TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

[inDheart]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

Bolded is another subjection to a meta read that I already commented that should be thrown away.

I haven't seen the "normal" amount of work you put into a game yet which is why I'm pressuring to see more from you, not pressuring to find out if you're a wolf or not because I'm pretty sure you're town here.

at least you're consistent about being eager to throw away meta

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

@indheart, when you're done making reads on everyone, if you could quote them all in one post, that would be most helpful

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

otakon is over and I'm flying home tonight

[MixMasterLar]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

Even without reading him as a wolf, he deserved to die and you know this. It's bad enough we have one completely inactive person that hinders town and he was also hindering town with his bullshit. I believe by what Sunfan said we still have what, three mislynches? You care to propose to use one of them on me?

This is a very bad reason. If you think that there are great chances that he might flip a wolf, that's gravy. But if you think his play style as town was hurting us? If you thought he was VT you could have easily ignored him for the whopping hour or two it took for him to forget the game was running and leave again.

And YoshL did bring up a good point, Town Zenith goes for big plays. To add on to what he said, I remember reading Turbo II and you did that hilarious plan of claiming Cop that backfired, and in Turbo III you basically picked the one guy that got on your nerves (Which was me; even admitted in that game that it was from having OMGUS syndrome) and went super HAM on him until he flipped. None of that has come from you so far this game.

And before you ask: No, no I will not throw out your old Meta.

I'll go back to your's and YoshL's little spat here later on because I think it could be telling, but I wanted to address this first:

Is it such a bad thing that I want to do this? To take everything at face value from what's posted now rather than gain the context and biases of the previous phase? Everyone has their reads, their biases towards the other players; I do not. If the wolf is hiding amongst everyone's townreads from a previous phase, who's to say I can't figure them out with having a clear view from the one day? If you want to hate on me for it, go right ahead, but I think that this style could be beneficial.

Assuming you're town, you'll be lost whenever someone cites an old post, and won't have any context of it aside from the context being given to you by someone else (Which may or may not be a good thing). It also means we have to set around and wait for you to form reads on what's going on right now, which is just time consuming.

Buuuuuut if you're a wolf, well that's pretty beneficial for you, now ain't it? You have a great excuse to not be active and you can even toss bullshit ideas out to see if they gain any traction. If they do, great; if not, hey how could you know? You started D2, can't hate on you for that!

Basically the only real benefit to you from this viewpoint comes only if you are wolf.

10. MixMasterLar town

- post count theory has some merits, but it's weird to me to hammer so early on it d0, even voting wab in a mistake
- ...but honestly i think pinging the inactives would confuse your own application of that theory, and if i recall, your follow-up has used the same post count picture which is dated now, unless your point is that halfway through d0 tells all

1) It was interesting to see who felt pressure to post more after the postcounts where pointed out (IIRC we got almost all of SunFan's post after I made it into a deal) but alot of folks didn't really feel the need to post anymore. Since I valued people posting more over the theory I pinged folks (which is when we got YoshL posting at like 3 times the rate he was).

2) You remember incorrectly. Unless you mean later on when I posted the old one, color coded, for Mashi's benefit to check how it had all turned out. In which case, uh yeah, yeah of course the the point of that was referencing how d0 did in actually telling anything.

- his top 5 town from yesterday is more like a list of people who offended him the least to put in there

Expect YoshL and Gradiant are on that list, so this point is basically founded on bullshit.

[MixMasterLar]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

YoshL I want you to know that I caught that you insinuated I was a retarded kid in you're recent reads list.

I'm going to cry to me mum about it later because of it.

[inDheart]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

today's Post Writing Background Noise(tm) is Classical Music for Studying and Concentration

15. Charles Claythorne town -> null

- had a decent discussion with AA about me and whether my first unvote expressed particularly wolf-like qualities, which i think is pretty perceptive because it helped bring more focus to AA's vote reason
- had done some Appeal to Sunfan very early on, of which the below seems particularly egregious from his first reads dump:

XelNya - I originally had him as Slightly Human because I liked his thoughts in his long post (particularly the eagerness and bluntness he had about certain reasoning for suspicions, namely again AragakiAyase and MixMasterLar). I bumped him up a tier because sunfan also mentioned somewhere as reading him Human, and I think it's an indication that he is indeed probably Human.

- voted for Charu d0, which started as a call to get his act together but snowballed from there in terms of reasoning. in general he was really good about keeping us updated with his thoughts on this day. also in general he's not moved by things that just appear to be blind effort - he mentioned he's seen wolves put in the same kind of work that charu did just to seem invested and relatively townlike.
- showed a lot of ambivalence about the d1 lynch, winding up on wab because he didn't like wab's conversation with sunfan...somehow (still not too clear on the details of this)
- he hasn't pushed particularly hard in directions of his own after d0, and this may just be because he hasn't had the time to go read everything and, say, iso the inactive players like he meant to do

overall, he had a good d0 imo but his winning attitude has waned quite a bit since then. he mentioned that he likes to post complete thoughts before, but it certainly seems like he's been completing fewer thoughts lately.

16. YoshL town

- started out mostly playing defense because busy, but that led well into him ruminating on MML pretty deeply and running mental circles around him. MML has far and away been yoshl's biggest topic all game
- big block of thoughts looked okay, showing some secondary foci: dbp and zenith (both from meta)
- he and dbp had this thing going on where they both didn't seem instantly suspicious of each other for not playing like their usual selves, which boiled over near eod0 where they called each other on their play. this really reads like town vs town because they have strong expectations of each other that were not met up to then, be it by slight inactivity or inattention
- d1, in lieu of other things to discuss because people were being inactive, he pushed into speculation on the night kills, but got jumped on by sunfan. yoshl's side of it is still the one that makes sense to me, though - it's new information, why not talk about it
- he focused on xiz for a bit as well, again with an eagerness to be thinking two or three steps ahead
- favoring zenith at first for a lynch on d1 is consistent with his d0 thoughts; his wabby vote is more of a non-sequitur and he knows that
- he's aware of his own myopia from looking so hard at MML up to the current day, though

yoshl has been playing a rather self-aware and conscientious game since joining the thread proper, and while he's hit pretty hard on MML, he's showed a willingness to poke in other directions which has gotten more pronounced today

@sunfan other two reads posts below: (fixed the typo i mentioned, "reread" -> "first read" and removed the extraneous comment from the first post)

6. DaBackpack town

(i did this one in reverse post order and you can probably tell)

- fwiw i think dbp's entrance was hilarious, and the only one really calling attention to that flipped red (at least, the only one i remember, because xel never shut up about it lmao)
- he brings up yoshl's behavior and then elaborates on that (see below for more as well) earlier on d0, which is notable for his consistency later on calling this out
- he read into Mashi pretty hard in search of someone to push d0, calling him generally too neutral. gradiant called him out for this post, but i see it more as resignation that what he's saying isn't gaining much traction. in response to gradiant he comes back to yoshl and mashi. then he really pushes yoshl hard. (i have more to say on this later)
- but this post, one of his more recent ones (from d1), likes yoshl's point about MML's vigi focus potentially being a setup for a later vigi cover-up claim. yoshl has been pretty zoned in on MML, but DBP called the focus on MML "worrisome" on d1. (this is in contradiction to early d0 where he did not feel as good about MML and called him "my top wolf lean", but consistent with later d0 where he's iso someone else to look at)

i definitely see dbp as town, because his observations and focus have been consistent with trying to search out good lynch candidates - just because of the timing and with so many people wolf reading him, they didn't gain better traction.

9. _Zenith_ null -> wolf

- did a quality first read (honestly that's to be expected though)
- he (and DBP) probably put the most thought into tokzic's situation
- part of why i see you as more null, though (switching to second person because you're here as i write this), is after that you mostly zoned in on yoshiisland. sure that turned out okay. you're up front about not putting as much work in, but island is an interesting target to focus on when your previous day's impression was null -> town and even "who". sunfan was in the right to call you out about your second round of reads, really
- you don't get points for being right about xel when you gave up on xel's meta. you don't get points for being right about tokzic when you voted for the lynch in full support of gradiant, who called him scum for lying.

you just seem over-eager to go "hey look guys look what i did" when there are little mini contradictions in your play that belie the earnesty of your efforts.

10. MixMasterLar town

- yeah i'm still reading him as town but i'm dropping the "didn't read the setup" reason because it's stupid at this point
- if there's anyone i'm going to call "bad town" it's MML
- post count theory has some merits, but it's weird to me to hammer so early on it d0, even voting wab in a mistake
- ...but honestly i think pinging the inactives would confuse your own application of that theory, and if i recall, your follow-up has used the same post count picture which is dated now, unless your point is that halfway through d0 tells all
- he said this was his 4th game and claimed VT pretty organically, which i can see as a legit claim because of how voluntary it was
- ...but really failed to respond to yoshl in a reasonable, substantive way (hence my "MML sux yoshl rulz" post)
- however, i do see an eagerness out of him to solve the game, even if it doesn't seem to be doing much for his reads
- his top 5 town from yesterday is more like a list of people who offended him the least to put in there
- yet for his recent play, i like his tokzic push and his recap of the aftermath above about what we can learn from the people forcing insta there. still waiting to see how he feels today, but i like his hustle.

13. T-Force null

- just entered the game so nbtj yet
- so the following is a reread of ben:
- this one is probably my favorite penguin post, as it picked on red blaster for putting nothing on top of barely anything. the post that sunfan supposedly thought he was townie for just reads like utter fluff to me though, like it's something made of nothing
- he talked to MML about post count theory but most of his other posts are meme drivel and "sorry i'm not here"
- still wish i could have asked him about his charu vote, because it seems like his stated reason was borrowed straight from AA's iso, and he didn't have any previous engagement with the charu lynch squad's ideas. he certainly wasn't the first person to think "he can die" was weird

[inDheart]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

wow i should have spoilered that or something oops

tmw you get to close all the tabs you opened looking up stuff though...ahhh

[MixMasterLar]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

Names in no order within categories.

Scum Leans:
Zenith (recent posts)
InDHeart
T-Force (Less work is never good for town)

Null:
DaBackPack(A con is good alibi, people have a point about d0 EOD)

Town Leans:
Mashi
YoshL
TheSunFan


That's pretty much all the new content I can really bring ATM, other then Zenith and YoshL going at it the game has died down.

Which I know I ain't helping with at this point, but meh.

[inDheart]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

1) It was interesting to see who felt pressure to post more after the postcounts where pointed out (IIRC we got almost all of SunFan's post after I made it into a deal) but alot of folks didn't really feel the need to post anymore. Since I valued people posting more over the theory I pinged folks (which is when we got YoshL posting at like 3 times the rate he was).

2) You remember incorrectly. Unless you mean later on when I posted the old one, color coded, for Mashi's benefit to check how it had all turned out. In which case, uh yeah, yeah of course the the point of that was referencing how d0 did in actually telling anything.

1) "interesting" maybe, but i have a hard time seeing it as a short-term predictor - ben mentioned anyone who was planning to post in a particular way could just switch up their behavior once they saw that. pretty sure sunfan and yoshl seeming to post more after that was just them both being around the thread at those times tbh (yoshl was o!ming, for instance - you can look up the match schedule and xref if you like lmao)

2) yeah i mean the color one

Expect YoshL and Gradiant are on that list, so this point is basically founded on bullshit.

your defense on yoshl is literally "I don't notice anything weird with his posting"

gradiant is more plausible but still don't know why you said "Was going to wait for me and him to get back into it before locking him in"

positive examples would be nice if you have them

[T-Force]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

Where is Mashi?
Also, with all this silence, this may be easier to read the game than I thought... To D2~

[inDheart]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

i don't remember mashi anticipating his absence this time

things do come up but this is the first i remember him being gone for a whole 24-hour period

like, he's even posted from work before

[T-Force]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

Okay, read all of D2, and here are a few posts that stuck out at me.

Holy fucking shit

So I was right about Xel AND Yoshiisland

Hold on, let me get my post I worked on earlier today set into motion

This just seems weird.. especially early on. Possible trying-to-look-really-human post? It's something I see other people do as a wolf a lot.

-

I'm not so sure the last wolf is in tokzic/reuben though

I mean, you're right on this as well, but A.) hindsight, and B.) That doesn't exactly help your case because of it.

-

okay yeah dbp's going to be my fifth slot, because while he was active he dug up a good number of leads with info that's at least still valuable to keep in mind

Nice little sheep right there after an explanation as to why he might be silent. An explanation that, while understandable, is still kinda weak, but those are just my 2 pennies.

-

Friendly reminder that Phantoms are present now as of EoD yesterday!!

Was this necessary?

-

Specifically:

In addition, the following players have received phantoms:

Gradiant
Tokzic
DaBackpack
reuben_tate
Yoshiisland

Was this necessary v2?

-

Pretty sudden change if you ask me

Notable point from Gradiant there re: Lar.

-

i think tokzic lynch is both good and bad, but i think tokzic lynch is more bad than good, at least if i'm assuming things right.

Something in my gut is twisting reading this. Like, I feel there's another case of letting on more than what should be known. Although the entire day felt like Tokzic was playing as a really bad town and trying too hard to get a wolf-kill. Sounds familiar.

-

Never fucking mind I didn't see a miles attorney version until just now

Oi vei... Dumbtell?


-

I'm Athena Cykes, tokzic is lying about being last PR. His choice of PR to fakeclaim is neat as it gave credit to his playstyle and it made everybody completely back off of him, but yeah. No reason why a town would fakeclaim this role here, only result then is scum fakeclaim.

I can see the last PR outing to lynch you, but probably not this game. Real PR is smart as fuck right now.

Haaaaaaaah. Zenith might've been correct if Gradiant hadn't claimed and Tokzic was left to live. Convenient.

-

man i really wanna shitpost while we wait or something, but not so much that this discussion gets lost for anyone else that comes in and wants to vote

Complete disregard for the potential that they're wrong? Like, don't get me wrong, I can see why everyone thought the game might've been over, but something I've learned from my very first TWG game is never assume the game is over, or that you're safe because more than likely you're not.
(context: 9 players left in TWG 103, BDN places a vote assuming at least one wolf is dead and that there was no way all 4 were still alive. All 4 wolves gang-rush and win)

And, don't get me wrong, 2 points for not wanting to ruin discussion, but I get a vibe of wanting to not contribute after this from this post.

---

And that is all.
Nothing especially of note from Mashi, or sunfan, and there's a lot I don't like from Zenith.


Happy now~

[T-Force]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

PS. I beat Snowboard Kids with Nancy (the slowest character in the game). Holy crap, never again, please and thank you...

[T-Force]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

Anyway, I should mention that I'll be at work from 8 AM server time until sometime between 6 and 7 PM server time Tuesday till Thursday, and from approx. 7 AM server time until 5 server time on Friday.
So if I'm not posting much in that time frame, I'm sorry, but I'm away.
I will be back for EoDs so I'll do my best then.

[Charles Claythorne]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

i am here fam!!!

also hi t-force!!! (sun)

i'm sry inDheart, this might sound childish, but my laptop crashed 3 times while I was trying to open the thread today (probs because it's summer and it kept overheating) and I got mad so I didn't even bother trying to use it for longer than a few minutes for the rest of the day. but i'm in the dorm now and it's night and we also have ac so WE LIT except it's cold so i guess we're not lit??? confusing

but i'm here now and probs gonna stay up despite having work tomorrow and get the last wolf #REKT!!!!!!!!!