TWG XV - #twgxv (Humans Win. Huzzah.)

[Kilgamayan]

<chardish> Yeah, so Tps has been doing this.
<chardish> I'll send the log to all of you.
<Tps222> WTF
<Tps222> I didn't do anything
<mead1> ...
<blahblah18> Hahahaha
<JurseyRider734> Give me more lines :<
<Neonatrias> Looks good enough to me.
<Tps222> Okay yeah I did it
<Tps222> But chardish was doing it too
<whorlichan> Yeah, right.
<Tps222> No, really, we were working together!
<nforcer06164> Where's Kilga with the ban?
<chardish> Odd.
<chardish> Normally he's faster than this.
<Kefit> He's probably at 4chan
<Kefit> Now is not the time to bother him
* Tps222 (~tps@12.573.462434.29802) Quit (Killed (NickServ (Ghost command used by: Tasselfoot)))
<Tasselfoot> There, problem solved
<alainbryden> Looks like someone forgot to change his pass
<talisman> Hahaha
<JurseyRider734> Seriously, you don't use me enough in the story

---

It is now Night 3. PMs from those who I require them of, please. Psychic, you will recieve your report at the beginning of Day 3, assuming you live to see it.

[Kilgamayan]

Day 2.9~

<HansSky> hay guys
<HansSky> wuts goin on in dis channel
* HansSky was kicked my Kilgamayan (not u)
<GuidoHunter> lol
<GuidoHunter> u showd him
<chardish> Uh oh.
<whorlichan> Guido, stop fooling around.
<GuidoHunter> wut
<nforcer06164> That's just great.
* Kilgamayan sets mode: +b *!*@al64.ers.ihavenoideawherethefuckguidogoestocollege.edu
* GuidoHunter was kicked by Kilgamayan (Speak like a halfway intelligent human being please.)
<Kilgamayan> Guess our job isn't done.
<JurseyRider734> I WILL NOT BE DENIED

---

blahblah18
nforcer06164
JurseyRider734
chardish
Tasselfoot
flypie743
whorlichan
talisman
Kefit
mead1
Neonatrias
alainbryden
Matthew4444

It is now Day 3, and GuidoHunter has been killed. There are 13 of you left, so 7 votes is an insta-lynch.

You have 72 hours (same time Sunday night) from this post to vote. Look at the time stamp of this post in case you're not sure when that is. Just as a reading test, any and all people who ask me in private when the day ends will be removed from the game immediately, no matter who they are or whether they were joking or serious. I am tired of you morons not reading for yourselves. I don't post this just to see myself write.

[talisman]

I want to know what happened with the seering before I vote, but I highly doubt tps faked all that shit on the spot. So either chardish or alain gets my vote most likely today.

[JurseyRider734]

Guido was mildly on my suspicions list. I guess that was probably because he didn't put in as much input as he usually does. I have some things to talk over with Tass, then i'll put my vote on who I know will get it.

[Tasselfoot]

Any info I get from the seer/psychic won't be revealed until tomorrow, to protect their identities.

And, thank you wolves... Guido was on my suspects list still.

[User6773]

I suppose I have to defend myself against TPS' allegations last night, seeing as I wasn't around to do it myself. : /

I must say, TPS, the celerity with which you acted is impressive. You had about 45 minutes after your fatal slip-up in which you used to forge that conversation. You must have busted your arse in gear pretty immediately to get it done that quickly. Impressive, but still hopeless. I find it very difficult to believe that people would accept your offering even after I posted a screenshot of your slip-up.

I'm willing to bet that it's one of your wolf friends who forged that conversation, not you, as frankly I don't think you're smart enough to do it. My best guess was that it was Guido, seeing as last game after I died he was already working on a plan that involved a forged AIM conversation with me, and this would probably seem pretty natural to him after working on it for last game. But he's dead now, so I don't know who's responsible for it.

Let's begin with a long numerical list of why you, TPS, are so full of shit that most pedestrians would mistake you for a portajohn.

#1 Hopefully the psychic report is coming back now and confirming that you were, indeed, a wolf. Occam's razor applies here. Propose for a minute that I am a wolf. What possible reason would I have to randomly and spontaneously turn on you, TPS?

I'll repeat this, bolded on its own line for emphasis.

Propose for a minute that I am a wolf. What possible reason would I have to randomly and spontaneously turn on you, TPS?

Since no one really suspected you to begin with before your slip-up, this would be the most corn-brained maneuver in the entire history of TWG.

#2 There are really 3 different scenarios here.
1) I am a wolf, you are a wolf.
2) I am human, you are a wolf.
3) I am human, you are human.

Scenario 2 is the most plausible, and Scenario 3 really isn't at question since the psychic knows by now you're a wolf.

In order for Scenario 1 to be true, we have to accept a lot of things:
1: That I am a wolf.
2: That you are a wolf.
3: That I would decide to jeopardize the wolves' chances of winning this game by trying to cut the number of wolves.
4: That I would decide to do so by forging a conversation and screenshot.
5: That I would decide to do so completely without your knowledge or consent.
6: That I would decide to do so knowing full well that, given the above, your natural reaction would be to publicly turn on me in anger and disgust. This point is the strongest. Who wouldn't turn on someone who did that?
7: That I would decide to sell you out through a public announcement, rather than insidious suggestions to known humans.

If we're really both wolves, and I decided to blatantly, boneheadely sell you out and cause you to lose the game, without telling you my plans, what kind of idiot wouldn't predict that your natural reaction would be one of disgust and anger? What kind of fucking plan is that? What kind of idiot wolf would do something like that?

I suppose this is why your counterattack works so well - it's really the only thing that's plausible to try to destroy my credibility at this point (since the psychic has no doubt confirmed who you really are by now.) I can really imagine you or one of your fellow wolves saying "Okay, okay..TPS is fucked, but I know a way we can take one of them down with us." And then we get this.

#3 Even your forgery has its profoundly stupid moments. You say you're not going to reveal who another wolf is, but if that's so, why do you have me claiming that we're in cahoots with Alain? You say you're not going to reveal the identity of "another wolf", but then in the forged conversation you have me mentioning Alain several times. Either these are mutually exclusive goals, or you're lying through your teeth in an attempt to get someone else lynched. This is the best defense of Alain's humanity we've gotten so far - and probably a pretty good indicator that you didn't write that conversation alone, TPS.

#4 Your forged conversation takes a 180 degree turn as soon as you get to the part that actually happened. All before that you have me acting like a wolf, but then all of a sudden I appear to be a normal human. It's like you wanted that part of the conversation to appear at least somewhat similar to the conversation that actually happened. What I wonder is why your version is weirdly similar to the real conversation - it's like you were trying to work around its constraints for some bizarre reason.

#5 Let's assume for a minute that your conversation is authentic and the real one that I posted was forged. If I'm going to forge a conversation with you, why on earth would I base it on an existing conversation? Why would I even have a conversation with you? Why wouldn't I just, y'know, make shit up? Once again, your bizarre, stupid theory that we're both wolves requires people to make a series of stupid assumptions that are anything but simple.

#6 And the biggest stupid assumption of all: you ask us to assume that you, a wolf, whose job it is to lie without ceasing, that you are telling the truth in an attempt to help us win the game. Absurd.

I am asking you all to please not insult my intelligence by voting for me. To do so suggests that you believe I would do something so completely and obviously retarded as what TPS has suggested.

[blahblah18]

heh fun post, this game actualyl got interesting, and I just finished my paper, so I'm free... and wow, ok...
I loved the post char.. I really did... until you brought up alain, you actually hurt yourself by doing it, because you bring up the best reason that you would make that forgery... and that would be to
A) confirm your humanity
B) replace alain's immediate lynching with TPS's

The one flaw I see with that plan though is the hope/assumption that the seer is alive, and since there can be only 1 MW, that that can at least be sorted out.. but then again, that makes me fear why spheroid was killed.. although I doubt he was seer.. except as I'm writing this.. I remember that Tass in fact is arrogantly retarded sometimes and could've had the guardian guard him instead of the seer.. so that's not entirely out of the question...

anyways, its late, I'm not entirely sure what to make of it. At least the game is interesting

but for now...postCount++

[nforcer06164]

Well, as I said before when TPS was so fiercely trying to condemn Chardish after his alleged slip-up: TPS is only trying to lure us away from the real wolves. His attack on Chardish makes no sense whatsoever. But the real question is: what do we do from here? Do we trust that Chardish and Alain are not wolves, ann look to others, or suppose this is what the wolves want, and therefore go for Chardish and Alain first?

Jurs's post basically saying, "I told you so!" about Alain really doesn't sit well with me. Suppose Jurs is a wolf. She could've had TPS say that just to "prove her point" and keep eyes off her. For that reason, I'm keeping a close eye on her for now.

[alainbryden]

None of this sits well with me, for the obvious reason that I'm not a wolf.

Naturally I would therefore think that Chardish, too, is innocent, but I'm still conversing with others about this and there are some things to figure out.

I'll tell you this, however. Yesterday, by the end of the day, I had felt confident that I had gotten through to people (especially Guido, infact) and was sure that the votes would soon be coming off me. There's no way I would have done something like that to save myself from being lynched, there was no way that it was necessary. As for Guido dying, Tass was suspicious of him because he was defending me so readily, and I found him helpful because of that, I really don't know why he was killed.

I'm really short for words right now, but for the record I will post the guide as of the closing of the thread last night.

[Tasselfoot]

For what it is worth....

2 wolves left.
Alain came back human.


I need to speak with Chardish before I make a post concerning him and anyone else I'm suspicious of.

[Tasselfoot]

OK... The witness incident happened last night.

Chardish claims Jurs is the wolf.
Jurs claims Chardish is the wolf.

I am ROYALLY confused.


Here is my logic on Chardish being a wolf and his responses:

[15:19] TasselFoot: now talk to me about twg.
[15:19] TasselFoot: spill your damn guts to me.
[15:19] this is chardish: i have a bit of information that will make me look suspicious as fuck if i tell you.
[15:19] this is chardish: but i think this is the piece of the puzzle we need.
[15:20] TasselFoot: go ahead
[15:20] this is chardish: the wolves have been trying to set up alain, i think.
[15:20] this is chardish: we have the jurs conversation.
[15:21] this is chardish: we have the ap/alain tie.
[15:21] this is chardish: we have alain coming up in the forged conversation.
[15:22] this is chardish: and through all this, jurs has been alain's primary opponent. she's been grilling him nonstop, even on stupid issues that don't make a lot of sense.
[15:22] this is chardish: selective reasoning and whatnot.
[15:22] this is chardish: it's seemed too overzealous to me the whole time.
[15:22] TasselFoot: ok
[15:22] this is chardish: and now i think i know why.
[15:22] this is chardish: jurs is a wolf. last night i witnessed her killing guido.
[15:23] TasselFoot: no mention of it in your post...
[15:23] this is chardish: i know. i want to keep quiet about it.
[15:23] TasselFoot: k. i already knew about it.
[15:24] this is chardish: right now half the game already thinks i'm a wolf. if i mention that i witnessed somebody, it's not going to help my case.
[15:24] TasselFoot: well, jurs already told me about it.
[15:24] this is chardish: because people are going to think that means i'm a wolf, even though being involved in the witness event tells you nothing about a person's race.
[15:24] TasselFoot: all it says is that 1 of the 2 remaining wolves is either you or jurs
[15:24] this is chardish: right.
[15:25] TasselFoot: i gotta say....
[15:25] TasselFoot: i think its you.
[15:25] this is chardish: : (
[15:25] this is chardish: why, michael.
[15:26] this is chardish: if you buy what TPS is saying, then essentially you're accusing me of being the biggest TWG fuckup ever.
[15:26] this is chardish: i'm pretty insulted by this...especially coming from you.
[15:26] this is chardish: i didn't realize you held me at such low esteem : /
[15:28] TasselFoot: TasselFoot: 2. TPS is not a complete idiot, to the likes of matt, demon, spheroid. I can't see him screwing up THAT badly to Chardish.
TasselFoot: 3. Chardish posts a fucking SCREENSHOT of the convo.... which is just flat out odd.
TasselFoot: No one else has posted or really considered posting a screenshot.... but, if the whole thing is faked to begin with, the screenshot gives extra proof.
TasselFoot: 4. TPS' whole convo with chardish.... there just wasn't time for him to come up with and impliment the idea to use "Find All... Replace" on the convo to trick Chardish
TasselFoot: 5. Somehow, Chardish doesn't have the conversation saved.... yet he has random 1 liners that I've said 2 months ago saved.
TasselFoot: He logs EVERYTHING
TasselFoot: 6. Chardish waits 25 minutes to post the conversation he had with TPS. why?
TasselFoot: Only reason I can see is because he needed the time to fake the screenshot.
TasselFoot: 7. Why does Chardish continue talking to TPS 11 minutes later like nothing happened?
[15:29] this is chardish: 1) if i was really a photoshop wizard like you suggest, couldn't i have faked the screenshot hours in advance and posted it at exactly the right time?
[15:30] TasselFoot: but the conversation didn't happen until 20 minutes before
[15:30] TasselFoot: is that the only thing you can dispute?
[15:30] this is chardish: no, i'm going down the list. let me finish.
[15:30] TasselFoot: it starts with 2
[15:30] this is chardish: what's 1?
[15:30] TasselFoot: i gave up on #1... it wasn't solid.
[15:31] TasselFoot: and you responded to 3, skipping 2
[15:31] this is chardish: allright. let's start over.
[15:31] this is chardish: 2) TPS is stupid. Even if you buy his whole story, it's stupid that he would claim he wasn't going to reveal "another wolf" and then implicate alain in his fake conversation.
[15:32] this is chardish: 3) not odd at all. i figured that after the jurs/alain incident where they were both being selective about the conversation, it was more important to have concrete proof that i didn't cut anything out.
[15:32] this is chardish: how ironic that now that's exactly what i'm being accused of.
[15:33] this is chardish: i don't understand #4
[15:33] TasselFoot: issues with the timing.
[15:34] TasselFoot: more subjective.
[15:36] this is chardish: 4) responding to general timing issues, TPS had 45 minutes after his slip-up to use to create a fake conversation with whatever accomplice he chose. that's a long long time. it probably would have been smarter to post the screenshot quicker, but i was pretty giddy and trying to calm myself down and figure out the best COA. and even then you know how busy i am online. TWG is a priority for me but it is certainly not my first priority - especially when i had to leave for work in about a half hour.
[15:37] TasselFoot: you waited 25 minutes. then within 20 minutes of that (10 of which i was grilling him), he is focused enough to come up with all that?
[15:41] this is chardish: you know i don't think he acted alone.
[15:41] TasselFoot: ok
[15:41] TasselFoot: alain wasn't online
[15:41] TasselFoot: blah wasn't online
[15:41] this is chardish: (sorry, was pulled afk)
[15:41] TasselFoot: who helped him?
[15:41] this is chardish: was jurs online?
[15:41] TasselFoot: yes
[15:41] this is chardish: ding ding ding! we have a winner.
[15:41] TasselFoot: you think she came up with that??
[15:42] this is chardish: perhaps. it's not very good.
[15:42] TasselFoot: keep going on the list though. you have a few more.
[15:42] this is chardish: right.
[15:43] this is chardish: 5) once again, it's a far different story when my dad pulls the plug out of the wall. this one isn't the first conversation i've lost for such a reason, and i've even lost others in the past. my logs are mostly complete, but they are not comprehensive.
[15:44] this is chardish: 6) to fake a screenshot in photoshop would take a lot longer than 25 minutes. i held out because i was still deciding upon the best course of action.
[15:44] TasselFoot: could have come to me right away.
[15:44] TasselFoot: and, you only changed about 2-3 words.... if you did.
[15:45] this is chardish: yeah, if only i were as smart as you, tassie. ; )
[15:46] this is chardish: i imagine that was a smart consideration on the part of the forgers, to include the real conversation and alter a couple words to make the screenshot at least somewhat implausible.
[15:46] this is chardish: 7) I didn't. once again, this was part of the forgery, and the fact that you ask this question suggests that you're putting more faith in the forgery than the facts.



Also there is Chardish's logic on Jurs being a wolf, which seems solid reasoning to me, whether she is or not.


This is what Jurs said to me:

xTrialandErrorx: TASS
xTrialandErrorx: TASS
xTrialandErrorx: IM THE WITNESS
xTrialandErrorx: CHARDISH IS A WOLF.
TasselFoot: ok...
xTrialandErrorx: ...what?
TasselFoot: just the thought is still there that Chardish is the witness... and you're the wolf.
TasselFoot: so please, do not mention it to anyone
TasselFoot: don't post about it
TasselFoot: let me talk to chardish first
xTrialandErrorx: I wasn't. Okay.
TasselFoot: so i want to see his reaction, etc... cause, now clearly one of you two is a wolf.
xTrialandErrorx: Yeah well its not me.
TasselFoot: well, alain was seered. as soon as i can get that report, we should have some good information.
xTrialandErrorx: Swear to God. If i end up a wolf at the end of the day, I will give you my address and you can send me anthrax.
xTrialandErrorx: Alright
xTrialandErrorx: Good thing you seered alain instead of chardish.
xTrialandErrorx: Two in one.
TasselFoot: no point seering chardish. if he's a wolf, he is the master.
xTrialandErrorx: What if alain's the master, if he's a wolf.
TasselFoot: but... chardish is just ASKING to be seered, with everything tps said.
xTrialandErrorx: Yeah true.
xTrialandErrorx: Bah. If alain comes back as human then i'm going to look wolfish, but i swear to god. chardish is a wolf.
xTrialandErrorx: Eh
xTrialandErrorx: Alain's a human, isn't he? ;\
TasselFoot: i said i'd post about that tomorrow.
xTrialandErrorx: :\
TasselFoot: not too many people online now... so if i DO know something now... wolves might be able to peg who it is down to 2-3.
xTrialandErrorx: Well i swear i'm the witness
TasselFoot: so, i'll wait until tomorrow... which gives all the HS kids time to PM me from school without logging into AIM
xTrialandErrorx: i'll copy and paste the PM to you
xTrialandErrorx: yeah.
TasselFoot: no you won't
xTrialandErrorx:
TasselFoot: 1. against the rules = 2 game ban. 2. you could EASILY edit it.
xTrialandErrorx: copying and pasting PM's isn't always against the rules.
xTrialandErrorx: The hosts say it at the beginning of the game.
xTrialandErrorx: I remember last game they were like
xTrialandErrorx: "YOU CAN SHOW PEOPLE YOUR PM BUT THATS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY"
TasselFoot: i don't remember that...
xTrialandErrorx: I do.
TasselFoot: you didn't play last twg
xTrialandErrorx: right.
TasselFoot: maybe in aperson's game... but the even after he said that, TWC overruled him.
xTrialandErrorx: Oh.
*** "xTrialandErrorx" signed off at Wed May 11 23:34:00 2005.
*** You have been disconnected. Thu May 12 08:06:50 2005.
*** "xTrialandErrorx" signed on at Thu May 12 14:52:50 2005.
xTrialandErrorx: Chardish's post: He stated more than once how retarded it would be for him to do this, and by making everyone think this, they wouldn't vote for him and he could get away with it. He's a wolf, I don't even have to explain it because i'm the witness.
TasselFoot: i still need to speak to him
TasselFoot: he logged in and went afk right away
TasselFoot: and in his big ass post last night, he didn't mention the witness at all
xTrialandErrorx: Do you have any kind of trust in me that i'm telling the truth?
TasselFoot: i'll post once i talk to chardish
xTrialandErrorx: Alright.
TasselFoot: regardless, if we lynch chardish today and it comes back that he was human, you're dead tomorrow.
xTrialandErrorx: if he's the master wolf, he comes back human anyways or no?
xTrialandErrorx: I've never played a game with a master wolf.
TasselFoot: not to the psychic
xTrialandErrorx: Alright
xTrialandErrorx: Then lynch him.
TasselFoot: patience.
xTrialandErrorx: He'll come back wolf :P
xTrialandErrorx: mead1 also voted for spheroid on day 1, as did Chardish. that's it, really.Tps voted for flypie.
xTrialandErrorx: can I tell alain i'm the witness. because if he didn't come back wolf...then i guess i'm safe to tell him, right?
TasselFoot: no
TasselFoot: he could be mw... plus, i want to talk to chardish before any info on the witness comes out
xTrialandErrorx: Oh, alright.
xTrialandErrorx: I'm not going to even post yet, because I can take everything in chardish's post and turn it around against him. He'd know I was right, and would get suspicious that i know he's a wolf.
TasselFoot: i'm aware...
TasselFoot: and, yea. i'd put it 90% that chardish is the wolf. if not more.
TasselFoot: from my outside looking in.
TasselFoot: i already have my evidence written up
xTrialandErrorx: Alright.
xTrialandErrorx: Once you talk to him
xTrialandErrorx: can i tell the people that we know are humans that i witnessed chardish?
TasselFoot: no.
TasselFoot: i already told the blues.
xTrialandErrorx: Oh and supposedly according to the PM chardish was about to wolf me last night but switched to guido.
xTrialandErrorx: oh okay
TasselFoot: ok.... he did what is expected. i'll have a post within the hour
xTrialandErrorx: Alright.
xTrialandErrorx: which was what?
TasselFoot: he accused you of being the wolf
xTrialandErrorx: Haha
xTrialandErrorx: you told him i was the witness?
TasselFoot: no
TasselFoot: well, yes. afterwards.
TasselFoot: i let him tell me
xTrialandErrorx: Tell you that he witnessed someone?
TasselFoot: that he witnessed you
xTrialandErrorx: Ah
xTrialandErrorx: and that means what?
TasselFoot: that one of you is a wolf.
TasselFoot: and the other is human.
xTrialandErrorx: Yeah.



And, the only other thing for Jurs is that on either page 1 or page 2, she has a post that gives about 2 sentences attacking aperson.



I am honestly completely confused as to which one is the wolf and which is human. I want to be right about this choice people. One of them IS a wolf.

[JurseyRider734]

To everything in Chardish's post:

He wants you guys to think that pulling a stunt like that would be so retarded that he wouldn't do it. That way it makes him not look suspicious so he could pull it off. Don't let it slip easily. If we lynch chardish today, and he comes back in the seer report as human, you guys can kill me, and you can have my address to personally kill me or send anthrax or something like that. This is just how confident I am that he's a wolf. Hell, I don't even have to be confident because I know that i'm a human and I know that he's a wolf.

I'm sure if chardish said the same, he'd be lying.

And he knows that.

[nforcer06164]

This is the way I see it, after I thought about it during the last period at school.

Jurs, after thinking about it, is a less likely wolf. My suspicion on her has dropped. I think Chardish is the wolf. But, if he is, then Alain is almost undoubtedly a wolf with him. My reasoning is this: Chardish set TPS up, and TPS didn't really know about it. Why would he do this? To get the votes off Alain, who in this case is the Master Wolf, and shed off someone less useful (TPS). I don't think there'd be any other reason, if Chardish is indeed a wolf, to do what he did to TPS, ESPECIALLY if Alain is not a wolf.

Particularly thinking that Alain is the Master Wolf in this situation, I'm going to vote for him. In hopes that I am right, the seer will take a look at Jurs tonight and find out if she is a wolf or not. If she comes up human, then Chardish is undoubtedly the wolf. If not, then we're back to where we started.

[Tasselfoot]

nForcer.... worry about Alain tomorrow. Today is solely about Chardish/Jurs...

[JurseyRider734]

I'm going to go ahead and put my vote on chardish for obvious reasons.