TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

What if sunfan is wanting Subaru gone to cut the dead weight and to keep Plop around due to Plop being the stronger partner. :thonk:

This is a weird post to make if he is wolf partners with Plop. Especially like 15min before EoD.

(Context: Sunfan pushing for a Subaru lynch)

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

Like. Haku's last major read is that Plop is a wolf.

Is there more that I'm missing or isn't this like, really easy today?

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

Like. Haku's last major read is that Plop is a wolf.

Is there more that I'm missing or isn't this like, really easy today?

This is the same problem I'm having

Every conclusion that I come to sounds so incredibly simple it's almost stupid to even believe

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

I still have a lot of work to do--- gonna look directly at Plop's contributions now, but I feel pretty good about lynching Plop today. Current headspace: Plop/Freezin/YoshL in that order

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

I should be making mental notes of who I should be blocking based off your stuff here.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

I wanted to know where you were coming from to help make sure I wasn't misunderstanding your word choice. "Town is weird" makes it sound like Ema is separate from town, like she's saying "you townies" instead of "us townies," y'know what I mean?

I get that its d0 but is this seriously a big deal to you?

I at least wanted to bring it up. Haku's responses to it seemed fine, though, so I'm off it now.

This is literally the beginning of the game. Sunfan/Plop unlikely to be W/W

There's no real incentive for wolf Sunfan to challenge wolf Plopadop this early for a weak push

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

Moreover, Plop defending himself to Sunfan like this here also is not W/W

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

That ule post came across as pretty townie to me. I feel like she'd be more self-conscious about going that deep into mechanics if she were a wolf (since "focusing too much on mechanics" is a popular wolf tell).

This post reads as TMI to me now. "Focusing too much on mechanics" is indeed a wolf tell... on FFR. Ulli has almost never played on this site so it's hard for me to believe that she would be aware of this meta. (P.S. She admits that the meta on her home site is totally different.)

The reason this is important is because, if I were in Plop's shoes here as a town, I would see the mechanics post and think, "she's focusing on mechanics. That's a wolf tell." because that's the most immediate response I'd have.

The telling part is that Plop REACHES this read but then flips it over, saying "ah! She's towny because her post is so obviously wolfy that it can't be wolfy!!" This is a literal example of WIFOM... and yet, Plop magically seems to arrive at the unintuitive "correct" answer of "Ulli is town!"

It's a very safe, easy move for Plop to make here, because it's a freebie read, because all he has to do is mentally invoke WIFOM and use the "contrarian" response. This is a very easy contrarian read for Plop to make, and it serves a dual purpose of making Plop seem like he's critically thinking about player alignment, but also saving his ass in case Ulli ends up lynched later.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

YoshL responds to Plop's weird Ulli read.

I'm actually thinking on a little different lines here.

I went back and actually read the post, and the majority of it felt like common sense.

Like for example, the call to let up on any red checks should be pretty common sense given you read the potential blues and reds in the game, there's a lot of them that manipulate checks (assuming we have the alignment check in the game in the first place)

The one good point that was brought up was the final part regarding red miles, because I had forgotten about potential slightly-forced pushes on various players from the red miles role. I think my biggest issue though then becomes, why didn't they apply this to anything said in thread?

Like, thinking about it, i really really don't like how there's for some reason very random traction (no matter how small) on t-force lynch? i get that people aren't married to the idea, but when i said "gut tforce wolf" i wasn't expecting as much discussion around it as actually happened.

Basically, I don't like the mechanics post, because it's comboed with "very simple thoughts about setup", and "not applying mechanics thoughts to things actually happening in game"

Hmm, I see your point. While I still think a wolf would be too self-conscious to make a post like that, I'll keep an eye out to see if her analysis eventually gets applied/incorporated into her reads.

like plop says, i mostly want to see what they have to say later, because it's still not anything i'm 100% sold on

---
also, thank the ffr elementals for the downtime for extra phase time because god it looks like we needed it.

maybe will also need it for thanksgiving time too? *big shrug*

This has a very high chance of being wolf theater. It's hard to put into words, but when you see YoshL replying to reads from other players, especially in posts this long, you would expect to at least get some idea of how YoshL views Plop or vice versa. As an example:

Also feeling a little wary at this mentality, because xiz is seeming to be a little more focused on who the best kill at this point in time is, rather than like... looking for more information to better inform votes

This is YoshL's immediate next post, a response to Xiz (who is town). Not only does he criticize the read, he immediately shades Xiz's mentality as wolfy. That is, not only is YoshL continuing to evaluate Ulli, the SUBJECT of the conversation, he is using the conversation as a way to generate reads on other players in the conversation.

Another example on the following page:

I can't actually tell if shadow is speaking for real and mindmelding, or read my post, and tried to fake-generate a mindmeld, because that's some pretty similar wording lmao

Again, this is a READ on another player (who is town). Go back and read YoshL's long response to Plop's strange Ulli read.

YoshL makes it a point to disagree with Plop's interpretation, but the conversation with Plop never results in any development of a read in either direction. Because Plop is a wolf with YoshL.

Plop's response to YoshL's response is also EXTREMELY awkward and after that the conversation between them IMMEDIATELY stops. Plop's like, "OK, yeah, sure, I'll think about it." And that's it.

This isn't how players talk to each other. Especially not YoshL. He'd be weirded out by Plop's post, just like I am.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

To be more concise, maybe.

Wolf partners have a very hard time interacting with each other in thread. The reason is because, in the context of pushing an agenda, they have no reason to.

Towns interact with towns and wolves because they want to solve the game.
Wolves interact with towns because they need to trick town and push them to make mislynches.

Why do wolves need to interact with wolves? Because people will notice if they don't. So wolf-wolf communication in-thread is purely a MAINTENANCE task: it's just something you sometimes have to do. And, unlike the other cases, these conversations are necessarily fake, performative.

That's why it can really look stilted when two wolves talk to each other in thread. They're only doing it because they "have to." Plus, it's super hard! It can be harder to talk to your fellow wolves than it would be to talk to towns. As a rule of thumb, you rarely observe meaningful, compelling wolf dialogue, and many times you'll notice that some wolf pairs just flat-out do not talk to each other unless they have to.

YoshL at least took the initiative to respond to Plop's observation because he knows this. He knows that he has to talk to his partners or else he looks bad. The problem is, as I pointed out, it is clear that YoshL/Plop's interaction exists only for its own sake. Nothing changes as a result of this conversation. In fact, if you pay attention, YoshL's post actually talks past Plopadop. And Plopadop, in response, terminates the conversation, and they both move on like nothing happened.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

I'm not nearly done to finishing but I 100% expect to see more of the same pattern here: Plop and/or YoshL staging useless conversations and then quickly dropping them to actually get shit done.

If I'm lucky, the third compadre is actually just Freezinice.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

reading last few pages im suspicious of sunfan, i feel like he gets super ambivalent about lynching people only when he rolls wolf.

i dont feel like digging up the really old games and combing thru them, its more of a gut read

I had a similar thought cross my mind, but for now I'm chalking up the ambivalence to him thinking he's gonna miss EOD.

i do understand the "not going to be in thread for eod" but i feel like the post is a little bit closer to trying to look like they're in game than anything else.

That, and "i'll be back hours after EoD", despite having paid attention to the setup and OP, thinking about it LMAO

These three posts all talking about Sunfan, and then YoshL shifts focus to Xiz, and Freezin and Plop don't continue the convo

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

active players I don't feel great about:
haku, shadowgod, freezin, xiz, plop

less active players I feel mostly okay toward:
funnygurl, yoshl, raeko

How come you don't feel good about freezin? And how do you feel about yoshl's more recent posts/activity? Also, which post was the red flag post you mentioned earlier?

I've got all I need!!



Plopadop. See you in court!!

[Shadow_God_10]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

DBP quick question for you:

Are you considering the posts and interactions from an emotional standpoint as well?

Like, for me, I get 0 emotion from YoshL when I read through his stuff

compared to maybe... We'll use Trevor as an example

Trevor (If we're town reading him) has a very dry and sarcastic tone which, if you happen to know the dude, you can pick up on

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG 198 - TWGabout Succession [GAME THREAD]

In case the very important video link didn't work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCm8h0M4umM