TWG XXVI: The Werewolf Game TWG (game over)

[talisman]

RE: Re: RE: TWG 26: official title coming later...

yeah ok but I thought your original point was that it was TWGers who were to blame, pretending to be jTWGers, not the jTWGers killing themselves. So therefore you're saying a bunch of TWGers are going "well the jTWGers must look up to fish because he played a couple jTWGs therefore they would kill them therefore we should kill him and now let's kill iggy because he's also a jTWGer." That is a possibility... but I still think it's more likely that fish and iggy were killed for their reputation (in fish's case) as being helpful and in the case of iggy, of actually being helpful and also being publicly mentioned by several people as likely to be human (tass, myself, hans, and fojar at least all said they thought he was human).

But aside from this discussion... how about some other people post? If you're looking for something to post about, try this:

-Your suspicions
-Your non-suspicions (ie who you think is human)
-A convo you might have had
-An analysis of the voting
-Whether or not mead was a wolf
--If so who the other might be
--If not, based on the voting, who might the others be or who can't be paired, etc

I'll try to do my part as well... here's a long convo (which I'm smalling, but it might be useful to read) I had with tass in which discussion of suspicions/nonsuspicions takes place:


TasselFoot (9:04:38 PM): sucky fucky 5 dolla?

Auto response from stressreliefball (9:04:38 PM): around

stressreliefball (9:44:16 PM): now I'm back if you want to talk still
Auto response from TasselFoot (9:44:17 PM): Arcade games with rankings! http://www.ffrcade.com

TasselFoot (9:44:45 PM): 10 dolla?
stressreliefball (9:45:01 PM): I'm missing this reference...
TasselFoot (9:45:35 PM): semi-connected to full metal jacket... otherwise, just mocking asian whores in general
stressreliefball (9:45:44 PM): oh right
TasselFoot (9:46:19 PM): so what're your thoughts on the iggy kill beyond replying to kilga.... and any suspicions for day 2?
stressreliefball (9:46:44 PM): well my thoughts on the iggy kill are pretty much what I posted
stressreliefball (9:46:48 PM): if mead was a wolf
stressreliefball (9:46:57 PM): and his plan was indeed to get iggy lynched
stressreliefball (9:47:22 PM): then maybe because mead bought it the other wolf also would have wanted to kill iggy that much more
stressreliefball (9:47:39 PM): or something like that... but that's in an if-situation
TasselFoot (9:47:45 PM): yea.
stressreliefball (9:47:57 PM): most probably it was the fact that you me hans et al were all saying iggy was human
stressreliefball (9:48:14 PM): and fojar
stressreliefball (9:48:22 PM): (said iggy was human)
TasselFoot (9:48:27 PM): i can't say i wasn't expecting it... because of that fact.
stressreliefball (9:48:34 PM): I wasn
stressreliefball (9:48:37 PM): 't
stressreliefball (9:48:40 PM): expecting it
stressreliefball (9:48:45 PM): but I wasn't surprised either
TasselFoot (9:49:27 PM): i'd be surprised if the next kill wasn't someone more high profile. you or me perhaps.
stressreliefball (9:49:51 PM): I always half expect to die night three/four
stressreliefball (9:50:10 PM): depends on if the wolf/wolves are afraid of the guardian or not
TasselFoot (9:50:23 PM): its the only reason we live this long at all
stressreliefball (9:50:29 PM): probably
TasselFoot (9:50:39 PM): but what about suspicions?
stressreliefball (9:50:45 PM): right
stressreliefball (9:50:56 PM): well I still think there was a good chance that mead was a wolf
stressreliefball (9:51:19 PM): other than that the only thing that has really stuck out to me was kilga's first post today
stressreliefball (9:51:22 PM): like
TasselFoot (9:51:27 PM): he's already dead, therefore not a possible suspicion anymore.
stressreliefball (9:51:30 PM): he went from being captain wishy washy
stressreliefball (9:51:39 PM): to "strongly" thinking stuff
stressreliefball (9:51:57 PM): but I don't see him being that obvious as a wolf either, so dunno about that
TasselFoot (9:52:16 PM): what about the inactives? fojar, mini, tasuke, ld...?
stressreliefball (9:52:33 PM): fojar I lean towards human but I know he's crafty
stressreliefball (9:52:43 PM): in that convo iggy posted he came off human to me
stressreliefball (9:52:57 PM): minineo I almost lean towards wolf, but still undecided
stressreliefball (9:53:19 PM): like his first post in the game
stressreliefball (9:53:28 PM): would be such a historic blunder for a wolf to make
stressreliefball (9:53:56 PM): (it was the question about cardflipping)
stressreliefball (9:54:06 PM): tasuke I really have no clue
stressreliefball (9:54:26 PM): I'll reread the thread but he seems to be acting like he normally does from what I've seen of jtwg
TasselFoot (9:54:30 PM): and fojar copying igot's post in the forum, when igot was a wolf?
stressreliefball (9:54:49 PM): I'm almost trying to ignore that
stressreliefball (9:54:56 PM): it's kind of a silly thing to do on his part
stressreliefball (9:55:07 PM): since it invites all the double reverse pyschology crap
TasselFoot (9:55:19 PM): yup
stressreliefball (9:55:32 PM): it's just a question of whether or not he'd be ballsy enough to do that or whether he was just trying to make a funny
TasselFoot (9:55:52 PM): he was trying to make a funny either way
stressreliefball (9:55:52 PM): if no kills get made while he's in ukraine I'll guess we'll know it's him
stressreliefball (9:55:57 PM): well yeah
stressreliefball (9:56:02 PM): and then ld
TasselFoot (9:56:11 PM): when will he be in ukraine?
stressreliefball (9:56:21 PM): dunno he made a post about it saying he'd be going there
stressreliefball (9:56:29 PM): forgot when he said he'd be going exactly
TasselFoot (9:56:37 PM): kinda dick to sign up for twg knowing that.
stressreliefball (9:56:47 PM): he mentioned cyber-cafes
TasselFoot (9:56:54 PM): still
stressreliefball (9:56:56 PM): true
TasselFoot (9:57:16 PM): and then with that, no wolf kill doesn't meant anything and a wolf kill doesn't either. recall tps's camping trip
stressreliefball (9:57:29 PM): oh right the ahead of time thing
stressreliefball (9:57:40 PM): well whatever... back to what I was going to say about ld
stressreliefball (9:57:49 PM): when I first skimmed his vote post
stressreliefball (9:58:16 PM): I was like "man that would be such a blatant attempt to save mead by tying the votes by voting iggy"
stressreliefball (9:58:31 PM): but then I thought... "would ld be THAT obvious?"
stressreliefball (9:58:39 PM): plus that hinges on mead being a wolf
TasselFoot (9:58:42 PM): didn't matter, it was 4-2 before.
TasselFoot (9:58:48 PM): also, ld IMed kilga pre-voting.
TasselFoot (9:58:53 PM): and was like "who needs my vote"
stressreliefball (9:58:58 PM): well the voting was close I thought
TasselFoot (9:58:59 PM): at least, that is what kilga showed me.
stressreliefball (9:59:08 PM): hmm ok
stressreliefball (9:59:22 PM): I just assumed that he started his post at the same time as whoever was number four on mead
stressreliefball (9:59:31 PM): or something like that
TasselFoot (9:59:38 PM): maybe
stressreliefball (10:00:08 PM): anyway with ld being inactive all the time
stressreliefball (10:00:11 PM): it's kind of lame
TasselFoot (10:00:20 PM): yup
stressreliefball (10:00:26 PM): I'd like to still be able to apply the "inactive = green" rule for him
stressreliefball (10:00:33 PM): but sooner or later he's going to cash in on that
TasselFoot (10:00:41 PM): um.
TasselFoot (10:00:43 PM): he HAS.
stressreliefball (10:00:47 PM): when?
TasselFoot (10:00:58 PM): he's been blue and red before and been the same hella inactive.
TasselFoot (10:01:04 PM): he's been the same the past 5-6 games.
TasselFoot (10:01:10 PM): twg22.
TasselFoot (10:01:13 PM): at least
stressreliefball (10:01:18 PM): hmm don't remember that one
stressreliefball (10:01:36 PM): I always thought he tried just a little bit harder though... made more than one line posts when a special role
TasselFoot (10:01:45 PM): it was the game whorli hosted... where i attacked alain as a fellow wolf... and the game ended early.
TasselFoot (10:01:48 PM): i had you around my finger
stressreliefball (10:01:55 PM): ah right
stressreliefball (10:03:58 PM): ok well now that I've spilled my guts... what are your thoughts/suspicions/nonsuspicions?
TasselFoot (10:04:18 PM): alot similar to yours. and my questions were also starters into my feelings.
TasselFoot (10:05:08 PM): things like fojar's antics... minineo. you'd think a newcomer would want to be more like iggy... kilga's post as well.
TasselFoot (10:05:14 PM): only extra would be vash.
stressreliefball (10:05:32 PM): vash I actually lean towards human on
stressreliefball (10:05:41 PM): for a fairly small reason
TasselFoot (10:05:49 PM): that mead and vash were so similar?
stressreliefball (10:05:53 PM): which is that when I made that post about the random roles or whatever
stressreliefball (10:06:05 PM): (no, but I guess that helps)
stressreliefball (10:06:15 PM): he takes iniative and IMs me about it
stressreliefball (10:06:35 PM): like... that's a fairly cunning play for a wolf to make
stressreliefball (10:06:54 PM): and is much more understandable from just the curious human perspective
TasselFoot (10:07:02 PM): ok, but only the wolves would know really if the roles were or were no random
stressreliefball (10:07:17 PM): probably they would have some idea
stressreliefball (10:07:24 PM): which just supports what I was saying
TasselFoot (10:07:28 PM): it does?
stressreliefball (10:07:33 PM): why would he ask me if he already knew?
TasselFoot (10:07:40 PM): ooh.
TasselFoot (10:07:45 PM): i thought he commented to you
TasselFoot (10:07:47 PM): not questioned
stressreliefball (10:07:51 PM): unless he was trying to be tricky... and I don't see him as that cunning as a player
stressreliefball (10:07:56 PM): no I think I posted it
TasselFoot (10:07:56 PM): ok.
stressreliefball (10:08:05 PM): it's a pretty short convo, like two lines
TasselFoot (10:08:08 PM): i didn't read the convos too carefully
stressreliefball (10:08:09 PM): page two maybe?
stressreliefball (10:08:15 PM): it was in the same post as the hans one
TasselFoot (10:08:26 PM): and apparently that confused me.
stressreliefball (10:08:49 PM): yeah well I wasn't clear about the time of the convo especially with me being in central and whatnot
TasselFoot (10:09:03 PM): gay ass central time.
stressreliefball (10:09:08 PM): I agree
TasselFoot (10:09:41 PM): your feelings on me?
stressreliefball (10:10:01 PM): I lean human
TasselFoot (10:10:07 PM): me too.
stressreliefball (10:10:29 PM): you seem normal tass to me... the last couple times you were a wolf your early posts came off just a little differently
stressreliefball (10:10:39 PM): especially what was it? 21?
TasselFoot (10:10:44 PM): no idea.
stressreliefball (10:10:46 PM): that started the afro-hate chain?
TasselFoot (10:10:53 PM): there were alot of games in a row were i was a wolf
TasselFoot (10:10:55 PM): like 4/6
TasselFoot (10:11:04 PM): i think the afro vs tass thing started before 21
TasselFoot (10:11:11 PM): it went on for about 5 games
TasselFoot (10:11:27 PM): shut up. 21 would have been 5 games.
stressreliefball (10:11:31 PM): heh
TasselFoot (10:11:53 PM): i damn well should seem normal tass.
stressreliefball (10:12:38 PM): well here's my proposal for this game... since we essentially know nothing concrete
stressreliefball (10:12:48 PM): get people to be active and post their aim convos
TasselFoot (10:13:18 PM): i've been as active as anyone... and i really haven't talked to anyone. had some convos with iggy. that's about it.
TasselFoot (10:13:22 PM): but, i agree.
TasselFoot (10:13:29 PM): activity is the key to human victory.
stressreliefball (10:13:43 PM): especially this game, yadda yadda
stressreliefball (10:13:56 PM): for people you talk to
stressreliefball (10:14:06 PM): try getting them (like we just did) to talk about their suspicions
TasselFoot (10:14:11 PM): yup
stressreliefball (10:14:15 PM): and also who they definitely aren't suspicious of
stressreliefball (10:14:26 PM): wolves have a harder time answering that than who they're suspicious of
TasselFoot (10:14:29 PM): i'm not suspicious of fish and iggy.
stressreliefball (10:14:36 PM): heh
stressreliefball (10:14:53 PM): but you know what I mean... leanings and whatnot
TasselFoot (10:14:58 PM): yup

[Tasselfoot]

RE: Re: RE: TWG 26: official title coming later...

i like how ffrcade.com still stands out proudly... as it should.

[Tasuke]

Based on the two votes I'm sticking with the one "vet" and one jTWG are the wolves. The jTWG'ers, or atleast some of them know a little bit about how Fish works, but I hardly remember playing against him and how he did. I think it's much more of the vets knowing that he's a helpful guy, and the wolf getting him outta the way now. And with Iggy it should be obvious why he was wolfed. He was the only person that was even really trying as I see it. And even if he wasn't the only one trying he sure did seem the most active.

And I really hope that Kilga doesn't still think I'm a wolf 'cuz I pt a safety vote on him. It's just that him and LD weren't doing anything o help and LD already had a votew on him. And I might no be able To get on for the rest of the weekend. So I'm gonna put a vote on Fojar 'cuz he voted me for no reason. But I was wondering that if he starts getting more votes on him that someone can change my vote to someone with no votes.

[Kilgamayan]

Re: RE: Re: RE: TWG 26: official title coming later...

yeah ok but I thought your original point was that it was TWGers who were to blame, pretending to be jTWGers, not the jTWGers killing themselves. So therefore you're saying a bunch of TWGers are going "well the jTWGers must look up to fish because he played a couple jTWGs therefore they would kill them therefore we should kill him and now let's kill iggy because he's also a jTWGer."

Yes, pretty much. Perhaps our ideas can combine into one, in that iggy made himself the easiest jTWG target by being a rather obvious human and being on the good side of several other players.

[evilbutterfly]

RE: Re: RE: TWG 26: official title coming later...

And, frankly, if I were a wolf, I'd want every damn n00b around as long as possible. less likely to vote for me because I'm me, more easy to corrupt and manipulate... less active, not as smart... need I go on?

Huge ass problem with that: when there are so many jTWG people in a game like there are in this one, the more senior TWGers you kill the more people suspect you as a wolf. Especially given the paranoid and quick-voting nature of jTWGers (hell, 2 of them have votes out already for no real reason), it would be easy for them to all gang up on somebody like yourself and lynch you. In fact, if many senior members die in the upcoming nights and you don't, I wouldn't be surprised if all the jTWG people suggest that you're a wolf because you're still alive. The TWG people do it, and they're smarter TWG-wise, so I'd be surprised if the jTWGers don't.

[talisman]

RE: Re: RE: TWG 26: official title coming later...

Alright let's focus the debate just a little: Do you think mead was a wolf?

I happen to think there's actually a pretty decent chance he was, based on all the reasons I voted him. Especially the fact that from his very first post he's on iggy... and then later he claims that he was trying to see if because of his activity he was searching for good wolfing targets, when iggy's activity happened after his first post. Two reasons he might not have been a wolf: we almost never get wolves day one plus he didn't defend himself that hard. Although that last reason could be read either way really. Mead isn't one to get riled up about being lynched anyways, and sometimes I think innocent humans are less likely to give up than wolves. But just putting it out there.

I'd like to hear what everyone thinks on this issue.

[Tasselfoot]

RE: Re: RE: TWG 26: official title coming later...

I tend to agree for similar reasoning...

to add, there are only 2 wolves this game, not 3. So for day 1, they only have 2 votes to swing, not 3. LD's last second vote on iggy seems mighty suspicious for this reason. Moreso combined with an IM kilga sent me between himself and LD that basically was LD saying "who needs my vote"... which just seems retarded, for a number of reasons.

and to eb... there are 11 left, 4 are jTWGers. it'll be a few days, minimum, before the jTWGers start numbering the TWGers, if ever... and its really a moot point. again, for a number of reasons. but, as I said at some earlier point, I don't want all of this shit focused around me. So I won't delve into it and will instead focus on the above paragraph.

[Tasselfoot]

RE: Re: RE: TWG 26: official title coming later...

Guys.... we only have until 10pm tonight to decide, and we have 1 page of conversation. Not so good.


I'd really like to hear some things from the quiet ones. Hans, Mini, Vash, LD... Fojar and Tasuke if possible. Its not good when over half our players aren't saying dick.

[evilbutterfly]

RE: Re: RE: TWG 26: official title coming later...

Yes, we should hear from the quiet ones. In fact, allow me to pressure LD so he doesn't make a last minute vote. That makes it a 3-way tie, right? So hurry up LD, convince me away from you.

[HansSky]

Re: RE: Re: RE: TWG 26: official title coming later...

Alright let's focus the debate just a little: Do you think mead was a wolf?

How nice of you to ask. If you didn't post that, I would've brought it up anyway. And to answer your question, I say no. I don't think mead was a wolf. Mead was lynched because of iggy. Tass, talisman and I were all pretty much in agreeance that iggy was human. He was talking to everyone and trying to be as helpful as possible. So naturally, when mead comes out and tells us that iggy is a wolf and presents that idea with farfetched reasoning, we're going to look at him funny. But really, for a wolf to say that about a virtually accepted human is just flat out stupid. He should know that he's going to get heated responses from his post, so why even bother taking that risk? In that situation, a wolf would bandwagon onto the idea of iggy's humanity, or just avoid the situation all together. What they wouldn't do is try and go head on against players like Tass, talisman and I.

This doesn't seem very hard to grasp if you take some time to think about it. I'm pretty sure I'm right about mead, just because it doesn't make sense the other way around. I would think that either talisman or Tass would recant what they originally thought about mead, but that's not the case. They take weak day 1 evidence and are still holding onto it. What I'm getting at is that I am almost positive that talisman and/or Tass are wolves. The fish kill is a good kill for anyone to make, just because he's a helpful player plus he won't be guarded. The iggy kill is a good follow up to the Day 1 events, just so they can roll into today and say "I told you so", helping their humanity.

I have deeply considered the sick possibilty of Tass and talisman being wolves together, and it doesn't seem very far out of reach at all. The conversation that talisman posted only added to my discomfort. I wouldn't put it past the two to forge a conversation together, because they could probably get away with it. But some small things bothered me:

On fojar:

stressreliefball (9:55:52 PM): if no kills get made while he's in ukraine I'll guess we'll know it's him

GG talisman. Game over. For a conversation early on in Day 2, don't you think that it's a bit soon to start jumping to conclusions?

TasselFoot (10:10:53 PM): there were alot of games in a row were i was a wolf
TasselFoot (10:10:55 PM): like 4/6
TasselFoot (10:11:04 PM): i think the afro vs tass thing started before 21
TasselFoot (10:11:11 PM): it went on for about 5 games
TasselFoot (10:11:27 PM): shut up. 21 would have been 5 games.

Shut up? Talisman never said a word. I don't think it is too relevant for the case against you, but it does question the integrity of the conversation.

When I was talking to Tps about this, we both agreed on one thing:

NotSoFarOff (3:02:01 PM): all game between the two
NotSoFarOff (3:02:04 PM): it's been like
NotSoFarOff (3:02:18 PM): would you like me to shove my cock in your mouth any further?
NotSoFarOff (3:02:21 PM): sure please do
Tps7910 (3:02:22 PM): I know.
NotSoFarOff (3:02:23 PM): okay your turn

You guys have been backing each other up all game. You guys even had an hour long conversation just to prove how much you agreed with each other. I know that if you guys are lynched and you aren't wolves, then the humans are pretty much fucked. We'd be starting from scratch on Day 4, but I feel confident enough in what I've said to post this publicly.

[talisman]

RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: TWG 26: official title coming later...

Actually, your reasoning on mead does make good sense. Although alot depends on how clever you think mead would be. And remember that he basically committed to voting for iggy in his very first post.

Second, I really don't understand what you're going for with my quote about fojar. If you read on in the convo (as I'm sure you did) you'll see that tass corrects me and says that even players who aren't available online during a night period can still get a wolfing in (a la tps and camping).

I sent you a pm last night in response to your IM, dunno if you read it or not. Basically I haven't given as much thought to tass because I was hung up on the mead thing and he seemed to be in agreeance there.

[talisman]

A list I promised hans I'd make:

Tasselfoot - lean to human but not for any real concrete reason, which bothers me a little. It's mainly because we seem to be in agreement alot, so I tend to overlook his posts when I'm re-reading because maybe I'm unconsciously ignoring the posts of people who agree with me. Pretty stupid, probably. That said, he has seemed himself. I seem to recall the last few times he was a wolf there would always be a little something off with his posts, especially towards the beginning. I don't see that this game.

FoJaR - lean to human slightly mainly because he comes off really human to me in that convo with iggy. But he hasn't really posted anything of significant length either.

vashthestampede0987 - lean to human. We know he isn't connected with mead from the fact that the two essentially shared the exact same opinions day one (a mistake I'm assuming is too obvious for any pair of wolves to make). We also know he probably isn't connected with tps because of tps' vote and suspicion thereupon. But actually one of the big reasons I think he might be human is that after I posted my little query about the randomness of the roles, he IMs me of his own volition and asks me why the roles would be random (this short convo is posted page two). To initiate a conversation about a topic that small and about which presumably a wolf really has no interest in an attempt just to fool me seems like far too subtle play for vash. Maybe I underestimate him, but I don't think so.

Tps222 - actually I don't lean either way. He's come up with the normal thing with his suspicions that seem to come from thin air, but his first few posts do seem a bit directed. I'm somewhat reminded by how good he was in the cardflipping game, but there's really no hard evidence to suggest that he's a wolf.

lightdarkness - tiny tiny lean towards human under the assumption that he wouldn't make that retarded of a tiny unsupported vote and be this disconnected from the game if he were a wolf. Then again, like I mention in the convo with tass, he could just be cashing in on his reputation for being inactive as a green.

evilbutterfly - I lean towards human for similar reasons as tass. Not that eb has been agreeing with me alot, but that he just seems normal and unforced. As a wolf I think his posts would be a little more self-conscious than they appear to be thus far.

HansSky - Lean towards human. The fact that he's came to me (and apparently tass as well?) on aim yesterday to test his apparent theory about the two of us doesn't seem like a particularly wolfy thing to do. Why approach either of us first if you're a wolf? Why not just make a post and stir the pot that way? I suppose he could just be being cunning about it, but I don't think so.

Tasuke - don't lean either way. Well maybe a little towards wolf, but it's tough to say since I have no clue really how he plays. My first thoughts were that his initial day one posts only seemed off because he was new. But kilga has a point about the way he voted. It was a very safe vote for a wolf to make... but also a vote that a really genuinely newbish human might make.

Kilgamayan - lean slightly human. I admit I was fairly suspicious of kilga (if you couldn't tell) after what I perceived to be a significant tone change in his first day two post. But from a different perspective it all seems to make sense for a human kilga. I'm notoriously bad at reading kilga... I think I got him lynched once day one because of it.

MiniNeo - wait he's playing? No way to say one way or the other. Firstly I don't know how he plays and secondly he hasn't posted much. He had one semi-significant post about fojar, and that can be read either way.

[evilbutterfly]

That's an awful lot of humans, there, talisman.

[talisman]

yeah I noticed that... some of them are more slight than the others though. And there's no one like iggy left who I actually strongly think is human.

[Afrobean]

RE: Re: RE: TWG 26: official title coming later...

Afro's offical day2 guide to slow voting®
Tasuke(1) - FoJaR
FoJaR(1) - Tasuke
lightdarkness(1) - evilbutterfly

Yet to vote:
EVERYONE ELSE

Come on guys. Today is the deadline. At 10 PM EST.