TWG XIII - Dark Matters: Crow's Best (Game Over)

[nforcer06164]

The reason I placed a vote on qreepy, and I think I mentioned it, that qreepy DID NOT even listen to Hans. Hans was, in fact, giving some very good advice on gut feelings. Qreepy's impled response was, "You're wrong, screw you, I can do whatever I want." If I was in his situation, I would have at least acknowledged his advice, and said something to the effect of, "You have a point there. I'll think about it some more and try to come up with something more solid." I don't know how placing a vote on qreepy because of his absurd behavior makes me suspicious.

Plus, there is no tension between me and Lupin, from what I can see. I've seen what he's said where I was involved, but I didn't see any kind of accusing behavior in what he said. Why respond when there's nothing to respond to?

[alainbryden]

Me: As I said blah, my personal statement saying that I hope I get wolfed had nothing to do with the game and I understand that the statement cannot follow, therefore you should not be basing your suspicion on it. You, infact, did not make it clear to me how you that statement was such a fundamental part of your suspicion, just that it was in and of itself an off thing to say and I agree. In addition to this, I do not say nothing in my post. I say plenty, and plenty valid. If there is going to be someone like you finding every hint of misbehaviour in anyone, I at least balance it by giving plausible excuses for the most possible misconceptions, thus clearing a few names and adding a bit more order to the dissaray of mistrust.

Amanda: I can't say much about whatever your private conversations with stretch have told you except that it's evident that she wouldn't come off as particularily comfortable with you with the wolf vibes she openly says she gets from you. It's understandable, thus, that your conversations with her seem conceiling. She clearly would not share too much in terms of opinions with someone who she feels is her enemy. As for the pulling a tass thing, as Stretch, I believe, mentioned above, it was more of a statement of flare, as asking to be seen has never really been a tactful thing to do, and I'm sure, if asked, no seer has ever heeded such instructions as to alter their plans.

Lupin: For the amount of credit that you say you give to Lupin, I don't believe you actually do. You would see that this is a variation of other TWG strategies and what he is saying is not all that unreasonable at all. I know this is somewhat contradictory to what I have just said in my previous post but if you do think in terms of giving Lupin credit, nothig he has done will be detrimental to the humans, and certainly doesn't qualify him for a wolf list on its own. I would agree, however on your further suspicion placed in his confrontation with you claiming initially that he "knew you were going to vote for him," as though making out any such decision you make to be a predictably unreasonable one. This is, of course, presuming your paraphrasing is correct. Quote's are preferable as everything is dependent on context.

Nforcer: Much of what you say about nforcer's actions being suspicious in your topic are circumstantial under the initial presumption that he is a wolf. If you describe it in a different light it does not have to seem that way. The effect of your topic is to say, [if nforcer were a wolf, then he would be doing this for these wolfish reasons. That makes him seem like a wolf.] Your illustrated connection between him and Lupin is also circumstantial on the supposition of them perhaps being wolf partners, and pointing out ways that they could be attempting to seem unconnected, but not really damage eachother. I also think this is not reasonable if presented under more objective premises, so I'm let to conlude that most of your suspicion for nforcer, as many of your suspiciouns for other characters, is largely gut feeling drawn from ambiguous connections you have made in the progression of the thread by the frame of mind you read it in.

I will vouch for LD's business with other FFR mattrers as well, although I do not know the specifics of them, I've encountered him many times in the process of working, and know he's been doing lots of it.

What hans is bent out of shape about is how he more or less had to repeat himself in three subsequent posts, each time trying to be more concise so that he would actually be read. Even I noticed this. Those involved in the argument were reiterating their point in new detail each time without answering to the one point he was trying to make:

If you have a feeling, don't just vote from the feeling, at least try to identify what it is that gives you this feeling.


Hans, You should also heed the advice I gave on Lupin. As for TPS, I'm pretty sure everyone's on the right track. We've had enough experience with that.

*For timing reference this post was compiled only with consideration to coments preceding Jursey's post.*

[QreepyBORIS]

Ah, actually, there was no real implied response. It was pretty direct: "I can basically do what I want."

And there is no real way to just up and "come up with something more solid", last time I checked. Someone has to say something that is not. And someone did, and I used the opportunity.

Unless you do not think it is solid enough. But wait a sec, nforcer, look around you. ALMOST EVERY PERSON HERE has voted against someone because they were simply AWAY and BUSY. One or two people are voting Lupin because he is "sketchy". That is not fucking specific, man. Are you just trying to single me out to jump on an easy target, or what? If not, what else could it BE?

Consider it, and I also suggest you think about it more, and come up with something more solid.

[nforcer06164]

Ness, you get YOSHI!'s random vote.

Not because of away or busy. LD's typical first-day random vote.

I dunno, Eb's activity seems moderatley suspicious, that's all I've got now.

Not because of away or busy. Deltro did ignore our warning on how eb always looks suspicious, but I don't blame him for voting on odd behavior.

Although it didn't have much to do with the actual game, blah's post put up a red flag for me for some reason. There doesn't seem to be much else real being said that can be concrete for a vote.

Not because of away or busy. He saw something strange about blah's post. Funny, the same thing happened to me, because it seemed out of place. He decided to vote on it, though I didn't think it was condemnable.

Thus, since Qreepy has posted, and I have reconsidered my view on that idea, mainly because of thinking over what EB said, and some doubts in my own mind, I am sticking to my above stated innactive strategy, I'm not going for a wolf on day 1, like most of you are, I'm waiting for the game to develop more, with more evidence, seerings, and slip-ups for voting seriously on someone. Thus, my vote goes to Flux. He onlu has 1 post, and in that post, he gave no credible information for voting for Blah. He is the least active, so nothing personal.

Not because of away or busy. TPS believed flux did not give credible information for voting blah. I agree with him. That was the basis for his vote. The fact that he is inactive was an afterthought, obviously. That no longer applies because flux has posted since then.

Right now Lupin gets my vote, due to the amount of bullshit in his last post combined with his continued push to lynch Flux (by the way, humans usually don't have a good reason to strongly push for a specfic lynch day one, whereas a wolf, who knows who all the humans and wolves are, does). We should ignore wolfish things he says? So we should ignore everything which allows the humans to win this game? The only people that such a strategy helps is the wolves.

Not because of away or busy. Kefit voted for Lupin because he was saying things he normally doesn't say, and some bad strategies he presented.

I need to change my vote, because I certainly do not want to see a strong player go quickly, so I'll toss a vote at Jursey, and look into some of my own "gut feelings" before the day ends.

Not because of away or busy. Stretchy had a vote on alain previously, revoked because she did not want to see someone like alain die. Jursey has practically no chance of being killed, so, to avoid killing off a "power player", she switched to one with zero suspicion in case he is in danger. Understandable.

TPS/Lupin...ah..Tps. What have we seen in the past? TPS screws himself over on Day 1 because he acts like an idiot and can't get his words out straight. I really don't think we have much to worry about on him because this is how he normally acts. Lupin, on the other hand, is acting oddly. I've played jTWGs with him before and he has never talked about voting off inactives. It does come across as strange and perhaps he is just looking for people to follow his lead and bandwagon off people who aren't talking.

Since I don't want to get a phantom, i'll just go with my highest instinct and vote for Lupin. It's my "gut feeling" that everyone else seems to have about someone combined with his sketchy behavior.

Not because of away or busy. Lupin, in her view, is acting odd. He's not behaving like himself. The "gut feeling" was added in because of this evidence she found. Justified.


Okay, nobody has been voted for mainly because they are away or busy. Only one person voted for Lupin because of "sketchy" behavior, which was obviously just a poor choice of words, if you actually read the post Jursey made. Obviously, you only assumed, and you were wrong. Unless you thought nobody will call your bluff and counter you.

Well, way to back yourself into a corner, qreepy. You have a bit of explaining to do.

[evilbutterfly]

Well, I'm not really sure when the day ends, and I'm about to walk off and do some stuff, so I better get my vote in now. Lupin has been bothering me for quite some time. I can't remember who it was I was talking to (I think it was Amanda, we were complaining about stupidity in the chat), but they said that TPS's not-so-great idea could easily be picked up by a wolf and used to try and hurt the humans. I think that may be what's happened with Lupin. He's taken TPS's idea and pushed it like crazy, despite everybody saying it's not good. And then the excuse of "well a wolf would be more careful" is complete crap. Knowing that means you know that if you act crazy as a wolf you can use that as cover, which you seem to be doing. Also, Lupin pissed me off right away by saying how we'll never get a human day 1. As you may know, I hate defeatism, so I really hate Lupin's attitude right now.

Not the best reasons for a vote, but what the hell, it's Day 1. I'm just voting now so I can walk away and do homework and play games (if I ever finish my work =\ ) and not have to worry about maybe getting a phantom if I don't come back in time.

[QreepyBORIS]

Note how you omitted about have of the OTHER votes cast by the players.

Trying too hard to win an argument? What have YOU got to lose?

[evilbutterfly]

Also, Lupin pissed me off right away by saying how we'll never get a human day 1

never get a wolf**

And I'd just like to say, Qreepy is super-combative in TWG, or so it seems. I find it amusing.

[nforcer06164]

Note how you omitted about have of the OTHER votes cast by the players.

Trying too hard to win an argument? What have YOU got to lose?

Sorry, that's all the votes that stand right now, qreepy, minus the one eb just cast. Maybe you're trying too hard to win an argument. Remember that squabble with Hans?

[QreepyBORIS]

Yes, and what was wrong with that squabble?

Oh, and another thing: You are saying I am wrong, right?

Well, the person who is wrong has no explaining to do. They cannot explain how and why they are wrong, right? So, get to explaining.

Oh, I love the omission of TPS's vote for me.because I was away. And those for alain because he was away (seriously, when they say that he is SUSPICIOUS because he is away means that they are voting because they are away).

And also, voting for someone because they are "suspicious" is as bullshit a reason as, say, voting for someone because they are black. Poor analogy, but I am sure you get the idea.

[nforcer06164]

Yes, and what was wrong with that squabble?

Oh, I dunno. You refused to listen to Hans who had some good advice. What appalling attention skills you have.

Oh, and another thing: You are saying I am wrong, right?

I couldn't have made it any clearer, could I? How perceptive.

Well, the person who is wrong has no explaining to do. They cannot explain how and why they are wrong, right? So, get to explaining.

You haven't explained anything. Good job.

Oh, I love the omission of TPS's vote for me.because I was away. And those for alain because he was away (seriously, when they say that he is SUSPICIOUS because he is away means that they are voting because they are away).

Wow, noticed how I was only using currently standing votes? And before, you said NEARLY EVERY VOTE. How many is that if I included past votes, 2? Out of how many qreepy, how many? Not to mention they don't even COUNT anymore?

And also, voting for someone because they are "suspicious" is as bullshit a reason as, say, voting for someone because they are black. Poor analogy, but I am sure you get the idea.

We vote for people because they are suspicious. We are suspicious that someone may be a wolf, and we vote for that suspicious person in hopes that their suspicious behavior indicates that they in actuality are a wolf.

Your ignorance is absolutely horrible. You did not respond to my accusations at all. I did not omit any votes, save past votes, and that was certainly not "have". You're trying to turn everything I say around on me, and if you're trying to make me look like I'm wrong, well, you're doing a horrible job. But your absolutely blatant ignorance is now thoroughly pissing me off, so I refuse to argue my points any further with you after this. All I wanted to do was make sure everybody else saw that, and the fact that they will is comforting enough to me.

I won't be pushing you to explain yourself any further, so calm down, read everything over thoroughly again, and for all our sakes, THINK before you post again.

[Lupin_the_3rd]

I've played jTWGs with him before and he has never talked about voting off inactives. It does come across as strange and perhaps he is just looking for people to follow his lead and bandwagon off people who aren't talking.

Uh yeah, the premise of day one of last jTWG was to "lynch" rsr2 because he was dead weight. I got the contradictions I knew would come, and I saw patterns with voting and bandwagoning. Notice how I also didn't lynch rsr2 that game. I figured the small chance that it would get him playing would be worth it (luckily he was replaced). Daniellewis sided with me, which got me rather suspicious. Well as it went, that night I seered Danlewis as a wolf, and then the game fell to pieces for the wolves, with only 2 humans dying the entire game. Me using this tactic is not new.

I think you're still misunderstanding, blah. My original "plan" was to lynch an inactive if we didnt have anything better to go on. I thought that this would help to discourage a wolf for remaining in the shadows for the rest of the game (and don't tell me it hasn't happened before).

I only mentioned Nforcer once, maybe twice at most, and I certainly did not make him a scapegoat. I merely stated that it was odd that Nforcer thought flux was a wolf, after only two posts.

Religiously committed to my plan is hardly the adverb I would use to describe my actions. I put out my opinions about what to do day one, I get attacked (expected), create controversy. People finally started talking and posting their opinions/taking sides. If anything, if I am a wolf, you have me to thank later on in the game. Hans, how can you say I evoked no emotional response by putting out that theory? 4 or 5 pages have been written since I first brought that out, mostly about my "plan". If that's not a response, I don't know what is.

Blah, paraphrasing is a terrible way to portray information, as we're seeing your interpretation of the conversation, twisting things ever so slightly.

Well I know you're going to vote for me and knowing you, you'll try to get others to do the same. I just wanted to let you know that if I was a wolf, I'd be smart enough to not say so many stupid things already. Yes, there is evidence against me for you to use to get others to vote, but remember that if I was a wolf I wouldn't leave such evidence behind

Actual conversation:

Legat0bluesummrs: because I have a feeling you're going to rally to lynch me
Legat0bluesummrs: well, you actually already said you were going to vote
mastr414: i say a lot of things
mastr414: there's a rela interesting dichotomy
mastr414: centered on you nforcer kefit and hans
Legat0bluesummrs: I know there's a wolf out of one of us
Legat0bluesummrs: either that, or a bunch of completely polar humans
mastr414: i know figuring the right side can give me all3 wolve
Legat0bluesummrs: well not quite
mastr414: yes
mastr414: for me
Legat0bluesummrs: You honestly think that a wolf sticks side by side with their buddies?
mastr414: im' not sayign 2 or 3 are wolve
mastr414: i'm saying only 1 can be
mastr414: but knowing one
mastr414: can make it esy to figure out the rest
Legat0bluesummrs: even after just day one?
mastr414: it helps a shitload
Legat0bluesummrs: I would think you need more history
mastr414: you'd be surprised
Legat0bluesummrs: well anyways, if you do intend to take me down, know this
Legat0bluesummrs: I could have easily avoided this whole thing as a wolf
mastr414: i don't intend on taking you down
mastr414: i intend on finding a wolf on day 1
mastr414: i seem to be one of the few oens trying to do that
Legat0bluesummrs: yeah, but even I admit there is some decent evidence you could use against me
mastr414: sure therte is
mastr414: but
mastr414: i'm not a wolf
mastr414: so i'm not looking for evidence to swing votes on you with
mastr414: i'm looking to find a wolf
mastr414: not find someone i can lynch

You're not looking for evidence to swing votes, but...you are. I seem to be the center of this whole contraversy, and the majority of your post just seems awkward. I would think you would realize the subjectivity of paraphrasing.

So basically in conclusion, if I was a wolf, would I honestly put myself under this amount of pressure? I'm getting voted upon, and being attacked. Is this really a good plan for a wolf on day one? Hell, if I was a wolf, this would be my free day off. Watch the humans bicker with a smile on. People that know how I play know that this is not unusual behaviour for me. Unusual behaviour? Yes. Uncharacteristic? No.

[Lupin_the_3rd]

nForcer, you don't talk to me on AIM anymore, you suck. Yeah, I see a lot of his posts and him and Lupin seem to be buddy/buddy on a lot of ideas, but I believe in some of his posts he comes up with good points and the only thing that comes across as wolfish to me is him following along with Lupin. Nothing terrible to worry about here, they are probably allied together on AIM or something. Or they could be wolf partners looking for an easy way to vote off inactives, but I really haven't seen that off of nForcer as much as Lupin.

Unfortunately, the first time I've imed nforcer this whole game was about 5 minutes ago. What you say about nforcer and me being wolf pals is the equivalent of saying that kefit and I being wolf pals due to the disagreement we had on wolfish behaviour.

[Lupin_the_3rd]

This day is ending soon, so I might as well submit the only true evidence I have before I get a phantom.

I have to agree with Lupin, though. He said to vote of the weakest link. If they aren't going to make a good contribution to the game by talking at all, then they most likely aren't going to help in the future. Chances are, they could be a wolf, and are trying to fly under the radar so that no one will suspect them. I know that i haven't been contributing that much, but see the reason above ^. I'll be able to do a lot for the next week considering I don't have to go to school. The only one that's standing out is TPS, but that is to be expected considering he acts stupid every game. It would kind of help if more people were talking so that we could have more opinions, and maybe something to go off of.

Next day

TPS/Lupin...ah..Tps. What have we seen in the past? TPS screws himself over on Day 1 because he acts like an idiot and can't get his words out straight. I really don't think we have much to worry about on him because this is how he normally acts. Lupin, on the other hand, is acting oddly. I've played jTWGs with him before and he has never talked about voting off inactives. It does come across as strange and perhaps he is just looking for people to follow his lead and bandwagon off people who aren't talking.
nForcer, you don't talk to me on AIM anymore, you suck. Yeah, I see a lot of his posts and him and Lupin seem to be buddy/buddy on a lot of ideas, but I believe in some of his posts he comes up with good points and the only thing that comes across as wolfish to me is him following along with Lupin. Nothing terrible to worry about here, they are probably allied together on AIM or something. Or they could be wolf partners looking for an easy way to vote off inactives, but I really haven't seen that off of nForcer as much as Lupin.

Since I don't want to get a phantom, i'll just go with my highest instinct and vote for Lupin. It's my "gut feeling" that everyone else seems to have about someone combined with his sketchy behavior.

awww, I thought you liked my idea before Jursey. I guess things change when someone's popular opinion is going down.

[blahblah18]

based on my post and responses to the post and my own personal thoughts and opinions, I'm actually going to vote nForcer

[HansSky]

Totally ripped off guide from stretchy's totally ripped off guide version 1.4

Lupin (3): Kefit, Jursey, eb
Jursey (2): Lupin, panda
Qreepy (1): nforcer
AlainBryden (1): lightdarkness
evilbutterfly (1): deltronumbernumber
BlahBlahnumber (1): flux_
flux_ (1): TPS
Kefit (1): Qreepy
nforcer (1): blah

Not voted yet: alain, hans, flypie