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Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD
I believe it but for the sake of logical completeness is it possible a Miles Edgeworth would come up as no threat of he got master wolf status?
Sunfan as wolf is super unlikely but I want to know if it's nonzero
Originally posted by MoogyOriginally posted by TWG Dan HedgehogComment
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Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD
I'M BACK, I DECIDED TO ROLLERSKATE TO THE LIBRARY AND I ALMOST DIED LIKE TWICE BUT I GOT MY BOOKS AND I'M READY FOR REAL NOW
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Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD
omgus, except he has a town read on yoshl
mind meld with yoshl about Zenith being "too correct"
but I can kinda of empathize with being spot on with a read but not being confident enough to advocate strongly for it
will need to look more at Zenith to see
Originally posted by MoogyOriginally posted by TWG Dan HedgehogComment
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Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD
somebody said that wolves would be the first to vote on tokzic, I disagree there
wolves know that Tokzic was town and that it would look really bad in case tokzic came back and was able to defend himself
don't think wolves tend to push strongly for mislynches, or at very least, they don't try to be first
i.e. I would look at who remained quiet or who didn't attack until later
tomorrow, now I sleep
Originally posted by MoogyOriginally posted by TWG Dan HedgehogComment
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Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD
Just woke up and plan on going back to sleep
Will comment on what I missed tomorrow morning
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Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD
"Was going to wait for me and him to get back into it before locking him in" = I was pretty sure he was playing his town game, but I knew he was going to respond angrily to something I had at that point recently said so I wanted to wait until we had our spat before making a reads list. For whatever reason, though, I decided to just go ahead and post it ahead of time. Of course Gradiant took offense.
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Call them gut reads, if you like.
I have nothing that can be considered scummy coming from YoshL except maybe his little hissy fit when he got pinged back d0, but when it's all said and done he's done more things I like then not. Recent example is him going after Zenith recently. That shit was bogus on Zenith's part.
(That said, insta'ing Tokzic looks bad no matter what, although I am much more interested in your response to me then his. Compared to the grand showing I gave him, you only got mentioned yet still seemed like you wanted to be defensive about it. Expected from YoshL, not expected from you. I was carious to see if Mashi would say anything but it doesn't look like he will.)
Back to the question at hand though: The same for Gradiant. He just picked someone who he thought was acting scummy, and hunted them down until they either give themselves up under pressure or found a new target later on. I didn't think that would be his wolf game, and him gunning for me for placing him on my towns list, like I said back then, made me confident I was right.
Which I was [/Zenithstyle Pride]
Zenith vs YoshL gave me the opposite impression, I actually felt worst about Zenith and a little better about YoshL. I addressed this above to InDHeart.
This is a waste of time, brohan. At least, focus on him last: there's enough of us to go around.Comment
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Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD
@MixMasterLar: I had just come back to the thread and saw people piling up on Tokzic. In most circumstances, I think I would have rather thought about it and made sure it was the lynch we wanted (I remember expressing a small doubt in my mind), but I decided to go with the flow and #yolo it!!! I like to think it's characteristic of me to be uncharacteristic of me sometimes tbhComment
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Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD
i saw the joke and took it!!!Comment
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Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD
VOTE COUNT
YoshL -> _Zenith_
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_Zenith_
X
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Yet to vote:
DaBackpack
_Zenith_
thesunfan
MixMasterLar
inDheart
Charles Claythorne
T-Force
Possess phantoms:
DaBackpack (+0.1)
T-Force (+0.1)
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Today's theme:
Originally posted by the sun fan
I'd be too tiny to be a bouncer
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Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD
So I decided to look through Yoshiisland and Xelnya's post first to see what they had to say about the remaining Players of the game.
also i have a rly extroverted roommate and he's awsm and all but he was talking to me for 2 hours and i got nothing done and it's 4:30AM hul...
btw i got a free school-owned bike (""free"") so i guess there's that. get #rekt school!!!
I feel like the tone of this post comes off as a bit... rude, I guess? I don't know how Yoshiisland plays as a Wolf, but I feel like most Wolves aren't going to take on such a negative tone against Partners. Also, possibly noteworthy, if Wolves could chat during the pregame, I think it might be potent that inDheart would have made it apparent that he wasn't exactly knew to the game - I don't feel like Yoshiisland would actively try to fake not knowing that if that happened. Anyway, the point is, I feel like this is evidence in favor of inDheart's humanity.
For similar reasoning as above, I feel like the post doesn't really come off as something one Wolf Partner would say to another, especially with Yoshiisland being new. Calling a post "inherently scummy" comes off as too extreme, methinks.
I don't feel like I can draw any comfortable conclusion from this, but this was apparently XelNya's first 'serious' vote of the game. I would think Wolves are less likely to vote for their Partners like this but idk
I've mentioned previously about how XelNya posted about something being wrong with Dabackpack from his entrance posts and then claims later to have missed his posts. Being self-conscious about themselves and their Wolf Partners, I think it's not so likely for XelNya to have forgotten his previous comment if he and Dabackpack were Partners.
In XelNya's big post here, there's a large emphasis on replying to many posts from Dabackpack and MixMasterLar. In particular, XelNya seems to be very averse about MixMasterLar to the point that he mentions one of his posts "pissing [him] off." He even jokes with a Yuru Yuri GIF that MixMasterLar is 'useless.'
He ends up placing a vote on MixMasterLar even, preferring it over the Charu lynch. And I think something of importance here is that MixMasterLar was one of the main developing wagons Day 0, and it was very possible for him to have been lynched. It's certainly possible for XelNya to have been bussing, but for him to have done so Day 0 and without any major reason to sounds very unlikely to me.
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Anyway, fam, the warmup part of the post is done, so now for a Classic Mashi Post (TM) reads list!!! Isn't this exciting? MixMasterLar and inDheart finally get to see a typical Mashi post!
MixMasterLar - I feel like I've mentioned it many times before, but I'm going to mention it again! [url=http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/vbz/showpost.php?p=4461693&postcount=257]A particularly Humany-sounding line from this post is his "This isn't something that a townie would really say." It just seems way too cocky to likely be stated by a Wolf imo. Furthermore, this statement was made regarding one of AragakiAyase's posts - XelNya and Yoshiisland both took a stance against his lynch, and while this doesn't mean the third Partner would do the same, I think it's somewhat telling that MixMasterLar would push so strongly on someone who, if he were a Wolf, knew was Human. I don't know how humble MixMasterLar is, but he's been facing a ton of criticism this game (unjustifiably imo, but I'm hoping he's not letting it get to him), and perhaps I'm reading too deep into it, but I feel like he would self-consciously try not to embarrass himself too much with that being the case; i.e. not be so cocky about implying AragakiAyase has to be a Wolf.
While not a major Humanyish thing to me, I liked this post where he replied to benguin about his suspicion of me. Mostly because he actually went through the trouble of reading and thinking about it enough to refute a point benguin. I think a Wolf would have potentially been more blunt about it. I sort of like the disconnected thought he has too when accusing AragakiAyase - feels like he only adds it as a following thought he has shortly after his posts rather than something premeditated. Just a tiny Human lean for that.
Also sort of like the "gotcha!" tone coming off of this post. I can sort of see a feeling of excitement of making a good find and possibly be on the trail of a Wolf from it. If you don't think that post itself really gives off that vibe, then take a look at this one which occurs a bit after. The sheer confidence of it comes off as very Human to me - he even adds at the end 'Is your Partner AA?' as if to validate both his reads for having found a pair.
I think something important to note is that it seems like MixMasterLar consistently appeared to believe there were only two Wolves in the game. As a Wolf, if he realized he had mistakenly believed there were only two Wolves in the game, I think he would have stated somewhere "Oh, I just looked at the Role List and realized I'm frivolous and misremembered the number of Wolves!" or something like that. It was mentioned Day 0 about his post that he might have been thinking he had 'two Partners, so there are two Wolves' but I don't buy it, namely because he clearly believed (or if he's faking, remembered to fake-believe) that there was a Wolf with Partner singular - not Partners. Now, as I just mentioned, he could just be faking this all the way, but it just doesn't seem as likely to me given how long he believed it. I think I've been discussing this point too long now, but as a final word on this - if there was a pregame chat for the Wolves, I think it would be pretty obvious that he ought to know there are three Wolves in that case.
Actually, I lied - one last thing about the previous topic! The disappointment and contriteness here after accusing Wineandbread for mistaken reasoning also comes off as sincere and Human to me.
Int he post where MixMasterLar asks for the less active posters to post more, he adds at the end "I don't want to seriously vote for someone before they have a chance to make known their presence, so please don't put me in that position guys," which I think is a Human sounding addendum!
Miscellaneous, but you've only played 3 games??? wth the heck, I thought you were a veteran lol
In his reads post, I feel like his reads of XelNya/Yoshiisland could sort of be written the way a Wolf would his Partners, but ehhhh. His post right after about his many null reads gives a Humany-vibe to me though.
I did not like his posts complaining about the Charu lynch and of Tokzic though. He said he was busy reading what he missed in the thread during Day 0 and was too preoccupied to complain about it then, but I feel like the delayed response is still sort of weird - I would have expected greater attention being paid at the last few pages during End of Day. His emphasis on having people explain their votes on Charu felt sort of like an artificial way of finding suspicion, but he never really pursued it that far.
I like that MixMasterLar decided to go through with his brief postcount analysis. Despite it having been an unpopular idea, he still decided to post about it later. I can definitely see a Wolf deciding to do it too, but I feel this is slightly more likely from a Human.
inDheart - A lot of his early posts came off as rather null to me. I remember in early game, I was slightly suspicious of him, but wasn't quite sure why, but I think it's because he was posting a lot and never really left a major impression on me. And it wasn't really because of lack of useful contribution, but because of difficulty to read, sort of? Anyway, I don't feel the same gut suspicion as I had before.
I think the first major thing (at least to me) that happened with inDheart is him abruptly making a post castigating MixMasterLar. When I first saw the post, I remember finding it very odd. Ruminating over it, I'm still not quite sure my opinion of it, but I think I view it as slightly Human. The tone of the post feels like that of a parent lecturing a child to me sort of. I think a Wolf would be more in control of their emotions and perhaps would devote their energies to better purposes than simply writing an invective for someone to post better.
Reading his next post, it really does start feeling like an admonishment imo, with a bit of requests and advice.
Miscellaneous - sry fam, but this thread hasn't even had a long post yet by Mashi standards.
Maybe it's because I feel bad for lynching Charu, but inDheart being against the lynch feels a tiny bit Human to me. I think a Wolf could definitely post thoughts against a Charu lynch, but it's primarily the wording that I think is persuading me. "The dude's trying" and use of the phrase "a bit wrong-headed" seem casual and sort of compassionate, I think? idk how to explain it exactly
Anyway, I think I've found something important now:
In this post, inDheart ruminates over the Night 1 kills. He makes a series of posts about it, but I think what's really important to notice are the timestamps - it takes him an hour and five minutes to decide that the idea he had isn't really potent. If he were a Wolf, I would expect that in making the first post, he had already planned out or had some idea of what he wanted to say. The fact that he decided to run to the store, come back and think about it some more, decide to post, and finally decide not to post his thoughts comes off as extremely natural to me (i.e. Human). A Wolf could feasibly emulate this behavior, but I'm doubtful because of the sheer capriciousness and patience required. He did end up having a post expressing his ideas; so it's not as if he made them up either.
YoshL - inDheart and YoshL both claimed that MixMasterLar focused on YoshL when singling out inactives, but I don't really feel like it went that way. It felt to me that YoshL overreacted to a comment MixMasterLar made and voted for him. It feels over-defensive to me, especially coming from YoshL and, though I understand he was busy with FFR tournament stuff, I remember some of his other posts feeling unYoshL-like to me.
I feel like the bluntness in YoshL's accusation here is sort of Human, if only slightly. I can see a Wolf YoshL doing it too, but the way it was said comes off as somewhat sincere to me.
I don't like this other post of YoshL's where he claims MixMasterLar is the Serial Killer. The logic in it feels a bit too stretched for me, and I feel like YoshL would realize it. Maybe it's just me though.
I guess I'll also note that I feel Humans are slightly more likely than Wolves to claim laziness. Just a little bit.
I think that this post is sort of Human too, where YoshL votes Dabackpack because he feels like Wolves would go after a Serial Killer MixMasterLar. As a Wolf, I feel like he would normally pursue a lynch. But even if not, I imagine he would have compelled his Wolf Partners to wolf MixMasterLar in that case. YoshL is also sure to bring up his surprise to MixMasterLar surviving through Night 1.
Now that I think about it, his fixation on MixMasterLar is really coming off to me as tunneling now, and I think YoshL comes off a bit more Human for it. He seems self-conscience about it too sort of.
Liked this post too about winning the game on a Night Phase if Tokzic were lynched the previous Day Phase. It's the type of 'joke' (for lack of better word) that I feel is more likely to come from a Human mindset than a Wolf one, because it seems he legitimately believes Tokzic is definitely the final Wolf.
I still don't like the posts YoshL made this Phase, but overall, I'm feeling a lot better about him than I was before and I think he's probably Human at this point.
Zenith - dam son, you have 4 pages when most peeps have only 3! i'm glad i don't need to bother reading sunfan tbh
Feel like this post about XelNya not shiftposting could be important. idk if it's very revealing, but perhaps someone will feel one way or the other about it. I'm not certain myself.
Reading his catchup posts, I can sort of get a feeling that Zenith appears to know more than he should, alignment-wise at least. It's sort of consistent with the idea of him knowing too much with the Gradiant and Tokzic thing too. I don't know if it's all in my head, but meh.
Didn't like this read now that I take a closer look at it. While I liked some of Yoshiisland's later posting, I didn't really like any of his earlier posting.
Getting some more feeling about him knowing too much in his reads list (mostly with Gradiant, Tokzic, and YoshL imo). It feels sort of weird to me that he describes XelNya as sketchy but doesn't really lean Wolf or Human - might just be confirmation bias on my part at this point thought. He seems like he gives up his read fairly easily.
Really weird to me that XelNya gave his opinion on Zenith's reads???
Zenith ends up not wanting to vote XelNya by the end of the Phase. Sort of feels artificial to me, but I am also becoming concerned about confirmation bias again tbh.
He still has XelNya as null here, but it's sort of interesting that he does a 180 on Yoshiisland, putting him as most suspicious for being absent. If Zenith's taking on a gentler playstyle, it feels weird to me that he would bus a Partner (who's new to the game) as in that post. Zenith does even vote for him and, for some reason, doesn't switch votes upon coming to the thread End of Day and realizing he's in danger of being possibly lynched.
This post where he discusses being correct in his suspicion of XelNya and Yoshiisland comes off as weird to me, because he was rather finicky on XelNya and his Yoshiisland suspicion felt like it came from nowhere. In another post here he reiterates his previous reads, but alleges that he had been more confident about it than it seemed (at least to me). I do feel the excitement about being right sort of feels sincere though. I'm having a lot of trouble coming to a firm conclusion about Zenith and I'm overall ambivalent at this point. It's just weird because a lot of comments about being right are done in retrospect - he never actually pushes for anything strongly and brings about right results.
He replies to me later about my concern of him trying to pocket me (or it might have been my surprise of him not being suspicious of me) and he responded it was because I was putting in reasonable effort, but I still feel it's a bit off, personally.
There are other small things I've neglected to mention (such as Zenith's meta being different and similar), but overall, I'm very uncertain about Zenith now. I think I felt like he was Human before, but now that I've really scrutinized him, I'm on the fence.
Dabackpack - I like this post a bit. Feels sincere to me. Two posts down, the concreteness that he states "the wolves know I am town" is something I would expect to be likelier seen from a Human. I think it's interesting that he believes Wolves wouldn't be likely to be seen on a mislynch on him. I think it's coming from a Human-mindset though - it really reflects that his mindset is on the path of "I am a Human" and that he's thinking of the logical repercussions of it.
He mentions skipping XelNya's posts, which is a bit humorous now that I read it, since XelNya stated early on about a suspciion on Dabackpack. I feel like skipping a Wolf Partner's posts isn't really something you would see from a Wolf Partner.
I'm really surprised I didn't notice before, but Dabackpack repeatedly declares himself as Human and is being pretty consistent with his idea that Wolves wouldn't want to push a mislynch on him in fear of looking bad.
I don't remember which post sunfan said Dabackpack made that reflected genuine emotion, but I think this post is a good one too. I won't pretend to think I feel a post like this is as Human as sunfan believes, but I am willing to trust in his judgement and do think it has a bit of Humanness too it though.
Dabackpack focuses on MixMasterLar 'miscounting' the number of Wolves and I sort of feel his suspicion for it is artificial. Though, I disagree with the suspicion in a similar manner to how I disagreed with Xiz, so it may just be a difference in playstyle. I only view it as a tad bit Wolfy overall.
This post comes off very Human to me though. I don't feel like Wolves frequently accuse people of being victim to confirmation bias. Dabackpack himself seems rather indignant too.
Actually lol, I lied about what I said about sunfan's emotions read before, I totally think Dabackpack looks way Human now hul. Just read this post and the ones after this one. I especially feel the part where he refers to holding everyone back comes off as coming from a Human-mindset. A Wolf wouldn't really have anything to feel sorry for except for being lynched, but I feel like they would react in a more defensive or perhaps cathartic way than apologetic and disappointed. I think his frustration about not wanting to play during Otakon also reflects maybe that he wants to try but doesn't really have the time to. Unless he's really changed, I think a Wold Dabackpack would just never post at all if he were at Otakon tbh.
I felt that Dabackpack's weariness of me was out of left field (I feel like he should know how I play as a Wolf since we were Partners in the GOAT Wolf Win TWG tbh), but it's not a major thing.
Dabackpack and YoshL start arguing with each other, but this and similar posts from Dabackpack really feel Human to me upon scrutiny. I think these were the posts sunfan was talking about and I agree with him now about it now that I've had time to read them in context.
I still wish Dabackpack would post more since his end of Day 0, but I'm feeling comfortable with him being Human at this point now.
reuben_tate - I'll take a look at T-Force's post later today since I'm tired. As far as reuben_tate goes though, I figure I'm going to have more or less the same opinion of him since he hasn't posted so much.
The post where he ruminated over Gradiant's 'catch' on me still comes off to me as coming from a Human-mindset (I feel like I've said this like 3 times lol).
Again, I think this post also comes from a Human-mindset. As in, I don't think a Wolf would really be thinking about pretending to be worried about Wolves counteracting a plan like MixMasterLar's.
And yet again, I feel this post also comes off as being from a Human-mindset. It reflects that he's ruminating over posts and thinking about them for a while, and still trying to come to the correct conclusion about them.
Basically, a few of reuben_tate's posts feel very pure to me (even if they frequently focus on non-issues in the game or on interpreting things that don't give much information on reads imo). I don't think he's really capable of faking such deception either. I still definitely want to read T-Force to verify my read, but (aside from the inactivity giving me unease) I think benguin has shown him to be fairly Human.
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So overall, if I had to order the list from most Human to least Human, it would be:
MixMasterLar
Dabackpack
inDheart
benguin
YoshL
Zenith
In particular, I suspect the last Wolf is between YoshL and Zenith at the moment. I want to take a rest before I really delve into it later tonight though.
Anyway, I have to leave for research in a few hours, so pls pray that I don't oversleep ty
if any of you know how to graph on python with matplotlib pls bless me with your 很好s cuz i suck at coding lol
晚安 fam!Comment
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Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD
There's the Mashi longpost I've been expecting for ages!!!
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