TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

[psychoangel691]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

What if I said, Xiz/Plop/V is the wolf team?

I'm actually still pretty weary of plop but if V is a wolf I'd rather be rid of him first since he's steering the game. People just easily jumped on his wagon, I don't like that.

[blindreper1179]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

If V is your first choice then who are your second and third?

I've skimmed the thread, sorry for not fully reading, too much bickering. But how everyone is playing thus far, I'm not liking xig and gradeint, though please don't read into it too much, not much going with it.

[psychoangel691]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

Even though I'm wary of V I don't like how rapidly the counter - wagon formed

I can see that maybe psycho is taking advantage if cedo"s vote

Think I'm going to vote between the two if you

There's very little time left, not much choice but for it to be rapid at this point. I made some points against V before Cedo ever said anything but figured a vote would be worthless since everyone seemed to have trust in him. Now that I know there's at least a couple that are weary of him I have no reserve in voting on him.

[cedolad]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

Hi blind, quit being lazy, read the thread, post your thoughts. You wanted to play, now play.

[iluswirl]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

I've gotta go to work, but between the bandwagons I think v's is a stronger case.

Regardless, I don't want to screw it up so silvuh I wanna hear more from you. Safety, this is. I'll try to be on before deadline.

[YoshL]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

found the unvote

2-tsunfan - xiv, gradient
3-\/ - blindreaper, cedload, psychoanjel
3-psychoanjel - plopadop, \/, zelnya
1-xiv - tsunfan
1-silvu - iluswirly

charu, backpank, and silvu yet to vote

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

My vote is on nobody atm

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

silv is also yet to vote

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

..............Vendetta.............

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

Reluctantly

[YoshL]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

approx 2 hours til deadline

[blindreper1179]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

Hi blind, quit being lazy, read the thread, post your thoughts. You wanted to play, now play.

I will, I promise

[Charu]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

Swirl, what do you think of my statement?

What if I said, Xiz/Plop/V is the wolf team?

Do you think this could be a probable possibility at this point and time?

[cedolad]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

Okay, I wanna build this V case even bigger here we go:

You mean if psycho doesn't flip wolf right?

Anyway, I'm building a case. I haven't got much to go with, but I've reread the V essay and found some interesting things digging up on his wolf games. Most notably, the wolf chat from the first Matrix6 game.

Here it reads:

..
You may wonder why I voted you (and convincingly for that matter) so early in the stage. Seemed like it might have frazzled you a little. I was trying to tell you what I wanted you to do, trying to create early distance from you, and trying to get you acclimated to the pressure cooker feeling you're going to experience when you can't get away with it like you can on day 1.

See how you responded and see how people felt? Mostly they didn't notice. But even better than being mostly not noticed is being on the offensive. In the game of Go there is two flavors of move called sente and gote and essentially they distinguish with any given play whether you are reacting or you are causing a reaction. Am I being forced to respond or am I forcing others to respond?
..

Here I'm going to attempt to apply this excerpt to V's massive Xel/Psycho essay.

alright we're coming into day-end crunchtime and omega is flying in tonight so i'm going to lay out my cards on the table because i don't have time for dogfighting (even though its like my favorite thing to do)

day 1 is always bad and you always have little to work with so you're going with vague impressions. on day 1 though, it's always my preference to lynch the thing that has the wolfiest surface value and not spend extra effort really defending people's wolfy behaviors based on gut feelings, etc. people tend to spend more time worrying about being wrong on day 1 then they do worrying about being right, and i get that day 1 smacks you in the face when your gutreads are wrong but taciturn plays give taciturn results.

so i've cycled through some suspicions but the two i think are noteworthy are xelnya and psychoangel. probably leaning more towards psychoangel at the moment but we will see how things progress.

so for xelnya what i thought was suspicious was the following

V is being a lot different from last game which has me a little weary.

xelnya said this. I was like "okay. maybe i am, i guess it depends on how you look at it. i think i'm playing the exact damn same." so i tried to goad a response from him by focusing on his use of the words "a lot" which is strong language for a statement that has only got him "a little weary."

If it is a lot different can you articulate what is different? I feel a significant difference is the type you can easily articulate whereas a subtle difference is not, and if you want to call something suspicious it behooves you to be as specific as you can. The key word is you say I am being "a lot" different. Mostly I think this is the sort of vague bullshit that has nothing specific that, at this juncture, has already been stated a couple times.

It's almost like it's an extremely safe thing to say at this particular point in the game after many others have said it. Would you agree?

This is what I say. I was waiting for a response to this, I wanted to know what xelnya perceived as different. Clarifying this should have been easy considering the strong language used here. Am I being more aggressive, inquisitive? Is it simply a misread because of having a different name and avatar?

Then I also say this

Manti is hardly a meta-slut. I think you don't understand the "metas" of players well enough to make jokes with that level of hyperbole and colorful language.

which XelNya responds to within an hour, jokingly. my statement wasn't a joke. i was calling xelnya an idiot for having a "meta-read" of a player that i've played with for like 4-5 years that is wholly inaccurate.

the thing that interested me, though, was that xelnya's read on me changed

V - I don't know how to read you at all yet. You seem more town though because based long post.

Changing a read while not addressing your previous read. Okay. That's kinda fishy. "I got called out for holding opinion X so instead I'm going to hold opinion Y." It's important to note that these are at best wishy-washy reads that aren't going to be acted upon at all by anyone, so the change of tune without addressing the previous question seemed like a way to brush the question under the table. I have no idea why you would want to brush that question under the table since it isn't loaded unless you were making shit up and it would be really easy to just make more shit up, but doing so is itself inherently wolfy because it shows intention to mislead.

Anyways, this struck my nerve so I decided I would naked vote Xelnya. This was partly to observe reactions from people who had bitched about naked voting, but after I did it I realized that everyone just wanted to see what was going to happen as a result of the vote. Maybe I have an air of showmanship.

The thing though is that I publicly acknowledged the people I had noticed viewing and not responding

It's the sheer length of the silence and the number of people who rotate through viewing the current edge of discussion that interests me most. Seen a lot of charu, dbp, and xelnya over the last five hours.

And xelnya tacitly agreed that he had in fact been viewing and not responding:

So, what?

And responding with gifs, even. A way of saying "I don't give a shit what you think." I feel like proper responses as a human are things like "Why do you think I am a wolf?" or "Are you going to explain your vote?" Viewing for that long and finally coming to the conclusion to display indifference shows that the player is mulling over the accusation. It shows a difference between what the player's actions suggest their intention is and what their words say they are. That's pretty wolfy.

---

Anyways the other thing I thought was wolfy though was psychoangel's half-assed attempt to jump on xelnya, mostly because of her choice of reasoning. Let's review it briefly. Here is a chronological list of things stated about xelnya from the time he was voted to the time psycho voted (a breadth of ~30 posts)

me


cedolad


charu


and then we have psychoangel's vote


So it's very clear that attention has already been drawn to XelNya, but what's important to me is that it's very clear that attention has indicated to many people that Xelnya is wolfish.

Psychoangel's reading of this means that it's possible to slip a vote in UTR while people are more focused on XelNya and it shouldn't be too hard to get away with it. And if you're going to lynch a human getting in on vote 3 is a good place to be.

But it's the read of XelNya's behavior of "if I'm drawing attention to myself" because of gifs. That is chronologically out of order. XelNya had attention on himself well before the gifs were posted, so that reading of XelNya's intentions is inaccurate. There is no way that is the way XelNya is intending to play, and I don't think there's a way to misinterpret that given the sequence of events.

So I ask the basic question



and I got the nefarious double-down



I'm going to commit to my reasoning AGAIN even though the basic premise that I used to support my reasoning in the first place was wrong. I'm going to ignore causality in an attempt to appear consistent.

I was really trying to fish for a GOTCHA! with my last post but I'm running out of time here so that's what I have. If she had double'd down again it would have shown a continuity error in her logic if she selected something before the gifs post to support her reasoning. Sometimes I spam hadouken to try to win.

From a broader abstract perspective psycho seems more wolfy to xelnya than me because psycho is jumping on to what is clearly a strong bandwagon with weak reasoning at an opportunistic time but also because there has been weak or indirect defenses of psychoangel as well. Those are the sorts of spices and seasonings that lead to a tastier lynch.

psycho

i'll check in from time to time but i don't think i can commit to big plays or turnarounds anymore this phase so this is generally what i got up my sleeve

This can pretty much be put chronological verbatim. But to those who can't see it, I'll try to spell it out a bit better.

You may wonder why I voted you (and convincingly for that matter) so early in the stage. Seemed like it might have frazzled you a little. I was trying to tell you what I wanted you to do, trying to create early distance from you, and trying to get you acclimated to the pressure cooker feeling you're going to experience when you can't get away with it like you can on day 1.

xelnya

His sudden inclination of XelNya only appeared after I had said:

Oh you're referring to this. Again this had to do with me waiting for XelNya's response. I was just trying to get him to react to the idea of thinking he is a safe lynch and sort of prod him. He isn't making much development with other players at the moment so he's starting to get a null read or a slight lean in either direction.

Which was a response to:

So you are actively invested in posting in the thread but not allowing yourself to geminate feelings about the players?? Or... You want to contribute white noise even though it isn't helping you form conclusions?? Or...

During this time, his main focus was on DBP. After I mentioned his lack of development with other players, he makes this post (which was highlighted in his essay so I'll just quote that):

so for xelnya what i thought was suspicious was the following

V is being a lot different from last game which has me a little weary.

xelnya said this. I was like "okay. maybe i am, i guess it depends on how you look at it. i think i'm playing the exact damn same." so i tried to goad a response from him by focusing on his use of the words "a lot" which is strong language for a statement that has only got him "a little weary."

If it is a lot different can you articulate what is different? I feel a significant difference is the type you can easily articulate whereas a subtle difference is not, and if you want to call something suspicious it behooves you to be as specific as you can. The key word is you say I am being "a lot" different. Mostly I think this is the sort of vague bullshit that has nothing specific that, at this juncture, has already been stated a couple times.

It's almost like it's an extremely safe thing to say at this particular point in the game after many others have said it. Would you agree?

From V's essay:

Changing a read while not addressing your previous read. Okay. That's kinda fishy. "I got called out for holding opinion X so instead I'm going to hold opinion Y." It's important to note that these are at best wishy-washy reads that aren't going to be acted upon at all by anyone, so the change of tune without addressing the previous question seemed like a way to brush the question under the table. I have no idea why you would want to brush that question under the table since it isn't loaded unless you were making shit up and it would be really easy to just make more shit up, but doing so is itself inherently wolfy because it shows intention to mislead.

V's tasteful knock and prod of XelNya wasn't a suspicion, but instead it was a soft defense and redirection onto a new target; Psycho.

But even better than being mostly not noticed is being on the offensive. In the game of Go there is two flavors of move called sente and gote and essentially they distinguish with any given play whether you are reacting or you are causing a reaction. Am I being forced to respond or am I forcing others to respond?

Check this:

Anyways, this struck my nerve so I decided I would naked vote Xelnya. This was partly to observe reactions from people who had bitched about naked voting, but after I did it I realized that everyone just wanted to see what was going to happen as a result of the vote. Maybe I have an air of showmanship.

His direction onto Psycho was just that. He notices XelNya is being forced to respond, see's his partner in trouble, and forces Psycho to respond, and even the entire town at this point.

This is why I am not buying into his huge essay. I know the mindgames V plays, and it doesn't make sense to me. There's other instances where he contradicts himself I feel, but I can't pinpoint everything as I'm growing tiresome with this phase.

[cedolad]

Re: TWG CXXI Mis-speling BOM

my head hurts