Both Zenith's and Xel's initial suspicion on greg...I still don't feel like I get where that was coming from. Maybe I need to reread early d0. But I feel like throughout reading a lot of the thread the suspicion against greg sounded middle-school gossip of like "hey dunno if you've heard, but greg's been very wolfy lately!"
The whole self-vote thing was incredibly awkward. You initially justify it by saying you'd rather die. Then you take back those words. You then give elaborate on the supposed actual reason (more on this later). In any case, the whole ordeal was confusing and you somewhat lied. I'm surprised no one tried to push for a policy lynch in that regard: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?...ynch_All_Liars. I personally can make exceptions to this policy, but I feel like your gambit was reckless and not worth it in my personal opinion.
#121
Also, early in phase, a lot of your efforts were focused on inactivity. This is understandable. But it felt at some point it was becoming excessive. For example, pointing out AA viewing the thread and not saying much and considering him as being wolf because of that. Most arguments involving the "Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread" list is usually pretty weak and can easily be refuted.
At some point, Zenith says: "Can't say much about the rest of you guys since you still want to shitpost". This seems like an attempt to cast shade on those that were shitposting earlier. At that point, most of the shitposting had already concluded so I feel like zenith's post was unnecessary. Also, I don't think people want to shitpost just to shitpost...it's just how the game naturally works in the very early parts of d0.
AA, forget which number post it was, but at some point, my read on you went from null to towny. Your responses seem very natural, full of original thought and content yet not contrived feeling. The joke vote on storn though was a little weird though since though shitposting had mostly concluded by that point.
This post from Zenith rubbed me the wrong way: ""I'm mainly voting to ping out players and none of my votes should be considered serious until EoD or I exhibit a trait that shows I am being serious in my vote." It seems like he feels the need to overly justify/explain his own actions, i.e., "this is how you should interpret my actions" after the fact that those actions have already occurred. This kind of behavior isn't towny to me.
Also, you say that your votes are used to gather data points, but if all of your votes aren't serious and everyone knows that, then do they really mean anything?
In regards to Zenith saying ""Also as a player in my own meta my votes are 9/10 never serious until EoD because voting is a good tool for forming data points." I think the voting that happens during the Random Voting Stage of d0 is useful. But it's not useful it it's truly random and "never serious" because then the vote becomes meaningless.
#139
dfr's questions to kiba felt awkward and forced
#142
zenith's demand for dfr to answer his own questions and to make more relevant posting felt even more awkward and overly aggressive.
#150
Zenith goes from being aggressive with dfr to suddenly town reading him. either dfr was extremely convincing or zenith is not being consistent between his reads and actions.
#149
Storn votes for Zenith on a gut feeling. When I first saw that post, it was OBVIOUS and very clear to me it was a gut feeling so I don't understand others who say otherwise.
#152
Zenith: ""Storn you have played enough games where you should KNOW that voting + making a read based off of "idk something feels off without logic" is completely and entirely skewed and not a true read." This has to be the biggest bunch of bologna I've seen from you so far this game. This is hypocritical in more ways than one:
1) you argue that storn's vote has no logic when you claim that 9/10 of your votes aren't serious.
2) you say you use votes simply as a way to gather reactions which become data points. What's to say he wasn't trying to do the same?
3) The way Storn voted for you feels very similar to the way you cast suspicion on greg; i.e, things "feeling off"
Also, before that, it seems you were on ok terms with storn, I think you might have even read him as town earlier. But his vote on you made you make a complete 180 on your read on him. I fail to see how that single post by storn could cause you to suddenly change your reads.
Lastly, it's ok for people to have gut reads. It's like the annoying little kid that continuosly asks "Why?" until you're to the point where it's impossible explain. For example, I like chocolate. Why? Because I think it tastes good. Why? It just does.
#155
dfr demands storn show how he feels that zenith is "off" even though storn said he needs some time to think about it. felt overly aggressive and also seems like a means of piggybacking off of zenith.
#156
a lot of content in this post from zenith I already argued. What bugged me was when you said "and [your] read itself is entirely false". Please stop writing things as if they are fact when it's not a confirmed fact to everyone else yet. It's like you're writing in that way to instill into town that you are confirmed town when you are in fact not.
#159
I have a little bit of a mindmeld with AA here on being wary of the fact that zenith town-read xel when all xel had done was post gifs earlier in the phase. town points for that.
#161
zenith explicitly claims he can read xel solely from his gifs. I find that hard to believe. I do agree that xel is very good at conjuring up reactions from people...both in and out of twg.
#169
kiba's joke vote on zenith was uncalled for considering the shitposting ended long ago. Overall though, I'm not going to think too much of this since it seems like kiba is fairly inexperienced and still trying to get a feel for things, even if only by joking around for now. I have higher expectations for him in later phases though so he's a good candidate to revisit depending on how he progresses throughout the game.
#175
"It's okay, besides sunfan I couldn't care whatsoever about their votes because there is literally nothing that is backing the suspicion or logic around voting me."
See above
#178
I agree with storn here that Zenith's behavior is more aggressive than usual. Aggressiveness could be thought of as a form of tryharding which is wolfy but that's not what concerns me. It's more so the fact that his actions/tone are aggressive but his reads very "flip-floppy". I feel like I'm watching a bipolar cop that plays both the good and the bad cop and it's creeping me out. This ties into my earlier point with his actions not aligning well with his reads/beliefs.
#186
Zenith: "I use self voting strictly for my own purposes in introducing a data point that can be read in a series of angles but predominantly it is used to test a possible wolf." I don't quite understand that last point. What kind of reaction are you keeping your eyes peeled out for when you self-vote exactly.
#192
dfr accuses storn of poorly using self-voting meta against zenith (I feel like I might have misread though). It's ironic that zenith has done the same thing but worse: he's used self-voting meta AND self-meta (meta about himself) and put them together to form possibly the worse kinda of meta possible: self self-voting meta (meta about self-voting himself). it's just...uggh.
#197
in response to zenith, you're not being townread. this post is another example of where you talk as if it's confirmed you are already town.
#212
xel's long post. I mindmelded with many points. a few exceptions:
-xel seems a bit wary of AA, but I'm not overly concerned myself even though xel's points do hold some merit
-I think AA's reasoning for not abusing the day 0 voting mechanic is more of a personality thing if we are sticking to the analytical mindset; i.e.; analyzers are moreso thinkers than doers.
Also, thank for your mindmelding on the whole self-meta / self-voting thing.
Lastly, you end by saying greggles is a good vote...I feel like I haven't heard much good reasoning from anyone yet (see my previous confusing about greg)
#216
I see a little bit of self-praise here and it shows a little bit elsewhere at times as well. Maybe not so much alignmen-indicative, but annoying.
#218
greg, that baseball analogy was pretty spot on. I agree.
#233
xel: LOL
#245
AA: "I know that you were super confident that you wouldn't get an additional 2 votes to get instad but I still think self-voting is awkward at best and terrible at worst. There are just too many cons to justify doing it." Thank you. I was beginning to think I was the only one that felt the self-vote was in bad taste.
#255
yes xel, you are right. I can't be a wolf if I'm already a penguin!
#256
Wasn't too sure if this vote was a joke vote on Xel, AA. Going to assume it is unless you say otherwise.
#286
You say that you want tsunfan to stay with little reasoning when earlier, you were suspicious of him and stuff.
#300
AA calls dfr lazy here, I agree with the sentiment here.
#322
greg's read list. most of his points I find agreeable. I feel like the reads could have been more drawn out, but they were satisfying enough for me in terms of sounding genuine and displaying a level of original insight.
#346
*pushes your face away* I don't like the eyes of others being on me.
#353
"This is alignment indicative
I'll let others figure.it out by why I said this" -Zenith
this is also alignment indicative, I'll let others figure it out by why I said this
#366
storn's post was very unsatisfying, but I don't necessarily attribute that to being wolfy since it could be that he's lost his reading mojo.
#370
here AA defends me against zenith's suspicion of me. I give him town points for this since he later votes for me himself. Overall, he's shown flexibility in his reads based off of new evidence in a way that is natural (unlike zenith). Also, it seems like he's looking at everyone with a healthy grain of suspicion, even if they share the same views as himself. I feel a wolf would be instead be more likely to blindly agree and disagree with people to further their own agenda.
#378
@storn: I have reading confidence issues myself. The you can do is point out things you've observed that are town or wolf indicative. Weighing those observations into a read is what I have trouble with, but those alignment-indicative observations along with a little bit of reasoning is still helpful to town nonetheless.
#380
xel, what happened, you disappeared!
#382
zenith, me withholding information was a side effect of me simply not being in the thread. that was not my intent.
#384
here you state that now you feel like storn and kiba are misguided town. like I said before, feels like your opinions are very flippy floppy.
And a quick reads summary and thoughts about how I think the lynch should go:
AA: I feel like he's put a lot of content out there, original insight, and is playing very naturally with a good analytical mindset. A solid town read at the moment from me.
Storn: His performance this phase has been poor overall with his posts lacking depth and quality. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt this phase but I'm hoping he's able to step him game up later.
dfr: I haven't seen many good things from dfr. His posts seem "lazy", lack depth, and it seems like he's mosting reusing previous arguments. He's put in a fair amount of effort to "appear" in the game, but I'm not seeing much of him trying to solve it. The attempts he does have at trying to solve the game seem very forced and awkward. He seems like a reasonable lynch candidate for today.
kiba: mostly just shitposting. I don't recall him saying whether or not he has experience with twg so I'd like to hear from him if he hasn't already said anything about his previous twg experiences. Assuming he's a new player though, it'd be cruel to kill him d0 and I'd be willing to give him another phase to get his head into the game.
psychoangel: null. You said zenith is trying too hard which is a sentiment I somewhat agree with. but there isn't enough from you for me to formulate a read.
zenith: I'm not going to repeat everything again, but I don't like zenith. On the flip side, he is causing a healthy amount of discussion in the thread so I wouldn't be opposed to keeping
greg: We do agree on many points, including our opinions on zenith. I also liked the baseball analogy. I'd need to hear more from you before I can make a solid opinion though. So right now, a slight town lean, but closer to null.
xel: town. I felt a connect when I read his reads list for the most part. His thoughts, opinions, and feelings feel very genuine. Like zenith said, xel can also be a good asset to town assuming he is town, so I wouldn't want to lynch his regardless at this point.
myself: souper town, amirite?Comment
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Re: jTWG LXVIII (Gam hread) - Welcoe to
Ok, lunch time. that post took too long to write...I deserve a break~Comment
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Re: jTWG LXVIII (Gam hread) - Welcoe to
Guys my internet is out. I don't have enough data so I'm making this quick post. Hopefully it comes back before eod. Once again I'm really sorry and this is a really shitty position. If I'm still out of Internet then gl.Comment
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Re: jTWG LXVIII (Gam hread) - Welcoe to
Fluke or not last game is all the additional data besides this one that I have on you so I feel justified in using it to help my analysis. However I think it's bad play on my part and I'll do my best not to keep bringing it up.
Maybe I'm dumb then but that's how I feel at the moment. Regardless I don't think either you or Greg is in danger of being lynched so I'll have another day to reset my reads and reevaluate later.
Do you think my analysis is off in the sense that it's bad or something feels different?
Reading benguin's post now
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Re: jTWG LXVIII (Gam hread) - Welcoe to
Also unvote
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Re: jTWG LXVIII (Gam hread) - Welcoe to
Still reading ben's post but I just want to say that this is legit and it's not an excuse for inactivity at this point. Not saying we shouldn't lynch dfr but I'm not going to let this factor into my lynch decision and I would encourage the rest of you not to either.
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