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Re: TWG CLXXVIII: Danganronpa [Game Thread]
Well I don't really have any better ideas. The only person I'm sure isn't maf is chihiro and he could very well be the acqui.Comment
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Re: TWG CLXXVIII: Danganronpa [Game Thread]
If Mukuro isn't mafia I'm confused why they're getting so little attention....
....Half of Celestia's posts were about Aoi....you never mentioned Aoi until after Aoi died..........what were you even mindmelding about?
You thought you had a lead on Mondo and Yasuhiro having info they shouldn't...........and then random vote Leon.......makes total sense
You're such a perfect picture of blissful unawareness...it's practically a caricature........Originally posted by Mondo OwadaOriginally posted by Byakuya TogamiComment
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Originally posted by Mondo OwadaOriginally posted by Byakuya TogamiComment
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Re: TWG CLXXVIII: Danganronpa [Game Thread]
You thought you had a lead on Mondo and Yasuhiro having info they shouldn't...........and then random vote Leon.......makes total senseOriginally posted by Mondo OwadaOriginally posted by Byakuya TogamiComment
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Re: TWG CLXXVIII: Danganronpa [Game Thread]
If the missing kills are not due to Leon being blocked, we have a wolf team that seems to have failed every single night with avoiding the doc's save and/or with identity guesses...
The only thing Mukuro has been engaged with and seemingly genuine about...is not being acquisitioner...regardless of alignment she cannot even **** muster the effort to vote people for reasons besides placeholders...
If she's not being inactivity modkilled I will seriously consider her lynch on this basis.Originally posted by Mondo OwadaOriginally posted by Byakuya TogamiComment
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Re: TWG CLXXVIII: Danganronpa [Game Thread]
So I promised a Mondo case yesterday, and it here it is.
The Case Against Mondo
Mondo's play in this game can be largely characterized by three recurring behaviors: a mechanically unjustified fascination with the Identity Wolf role, single-minded aggressive player cases that are abandoned as soon as something more convenient comes along, and repeated OMGUS posting.
Where to begin? Mondo's cases and discussion betray an almost pathological fascination with the identity wolf. The thing is, there's no indication that it's been a particularly prominent role, or even had any effect at all. If we assume that the Acqui has been actively moving from player to player--and we know it happened the first night at least, given the Junko flip info--then there's been only one wolf kill per night. It stands to reason that this should be the factional kill—there's no indication that the ID kill isn't equally subject to block or doctor protection. But regardless of whether or not the wolf kills have been factional or ID (or both), Mondo has been built his world-building—and his overall persona—around the idea.
Most people accepted that the ID wolf is a thing and have, I would assume, either taken steps to conceal their identities, or just played and hoped they couldn't be identified. But Mondo felt the need to explain how bullshit the role was, as though he couldn't possibly be a wolf and was scandalized by this totally unfair mechanic.
“I can't be the ID wolf guys, because I don't know who's who. And because I hate that role. Check out how not the ID wolf I am!”
“but like I said I won't really know who's who this game”
So the previous post wasn't just a “I don't know who's who YET”—which is how I initially read it—but a full on “I can't figure out identities, you can trust me.” Of course, once it turned out that no one was concerned with that, suddenly it's easy to identify people and that's clearly what was happening at night.
Day 2
For someone so concerned with the ID wolf, it's curious that the possibility of misidentification never enters Mondo's mind. Instead, it obviously has to be that there was a block/doc save, almost as if he knew. It's also interesting how adamant he was on D1 that he was bad at the ID thing, but one that was safely past, he knew for sure who Celestia (who died) was, since it was convenient to his then-purpose.
I've harped on this concept before, but this whole mode of thinking is problematic. As far as I can tell, the ID kill is equally susceptible to blocks/saves. Even if one is 100% certain who Celestia is, the equal likelihood of a rolepower stopping the kill means that assuming an ID kill is 50-50 at best. Of course, Mondo's been preoccupied with that the entire game...
His reads expand to whatever is convenient to make a case; at that point, he also self-insulates, since “who would ever admit to knowing who someone was?” The point is, he goes from a self-claimed “I can't ID anyone” schtick to “it's totally obvious that...” on multiple occasions, despite his self-professed IDing limitations.
Again with this. I had problems with this yesterday, but it fits a troubling pattern of behavior. There's this obsession with the identity wolf, even to the point that it blinds Mondo to mechanical probabilities.
We're back to this post. Can someone's reads expand across the game? Sure. But Mondo's “who's who” keeps expanding as needed to pressure whatever case he happens to be pursuing.Comment
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Re: TWG CLXXVIII: Danganronpa [Game Thread]
So I promised a case against Mondo yesterday, and here it is, broken up into chunks that are still probably too big.
Mondo's play in this game can be largely characterized by three recurring behaviors: a mechanically unjustified fascination with the Identity Wolf role, single-minded aggressive player cases that are abandoned as soon as something more convenient comes along, and repeated OMGUS posting.
Where to begin? Mondo's cases and discussion betray an almost pathological fascination with the identity wolf. The thing is, there's no indication that it's been a particularly prominent role, or even had any effect at all. If we assume that the Acqui has been actively moving from player to player--and we know it happened the first night at least, given the Junko flip info--then there's been only one wolf kill per night. It stands to reason that this should be the factional kill—there's no indication that the ID kill isn't equally subject to block or doctor protection. But regardless of whether or not the wolf kills have been factional or ID (or both), Mondo has been built his world-building—and his overall persona—around the idea.
Most people accepted that the ID wolf is a thing and have, I would assume, either taken steps to conceal their identities, or just played and hoped they couldn't be identified. But Mondo felt the need to explain how bullshit the role was, as though he couldn't possibly be a wolf and was scandalized by this totally unfair mechanic.
“I can't be the ID wolf guys, because I don't know who's who. And because I hate that role. Check out how not the ID wolf I am!”
“but like I said I won't really know who's who this game”
So the previous post wasn't just a “I don't know who's who YET”—which is how I initially read it—but a full on “I can't figure out identities, you can trust me.” Of course, once it turned out that no one was concerned with that, suddenly it's easy to identify people and that's clearly what was happening at night.
Day 2
For someone so concerned with the ID wolf, it's curious that the possibility of misidentification never enters Mondo's mind. Instead, it obviously has to be that there was a block/doc save, almost as if he knew. It's also interesting how adamant he was on D1 that he was bad at the ID thing, but one that was safely past, he knew for sure who Celestia (who died) was, since it was convenient to his then-purpose.
I've harped on this concept before, but this whole mode of thinking is problematic. As far as I can tell, the ID kill is equally susceptible to blocks/saves. Even if one is 100% certain who Celestia is, the equal likelihood of a rolepower stopping the kill means that assuming an ID kill is 50-50 at best. Of course, Mondo's been preoccupied with that the entire game...
His reads expand to whatever is convenient to make a case; at that point, he also self-insulates, since “who would ever admit to knowing who someone was?” The point is, he goes from a self-claimed “I can't ID anyone” schtick to “it's totally obvious that...” on multiple occasions, despite his self-professed IDing limitations.
Again with this. I had problems with this yesterday, but it fits a troubling pattern of behavior. There's this obsession with the identity wolf, even to the point that it blinds Mondo to mechanical probabilities.
We're back to this post. Can someone's reads expand across the game? Sure. But Mondo's “who's who” keeps expanding as needed to pressure whatever case he happens to be pursuing.Comment
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Re: TWG CLXXVIII: Danganronpa [Game Thread]
At the same time, his cases almost always follow the path of least resistance. He jumped on Aoi right away, and pushed hard on that, despite the fact that the reason for the vote was a relatively innocuous comment early on the first day. Now, that's actually somewhat understandable—there's not a lot to go on at first, and Aoi's statement in question was, at best, awkwardly expressed. I can understand how it drew suspicion, but Mondo hammered that point repeatedly. This is straight up tunneling.
This is a huge proportion of posts dedicated toward Aoi. That's fine, I guess, except their case never changes, because Aoi hadn't really posted since their initial problem post. This was just continuously repeating the same basic claims, safely hammering the point.
When Aoi posts a long response, Mondo backs off. That's understandable...but why such a huge volume to the point of obsession if a mere response merited an unvote?
Even after the unvote, Aoi remains apparently preoccupied with Aoi, although at least these instances are in response to to discussion from other players (Byakuya, Junko).
Later, he conveniently town reads the only known wolf almost out of nowhere.
And, of course, after cooling on their Aoi read, ends up back on Aoi for his actual vote—conveniently protecting Sayaka.
His reason for returning to Aoi, predictably, is...vague.
At the same time, he chooses to view Aoi's first day behavior as an anti-ID tactic, which Mondo considers problematic apparently despite claiming to be doing the same thing himself earlier in the day.
It also, again, speaks to his preoccupation with identity and identification. And although he expressed a general willingness to be talked elsewhere
That didn't materialize satisfactorily for him, even though both other wagons turned out to be non-town. Ultimately, Mondo committed to his Aoi vote, helping to generate the coinflips he claims to hate.
***
His case against Leon also feels somewhat tunneled.
An interesting switch, considering he previously found that sort of behavior offensive.
And this plus his ID world building is apparently his whole case there.
Other people have made more compelling cases against Leon than this, but he's been vacillating between the two of us, despite the fact that he's been surprisingly reluctant to actually dive into Leon's posts. Path of least resistance.Comment
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Re: TWG CLXXVIII: Danganronpa [Game Thread]
Now, let's move to the topic of OMGUS.
Even his return to Aoi suspicion was premised around a slight call out.
His strongest scumread besides Aoi was due to OMGUS.
OMGUS OMGUS OMGUS.
As soon as my challenges toward Mondo start making him uncomfortable, he becomes suspicious of me.Comment
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Re: TWG CLXXVIII: Danganronpa [Game Thread]
Now, this was a long summation of everything I found objectionable about Mondo while running through his game with a fine-toothed comb, and a few things here and there are minor or exaggerated dings. There are certainly sections (which is to be expected in a hundred posts) that feel towny to me. But the thing is, beyond the three themes hit above, there feels like an awful lot of accusations and work and directions with surprisingly little actual detective work. There doesn't seem to be any real effort to dig in and figure out who's a wolf. Even his most recent post
basically just throws his suspicions to the winds. I feel kind of bad harping on this one, because I actually understand the feeling. Parsing Mondo so closely makes you see a lot, the good and the bad, and I kind of hate the meta of rigid certainty that this game seems to demand. But in this case, it speaks again to that reluctance to push. Maybe it's just that activity has dropped way off, but it's amazing how much more of a central theme there was to his first day, with the ID stuff and especially the hammered case against Aoi. If he could manage so many Aoi posts based on a single sentence, where's that attention now, with so much more information available?
Even the Chihiro thing feels like a copout. Chihiro would be a very poor choice for acquisition—they're the only town power role remaining and the doctor is gone (meaning a likely nightkill target going forward, presumably dangerous to the Acqui), and we've already sort of established that Danganronpa can at least be used as a logic check against them (in the sense that a correct answer doesn't clear them, but a wrong/slow answer condemns them). Both of these factors would make Chihiro a poor Acqui target.
It's possible, ultimately, that Mondo is a town player who doesn't know how or where to direct his energies in a game where so many players have been inactive, and where no one really seems to be jumping out as an obvious wolf. But his behavior has major problems that on balance point away from town, and make much more sense as a wolf.Comment
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Re: TWG CLXXVIII: Danganronpa [Game Thread]
The above is a long summation of everything I found objectionable about Mondo while running through his game with a fine-toothed comb, and a few things here and there are minor or exaggerated dings. There are certainly sections (which is to be expected in a hundred posts) that feel towny to me--mostly a sense of restless probing. But the thing is, beyond the three themes hit above, there feels like an awful lot of accusations and work and directions with surprisingly little actual detective work. There doesn't seem to be any real effort to dig in and figure out who's a wolf. Even his most recent post
basically just throws his suspicions to the winds. I feel kind of bad harping on this one, because I actually understand the feeling. Parsing Mondo so closely makes you see a lot, the good and the bad, and I kind of hate the meta of rigid certainty that this game seems to demand. But in this case, it speaks again to that reluctance to push. Maybe it's just that activity has dropped way off, but it's amazing how much more of a central theme there was to his first day, with the ID stuff and especially the hammered case against Aoi. If he could manage so many Aoi posts based on a single sentence, where's that attention now, with so much more information available?
Even the Chihiro thing feels like a copout. Chihiro would be a very poor choice for acquisition—they're the only town power role remaining and the doctor is gone (meaning a likely nightkill target going forward, presumably dangerous to the Acqui), and we've already sort of established that Danganronpa can at least be used as a logic check against them (in the sense that a correct answer doesn't clear them, but a wrong/slow answer condemns them). Both of these factors would make Chihiro a poor Acqui target.
It's possible, ultimately, that Mondo is a town player who doesn't know how or where to direct his energies in a game where so many players have been inactive, and where no one really seems to be jumping out as an obvious wolf. But his behavior has major problems that on balance point away from town, and make much more sense as a wolf.Comment
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Re: TWG CLXXVIII: Danganronpa [Game Thread]
The day ends again tonight and the thread has been quiet for hours. I see Byakuya and Sakura lurking so...yeah.Comment
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Re: TWG CLXXVIII: Danganronpa [Game Thread]
I don't much like two things about this kyoko posting:
1) it's against a single person almost entirely despite there being 2 wolves in the game + aqui
2) it feels mostly in response to the pressure; that is to say, I doubt this effort would have come without being pressured into it...
The reason I don't like point 1 is that technically this is very close to mylo potentially (if aqui is a town right now, then they go into a town, and the wolves get their 2 kills, we're down to 5 with only 2 town which might be parity actually...? Idk how it works)
Basically it's at the point where wolves only really need to push for one mislynch potentially to win which is... yikes
Its not guaranteed of course and there's a lot that is out of our control etc but the notion is still there... also helloComment
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