TWG Turbo 41: Trust Fall! [GAME THREAD]

[Shadow_God_10]

not the sunfan/lar wolfteam...

lar's gonna be picking at me for some hours yet (genuinely kind of strange he hasn't yet) if haku doesn't punch my ticket outa here, I hope that read doesn't stand the test of time

This kind of reads like you have your fingers crossed, which, I mean fair... Like Haku said, everyone wants outta here.

What will you do if Haku says no?

[the sun fan]

Something something wolves voting someone in the last 10 minutes of a game and then town panic.

It looks funny because it's the first checkpoint, but I assure you, you guys will struggle to not procrastinate later on as it becomes more and more difficult to find another town player.

Part of me thinks Sunfan wants to exit early to give a chance to the new players to play the game and also 'cause he joined last minute to fill the game.
They're not good reasons for an alignment, but that's the vibe I get.

I joined for reasons that are unknown to the other players of this game (mostly)
I would not factor in new player's ability to breathe into my decision to do this, haven't really thought about that either
I guess me posting less should be something I ought to *try* to do, but it is rather hard for me to do this
I probably am top poster now, I'm not going to go try and figure out how to check

[MixMasterLar]

This is my first time trying to iso a game, so bear with me. Also it's important to keep in mind that this is solely based off of what's been posted, which means info is partial at best since like, half the players so far don't have a large post count, so do take the following with a grain of salt. At the very least this should hopefully give some direction for conversations to be had.

• Galaxink (Null): literally nothing to go on, though I have to imagine that given the format if they were wolf they would have at least posted once by now [potential wolf partners: literally how would I know]
• roundbox (Null): at the very least has posted once, but a simple “hi I don't like the new forum” doesn't give anything to go off of, looking forward to their thoughts on things though [potential wolf partners: impossible to say at this time]
• raeko (Town Lean): again, not much to go off of, but what's there is stuff that I generally like the vibe of, also not being in a rush to leave the game makes me feel better about them too, I want to see more from them [potential wolf partners: no clue]
• DucDucGoos (Null, Wolf Lean): nothing inherently wrong with what they've posted, but I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that they could be playing this as “oh I am new I don't know what's going on” when in reality they know what they're doing and trying to establish a certain perception of themselves to seem less threatening, also did not like the lack of putting out town reads when responding to Lar's homework [potential wolf partners: dunno]
• MML (Null, Wolf Lean): shitposty wolf Freezin callout page 2, cheeky "Lar bites" agree with sun, gave homework with town reads and in response post did not remark on any of mine, like they never really mattered what was put there, and only told Duc not to trust everyone which should be obvious, no engagement/back-and-forth on this feels weird, bad, no bueno, does not like sun trusting haku quickly, gives good reasoning as for why, could be townLar calling out wolfSun behavior or wolfLar distancing himself from his partner, substantial interactions with Freezin (good) and sun (bad) [potential wolf partners: Freezin, sun]
• Shadow_God_10 (Null, Wolf Lean): seemingly not in rush to leave, clarification of rules, sun accuses of being wolf to which Lewdy responds they're looking to pair with townies, but has only really engaged much with me, scared of haku, similar vibes to sun, Lar slight town, no read on Freezin/Duc/Gal/raeko, likes me, roundbox trending down, takes issue with haku's MML/Freezin wolf read, doesn't like haku's quickness, agree with their assessment of finding a pool of players instead of just 1, isn't mad at sun wanting to leave quickly, I fear they may be trying to pocket me [potential wolf partners: sun, Freezin, Lar]
• sun (Wolf Lean): Lar bites, likes haku's wanting to leave early, does not want new players off the table (understandable but also questionable), reads Freezin and Lewdy as wolfy, haku as town, does not give good reasons as to why he views haku as town nor why he wants to fall with him so early until pressed on it, no other reads for someone trying to leave as town is weird (good for you if you leave with town, but no other reads gives the rest of town nothing to work with), no reads on players with a decent post count: myself, Lar [potential wolf partners: haku (if haku denies trust fall), Lar, Freezin/Lewdy if he's being tricky]
• Freezin (Null, Town Lean): forum talk, wanted to leave with haku but isn't going to do it so early, wants to keep haku around for a bit at least, lots of vibe posting, questioning haku's desire to leave early, agrees with Lewdy about haku rushing, null reads sun, encouraging posting from others, really wants haku around, thinks the longer the game goes the worse town's chances of winning are, quarantine idea [potential wolf partners: MML, haku]
• haku (Town Lean): initially wolfreads MML/Freezin over forum complaints and changes mind to townreading them for same reason, spending good amount of time helping others figure out new forum layout, volunteers to leave early to get things moving (don't necessarily like it but something like that needed to happen at some point), goes back to thinking MML/Freezin are the wolf team because they started talking in thread first, doesn't think there's a need for a pool of players to pick from which sucks (if you're town, give town your reads before you exit if you truly want them to win), townreads sun, Duc, and raeko responding to Lar's homework, eventually changes tune and offers tier list idea, but only jokingly fills it out [potential wolf partners: sun (if haku denies trust fall), literally anybody else honestly]

TL;DR:
Town Lean: raeko, haku
Null: Freezin, roundbox, Gal, Duc, Lewdy, Lar
Wolf Lean: sun

If I had to pick both wolves right now or lose the game I go with sun/Lar here but I am still open to opinions.

Haku is wrong here this is good town play

I thought I responded to your "homework" though was it you who listened to Garbage? I legit do not have the time right now to check tho

[Hakulyte]

I think what I was getting at, and rather poorly, was would you have been more keen to lean on a trust in maybe the second or third checkpoint?

Not necessarily this one. That's on me for not clarifying

That's somewhat true. The truth is that I'm doing a lot of things unrelated to the game and I concluded that my playstyle will likely hinder town later on especially with new players. This is the best time for me to exit imo.
There's plenty of players here that can lead the game forward properly imo that I don't feel too bad about it.

I'm just hoping this game starts with a good checkpoint experience and you guys can continue playing and have fun overall. If I stay in this game too long, I will wolf read everyone for stupid reasons and it's not gonna help. xd

[the sun fan]

This kind of reads like you have your fingers crossed, which, I mean fair... Like Haku said, everyone wants outta here.

What will you do if Haku says no?

genuinely debating immediately saying I trust him again lmao
but idk, haven't really thought about that and I don't see much of a point
probably try to move onto my 2nd top town which is probably Charmoleon for pointing out that thing about Lar

I know that his is crafty, I know that he has good social politics and I certainly don't want to give him too long of a leash this game, but that does not feel like a point he concocted to throw shade on lar, but genuinely the result of sleuthing. He was also even townreading lar before (maybe even more than anyone else given he listed lar first) and reevaluated for a good reason that I didn't notice and think makes a lot of sense.

I don't dislike his reads list either

but like idk he clearly has indicated he wants to stick around further so idk if me pursuing him would be worth anything

ew you made me think about it, hate that

[MixMasterLar]

SunFan the long and sort of it is I just have a hard time believing you came to the conclusion that dipping out this early in the game was the way to start conversation and "do something" over literally anything else.

Like let's say you guys leave and flip town. Fantastic. How the fuck does that help other then mathatically help with the POE? Guess what, full reads and actual discussions with consequences help with POE too, and doesn't remove two towns from the input. Come on

And and Haku, scun reading Moe because they posted read? Really? Come on. At least complain that they're reading in fragmented sentences and a bitch to read, or argue their inaccuracies if you want but that's honestly more of what we need in this game. (Which makes me a hypocrite because I havet posted full reads but like, we need something that isn't testing ourselves out of the game)

I fully reject it's optimal to find someone and fall before all of the thread has even posted

[Charmoeleon]

Holy read list. My mind went from Top Town for organizing the interactions to potential Top Wolf for making a Summary of the game to keep tabs on to Null because after reading it twice I feel like your reads are more uniquely driven than falsified in hope to project town vibes.
You have 4 wolf leans so, clearly something is wrong here. I guess I should interpret it as "players I wouldn't trust fall" vs players that might be worth a chance to trust fall.

If you keep making these, I think others will want to keep you in the game for sanity reasons later on.

I think it's perfectly fine for you to null read me after that. And yes, it is probably best interpreted that way. My wolf lean reads of Duc and Lewdy are mostly out of my own fear of the unknown (Duc) and being pocketed (Lewdy) but if forced to choose between them and sun/Lar atm I'd make my peace with Duc or Lewdy.

I'm perfectly fine with sticking around to help out. That's really what I want, anyway. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but whatever I can do to help town out, I will. As mentioned before, I'm perfectly fine not falling with anyone if it comes to that.

[MixMasterLar]

Now listen, I am leaving work . I got a little over an hour to go across Pensacola and get shopping done at Sam's . Then I have to cross Pensacola back to go home

Tonight I will come in here and listen my dudes I get it you want more Lar. Fine, I plan to come in here and start ripping people up because Lewdy and Freezin are hella too neatrul sounding to me,Haku makes no sense, SunFan is crazy, Round and Raeko are MiA and apparently everyone just things Raeko is town for little to no reason, Moe gave a run on sentence then read me as nullwolf and that's kind of shit, and someone hasn't even posted at all. Games fucked and don't let me not being on the case sooner make you think I haven't noticed

[the sun fan]

SunFan the long and sort of it is I just have a hard time believing you came to the conclusion that dipping out this early in the game was the way to start conversation and "do something" over literally anything else.

Like let's say you guys leave and flip town. Fantastic. How the fuck does that help other then mathatically help with the POE? Guess what, full reads and actual discussions with consequences help with POE too, and doesn't remove two towns from the input. Come on

And and Haku, scun reading Moe because they posted read? Really? Come on. At least complain that they're reading in fragmented sentences and a bitch to read, or argue their inaccuracies if you want but that's honestly more of what we need in this game. (Which makes me a hypocrite because I havet posted full reads but like, we need something that isn't testing ourselves out of the game)

I fully reject it's optimal to find someone and fall before all of the thread has even posted

I cannot simply wait here forever for people to post

getting two towns out of the game is how we win
I am a very narcissistic person when it comes to werewolf, I started a post with "I" 4 times in a row a bit ago as I'm sure everyone can see
I do not believe that I am sooooooooooo important that I need to stay around and help people figure out how best to proceed, that genuinely seem ridiculous to me. I trust others to do as I have done and identify towns to the best of their ability ESPECIALLY if star replaces into that currently effectively empty slot (I guess this doesn't apply if that slot isn't town, but that is maybe or maybe not future me's problem to hopefully deal with)

fwiw I do not think raeko is anything other than null, I didn't jive with toko's townread of her, that's probably the only part of the post (other than the thing where he was guesstimating on the player that has not arrived)

the game is DEFINITELY not at all fucked, you really don't need to be seething about stuff as you shop. it is alright and I think town is on a good trajectory (probably)

also haku please get me outa here before he comes back, thx

[the sun fan]

I think people are underestimating the value of me learning that Haku is town (or maaaaaaybe just a wolf with the empty slot as a partner)
I am DOGSHIT at reading haku historically, sometimes I go through a full game without even trying, so like
I place a lot of value on my read of him given I was just wolfing with him and he felt much more genuine in comparison

it feels pretty good to know someone is town and I don't think anyone has really factored that in
(even moreso given the slot is haku)

[Charmoeleon]

some notes:

I don't think it is fruitful at all to speculate on galax's likelihood of being a wolf or not. I remember looking at some data from another site on whether or not 100% afk players were more likely to be wolves or not, and is was something like 2% more likely than random (which imo is within the acceptable margin of error but it was cited as fact to me more than once)

this is simply a question, but how do you feel about someone potentially saying that Beez feels more townie for not trying to force townreads when they were claiming to have none? Would a wolf that is trying to blend in want to at least look like they're giving something rather than nothing? I'm not saying this is my read or not, just asking you.

I didn't notice Lar not responding to your list, I'll have to check the veracity there, but if true, I think that is indeed important and slightly wolfy.

I would not say that I want new players off the table, but I want people to be able to do what they want in this game, if that makes more sense. I definitely had a convo before this game began about how I really, really didn't want any new player to feel left out. Getting mislynched in a normal game is pretty bad for new players (or even correctly killed sometimes), but this game, to me, had the potential to be even worse because it can be extended over phases and phases of nothing but denial. I worried for the sake of new players in that regard. I hope that this makes sense.

That's totally valid. I do only have them null atm though, not wolf lean, because that would be dumb. It's just a thought that crossed my mind that I figured I'd put down.

If I'm taking Duc's game at face value here, I absolutely agree that it makes them more townie. If they're wolf, and just using their newness to their advantage, then it also keeps up their charade by not offering town reads.

Lar mentioned the game that I suggested and Daft Punk, but gave nothing on my town reads, yeah. I also believe that the old players that also answered his homework didn't get a response either but I haven't double checked that.

I did say in the list that you did NOT want new players off the table, to be fair. I also think that's a completely valid feeling because new players want to play, but it also gives wolves potentially easier targets to leave with right off the bat, which isn't helpful for town. Though I do acknowledge that if new players are left for later and only town leaves the game, you wind up with three new players and three old players in the endgame, which can be equally risky. I just feel like choosing if/when to get new players to fall with other players is going to be crucial for town victory here.

[Shadow_God_10]

This is my first time trying to iso a game, so bear with me. Also it's important to keep in mind that this is solely based off of what's been posted, which means info is partial at best since like, half the players so far don't have a large post count, so do take the following with a grain of salt. At the very least this should hopefully give some direction for conversations to be had.

• Galaxink (Null): literally nothing to go on, though I have to imagine that given the format if they were wolf they would have at least posted once by now [potential wolf partners: literally how would I know]
• roundbox (Null): at the very least has posted once, but a simple “hi I don't like the new forum” doesn't give anything to go off of, looking forward to their thoughts on things though [potential wolf partners: impossible to say at this time]
• raeko (Town Lean): again, not much to go off of, but what's there is stuff that I generally like the vibe of, also not being in a rush to leave the game makes me feel better about them too, I want to see more from them [potential wolf partners: no clue]
• DucDucGoos (Null, Wolf Lean): nothing inherently wrong with what they've posted, but I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that they could be playing this as “oh I am new I don't know what's going on” when in reality they know what they're doing and trying to establish a certain perception of themselves to seem less threatening, also did not like the lack of putting out town reads when responding to Lar's homework [potential wolf partners: dunno]
• MML (Null, Wolf Lean): shitposty wolf Freezin callout page 2, cheeky "Lar bites" agree with sun, gave homework with town reads and in response post did not remark on any of mine, like they never really mattered what was put there, and only told Duc not to trust everyone which should be obvious, no engagement/back-and-forth on this feels weird, bad, no bueno, does not like sun trusting haku quickly, gives good reasoning as for why, could be townLar calling out wolfSun behavior or wolfLar distancing himself from his partner, substantial interactions with Freezin (good) and sun (bad) [potential wolf partners: Freezin, sun]
• Shadow_God_10 (Null, Wolf Lean): seemingly not in rush to leave, clarification of rules, sun accuses of being wolf to which Lewdy responds they're looking to pair with townies, but has only really engaged much with me, scared of haku, similar vibes to sun, Lar slight town, no read on Freezin/Duc/Gal/raeko, likes me, roundbox trending down, takes issue with haku's MML/Freezin wolf read, doesn't like haku's quickness, agree with their assessment of finding a pool of players instead of just 1, isn't mad at sun wanting to leave quickly, I fear they may be trying to pocket me [potential wolf partners: sun, Freezin, Lar]
• sun (Wolf Lean): Lar bites, likes haku's wanting to leave early, does not want new players off the table (understandable but also questionable), reads Freezin and Lewdy as wolfy, haku as town, does not give good reasons as to why he views haku as town nor why he wants to fall with him so early until pressed on it, no other reads for someone trying to leave as town is weird (good for you if you leave with town, but no other reads gives the rest of town nothing to work with), no reads on players with a decent post count: myself, Lar [potential wolf partners: haku (if haku denies trust fall), Lar, Freezin/Lewdy if he's being tricky]
• Freezin (Null, Town Lean): forum talk, wanted to leave with haku but isn't going to do it so early, wants to keep haku around for a bit at least, lots of vibe posting, questioning haku's desire to leave early, agrees with Lewdy about haku rushing, null reads sun, encouraging posting from others, really wants haku around, thinks the longer the game goes the worse town's chances of winning are, quarantine idea [potential wolf partners: MML, haku]
• haku (Town Lean): initially wolfreads MML/Freezin over forum complaints and changes mind to townreading them for same reason, spending good amount of time helping others figure out new forum layout, volunteers to leave early to get things moving (don't necessarily like it but something like that needed to happen at some point), goes back to thinking MML/Freezin are the wolf team because they started talking in thread first, doesn't think there's a need for a pool of players to pick from which sucks (if you're town, give town your reads before you exit if you truly want them to win), townreads sun, Duc, and raeko responding to Lar's homework, eventually changes tune and offers tier list idea, but only jokingly fills it out [potential wolf partners: sun (if haku denies trust fall), literally anybody else honestly]

TL;DR:
Town Lean: raeko, haku
Null: Freezin, roundbox, Gal, Duc, Lewdy, Lar
Wolf Lean: sun

If I had to pick both wolves right now or lose the game I go with sun/Lar here but I am still open to opinions.

This reads list screams paranoid, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with a little paranoia with the amount of wolf leans.

I am rather curious however on a couple things:

#1: Why do you have Raeko as town when they've not done much to help the situation at hand?
#2: Galaxink and Roundbox have the exact same amount of posts, yet you seem to lean towards one as a wolf than the other?

[Shadow_God_10]

Omfg please ignore point #2. I was mistaken

Galaxyink posted during the signups. I mistook them for Ducduc early on in the game

[Charmoeleon]

Haku is wrong here this is good town play

I thought I responded to your "homework" though was it you who listened to Garbage? I legit do not have the time right now to check tho

Nah, I believe that was Duc? In your response to me you talked about my game recommendation and Daft Punk, and that was it, nothing about my town reads

[the sun fan]

SunFan the long and sort of it is I just have a hard time believing you came to the conclusion that dipping out this early in the game was the way to start conversation and "do something" over literally anything else.

Like let's say you guys leave and flip town. Fantastic. How the fuck does that help other then mathatically help with the POE? Guess what, full reads and actual discussions with consequences help with POE too, and doesn't remove two towns from the input. Come on

given you're coming back later and talking about this whether I'm here or not, let me go into detail about this further

this is how the game is won. Getting town outa here with another town. Nothing of substance was happened (for the most part, not entirely, I grant you).
I cannot believe that leaving a legacy is so intrinsically important that trying what I tried is never valuable, I think it was exceptionally valuable. I'm kinda surprised more people aren't talking about it (Maybe it froze the wolves somewhat? that might be too selfish of me and it wasn't what I was trying to do so w/e)

The short of it is that it helps town because it advances the game state, and I see little point in waiting for roundbox or the other player to come in and post (though I certainly want to see both of them post ofc). So what if they do? I'd still be here, doing what I'm doing, trying to win the game.

I was quite surprised when people said they want to stick around(I guess it makes somewhat more sense from Toko, but I was not understanding raeko's desire to stick around for multiple phases). I highly predict the sooth that Haku has already said; at least one, probably two, phases are likely to be very panicked as we approach the checkpoint. This (intends to) avoid that and if Haku declines me and two players fall and we are in the 2nd checkpoint, I'll probably be doing much of the same where I try to get my vote in early.

I have faith in town because I have to have faith in town. If you are town in this game, at some point, you have to be content with trusting. I ain't about the life that Raeko and Toko want to live in here.

I have never really satisfied you before, it feels like. I don't intend to start trying now; it never really seems like it can be enough (this isn't woe is me, this is more facing the facts). This is how I believe the game to best be won as town and I am rather surprised to seem rather alone in that thinking.

extra short tldr since I already said "the short of it"
two town leaving greatly, greatly outweighs any input of those two towns. I also literally told Haku he doesn't have to accept right now if he wants to talk more, and even if he wants to, he can decline so like
I feel misrepresented by you not considering that.

Hakulyte you can decline me and we can do it again later if you are so inclined; I said as much earlier
feel free to do so