TWG XIII - Dark Matters: Crow's Best (Game Over)

[Kefit]

Also, were he a wolf, which I think he is, he has SO much experience in being a wolf without being noticed.

I have been a wolf in exactly one game. In that game, Alain nailed me on the second day. I don't think that that really counts for much experience.

Anyway, Lupin, the problem with your logic is that we have absolutely nothing to go off of besides people looking wolfish. Telling us to ignore that is more or less equivalent to telling us to vote randomly, or to vote for other bullshit reasons, such as inactivity. Even if acting wolfish might not mean much on day one, it is all we have to go off of right now.

Oh, and you guys who are getting pissed off at this game are taking it way to seriously. Comon, the point of this game is to have fun, not to get mad at eachother and have hissy fits and such. I know, I probably am not helping things with the somewhat offensive tone of some of my posts, but this is just the way I act when I am really laid back

[QreepyBORIS]

*too.

By the way, I may sound angry, but that is just the natural passive-aggressive tone I take. K.

[HansSky]

Ok. After this I am done talking about it.

You can not base evidence off of a feeling. Why? Because it could be wrong. If I talk about this anymore I will get more pissed off than I already am.

[QreepyBORIS]

Uhm.

We ahve had literally DOZENS of examples where people (evidentally) had evidence, and were wrong wrong wrong wrong WRONG.

So, how about we don't have any evidence, either?

[Lupin_the_3rd]

Anyway, Lupin, the problem with your logic is that we have absolutely nothing to go off of besides people looking wolfish.

I consider there to be a difference between hard evidence and suspicious behaviour. I consider "wolfishness" to be something like bandwagoning onto a vote- something that isnt necessarily wolf behaviour. Then there's hard evidence, where the wolf messes up when saying something and finds themself in a pickle. Though wolfishness works sometimes, I don't even consider it during day one. I don't believe there would be any reason why a wolf would be obligated to do something suspicious day one.

[Kilgamayan]

Guys, tone it down a bit, okay?

[alainbryden]

Hey. I'm sorry for being so uninvolved. Ashamed really. I'll try to be better from now on. I'll leave it at that.

The first thing, is that I don't know where nforcer got his ideas from. I'm sorry if I agreed to something and wasn't paying attention, but I really was not hiding and upset from pointed fingers. As many mentioned, this certainly isn't me, and it's part of the game. I don't know what gave that impression or what made him think that I was "very clear" about it, but I'm not upset that I was brought up as a Tass killer.

I'll be honest, I've found it difficult to keep up. I've never seen such a fragmented day one. People aren't even all following the same trail, and are all off on their own arguments or being ignored.

I'm glad you're read into TPS' misrepresentation properly, although Lupin's pursuaision of the idea seems innapropriate to me. Lupin is the type of person who can make any idea sound good, because he's really spoken quite eloquently, but there's just no way that it is a good idea to get in the frame of mind of merely voting for the least active player. I know however that Lupin doesn't intend to hold onto this strategy because he's usually pretty good about being helpful to the humans and going with something when there's something to go on.

As far as the opinions on Kefit, so far he has been better about making himself clear and only as active as he normally is. I see an improvment in his readability and I don't see how you are coming up reading him as a wolf Qreepy. Perhaps it is because you haven't been in recent games to see everyone's latest game stlyles. I also agree with Hans that you should ignore your gut, because there are some players, like Kilga, Kefit and Jursey that just always set off my gut a little bit, and since it happens even in games where they aren't wolves, it's safe to say that it's just a result of their gameplay and you sould look for something better to work with.

Flypie if you were waiting for my answers to that comment you quoted, there really isn't one. It wasn't really twg related. Deltro, it seems to me popped in for a second, somewhat ruined my expectations for him, then dissapeared again so I'll wait for him to bounce back before considering his position.

I believe that's what I wanted to cover in reading the thread. I won't dissapear this time.

[nforcer06164]

How was I saving myself from being killed? I only had 1 vote against me when I posted. I remember something like this happening to me a while ago. People started bandwagoning me, and when I tried to defend myself, everyone said HE'S DEFENDING HIMSELF ONLY A WOLF WOULDN'T WANT TO GET LYNCHED. A human's role in the game is to find the wolves, and not get killed.

It seems that the main accusation on me is my post count, which has been mentioned several times. Is that really enough to have me condemmed?

I was trying to condemn you, flux. I wanted to get you out into the open and get you to TALK. You're new, you should try to have some input to help get things going. Lupin was right, all I was aiming for was getting you to talk. That's pretty much all the vote was for. I have no problem with your postcount.

I am going to go ahead and say Kefit, just because he is trying really hard to get people to gather on his opinion. That wasn't worded terribly well, but I think you might get the idea.

Also, were he a wolf, which I think he is, he has SO much experience in being a wolf without being noticed. He has what it takes to be a wolf, and he's bloody dangerous.

Evidence?

Not without being noticed in the GAME. That should be clear.

I mean that he has expertise in looking like a human when he really is not. And my gut tells me he is not. And if my gut is right, big win! If not, then ah. Well, that would suck a goood bit. But I am still convinced I am right.

Gut?

His subsequent posts have not struck me well, either.

What the hell, qreepy. If you're going to vote on someone with a bad reason, at least be consistent. You're intention on voting on "gut" does not seem right to me. You refuse to listen to Hans, who know very well what he's talking about. So what if you think Kefit is good at looking human when he's a wolf? Did you stop to think hemight look human because he might actually be human? You're reasoning and "gut" is completely unjustified.

[nforcer06164]

Oh, and is it just me, or did anyone else forget blah was playing? He hasn't said a word since page 3.

[flypie743]

And what about LD? He hasn't posted since page 1? Unless I am missing a random post from pages 2-7 :P

[blahblah18]

Normally I would keep this to myself, but since I feel I've been so quiet so far, that I should allow all my ideas to be open to the public and then dissected so hopefully a wolf can be found.

My choice for who I'm going to vote for today rests in Four(4) people.
alain
amanda
lupin
nforcer

alain: Has been away, offers an excuse of personal problems... my issue isn't that he's been inactive but that he's personally stated that he hopes he gets wolfed... and now he's back in playing like everything's fine... you all my say i'm too critical, but that soudns like a guy that just got a free pass from day 1 voting and it doesn't sit well with me AT ALL
by the way, notice how alain's post was large but actually said nothing, notice that and think on it.

amanda: Has had a really funny and awkward vibe in all AIM convos i've had with her so far. She's coming off slightly odd, and made the point to mention that she wasn't listed initially in the people that i thought would kill tass, but then she feigns ignorance as to the reasoning or the implications of the list in conversation with her. She tried to convince me that she thought the list was a list of the best players and she felt shunned for not being on it, but that's complete bullcrap and I think that's fairly obvious. What really got me was her whole "seer me" comment. she's the player that won't be seered for a while, and I think she knows that. Hopefully I will be seered tonight still. But amanda knows she won't be seered tonight or for several nights, so by asking (dare I say pleading) to be seered, it is really just an INNOUCOUS little comment that shouldn't make one think "oh noes, she's def human" So her saying it works 2 ways as a wolf.
1. Seer sees her say that, takes it as value that she's human and doesn't seer her
2. Seer sees that, still realizes there are better people to seer anyway and doesn't seer her.
And even if her plan doesn't work out like that, well on the assumption that Tass was seered night 1 (Since no one has come to me and been like "hey i seered you you're human") if she is seered as a wolf, there's not much the seer can really do about it without having at least 1 other human in on it, and then not any human would do, it would have to be one smart and capable enough to influence voting to a known wolf without raising suspicion of a seer.

Lupin: Lupin is playing really stupidly and saying foolish things and then trying to stand by them religiously. Anyone that was in the chat last night also knows what i'm talking about. He mentioned that his whole "vote inactives" thing was to be a last-ditch effort but had no response when i said that it seemed that for a last-ditch effort it was all he was pushing and fighting for.... His only response was ot message me on AIM and say this

(PARAPHRASED)
(Lupin talking)
Well I know you're going to vote for me and knowing you, you'll try to get others to do the same. I just wanted to let you know that if I was a wolf, I'd be smart enough to not say so many stupid things already. Yes, there is evidence against me for you to use to get others to vote, but remember that if I was a wolf I wouldn't leave such evidence behind
(Me Talking)
That's your problem Lupin and what makes me suspicious of you. As a human I don't need to find reasons to get other people to vote you, I just need to try and find a wolf, NOT to try and find a reason to lynch you. Remember that, a wolf needs to find reasons to convince others, a HUMAN just needs to gather as much information he can glean and share it with everyone, exposing it to the light.
(END PARAPHRASE)
I think anyone can see some serious problems in this convo here and maybe someone smarter then myself can discern lupin's true meaning and objetive, but like I said, I just give you all the informatino I've gathered and let you all do what you will with it.

nForcer: He's been acting so odd, and there seems to be some fakeISH tenstion between him and Lupin that I can't decipher 100% yet. Lupin keeps mentioning nForcer's name as a scapegoat whenever anyone blames him for something E.G During flux's voting, lupin says "I didn't tralk about your inactivity, only nforcer did" etc... nForcer hasn't said anything contradictory about Lupin though, even while he's been attacked subtly MULTIPLE times... so regardless of lupin being human or wolf, this is definately suspicious behavior that I feel should be addressed. His vote for Qreepy also seems a bit sketchy as if he was waiting for an "obvious" reason to vote someone and then do it... its JUST LIKE BANDWAGONING, only a lotmore subtle... he's bandwagoning on an idea rather then on a person, because he knows most no one will disagree with the fact that what qreepy's doing is stupid... BUT REMEMBER THIS PEOPLE, wolves just need to kill any old human, Humans HAVE TO FIND THE WOLVES... so by qreepy taking a stand and placing a vote on kefeit when he has no votes on him and no suspicion or anything and offers a reason (his instinct) as to why he voted kefit.. that makes me think Qreepy is QUITE HUMAN. Its nforcer that took this as an opportunity to cast an easy vote that wouldn't (or so he thought) have any suspicion on it....

so there you go, the first post of the game that actually gives you all any informatino... I wish you guys would do some investigatory work of your own from time to time, but for now this is all I can present you. Use with it what you will, but please, I hope EVERYONE comments on it and begins to discuss a little more deeply the actions taken.

Also things to look for as future thought
1. Where has LD been and why hasn't he been more involved
2. Why is Hans getting so bent out of shape over something that shouldn't bother him at all?

EDIT: Also the reason I didn't vote is because I want people to take this information and decide for themselves what they think of it, not to be just herded around by my vote on it.

[lightdarkness]

Just so you all know i'm not dead, i've been very busy with FFR stuff, and flypie can vouch for some of that stuff.

I'll re-read the entire thread and see if I can pull up something to go on.

[HansSky]

Things that have been bothering me this game:

1. I think you guys should really try and back off of alain. He's likely been having difficulties outside of TWG, and really just hasn't found the mental time for it. He made a post, said he'll do better...hold that as evidence for tomorrow, if you will. But I think we have bigger fish to fry right now.

2. TPS/Lupin. Blah used a very good adjective to describe how determined they are to stay with this strategy. "Religiously". They have not changed their viewpoints one bit, and are pretty god damn stiff when it comes to changing their minds. TPS...I wouldn't expect anything less. Lupin, on the other hand, surprises me. I find him to be very smart, but this strategy is not smart. If you vote on(and god forbid LYNCH) inactives, then you have wasted a day. You get nowhere at all. You draw no reactions from anybody, simply because you have no reasoning at all. The reaction you draw is one you already have, by me/blah/amanda(maybe more, but I don't recall). We just sit here and call you stupid, and THAT gets us nowhere. Frustrating.

3. Qreepy, qreepy, qreepy. I offer you one bit of advice, and you call wolf on me? I told you anyone can back me up, you just have to ask. There's not much more I can say about this, except that you should probably take heed to what I have said. See: nforcer's vote.

That was really there to answer blah's question:

2. Why is Hans getting so bent out of shape over something that shouldn't bother him at all?

Maybe more to come later, but I want other people to post first.

Go.

[stretchypanda]

It's interesting, Blah, because you fall at the top of my list of suspects. I'm not sure if making such a statement will condemn me further in your eyes or in the eyes of those who would follow you, but I have definitely received the same "vibes" from you as you have from me. I should clarify that my comment was a little joke, as I assumed you would guess, since you've known me long enough to know I am one hell of a smartass.

The other thing about you is something you mentioned over AIM. That you would most definitely not let Tass get off so easily. I'm sure you were being honest, but I have learned the hard way not to place my trust in you (Infiltration, anyone?)

However, you are following your usual pattern of calling people out (in hopes of provoking a slip? I'm not sure why you do it), so I'm inclined to believe you are just being suspicious, which I expect.

I need to change my vote, because I certainly do not want to see a strong player go quickly, so I'll toss a vote at Jursey, and look into some of my own "gut feelings" before the day ends.

EDIT: Good to see you back, Alain. Don't think this takes you off the hook. ; )

[JurseyRider734]

Pander, I don't love you anymore :C

In response to blah's post:

I agree about alain's actions being weird, but I guess if we wanted to find out his alibi we could AIM him, but he wasn't able to follow and I don't think it's striking as "wolfish."

I haven't really talked about TWG much with Pander, so I wouldn't be able to tell if she was acting oddly or not. You're really the only one who can see this in the way she acts because it was a one on one convo with you and her. Maybe if you posted one of the convo's, it would be more informative. Her little joke about not being on the list just came across as a joke and I really don't think that there's much to go on for her.

TPS/Lupin...ah..Tps. What have we seen in the past? TPS screws himself over on Day 1 because he acts like an idiot and can't get his words out straight. I really don't think we have much to worry about on him because this is how he normally acts. Lupin, on the other hand, is acting oddly. I've played jTWGs with him before and he has never talked about voting off inactives. It does come across as strange and perhaps he is just looking for people to follow his lead and bandwagon off people who aren't talking.

nForcer, you don't talk to me on AIM anymore, you suck. Yeah, I see a lot of his posts and him and Lupin seem to be buddy/buddy on a lot of ideas, but I believe in some of his posts he comes up with good points and the only thing that comes across as wolfish to me is him following along with Lupin. Nothing terrible to worry about here, they are probably allied together on AIM or something. Or they could be wolf partners looking for an easy way to vote off inactives, but I really haven't seen that off of nForcer as much as Lupin.

Since I don't want to get a phantom, i'll just go with my highest instinct and vote for Lupin. It's my "gut feeling" that everyone else seems to have about someone combined with his sketchy behavior.