TWG Turbo 41: Trust Fall! [GAME THREAD]

[Charmoeleon]

This is my first time trying to iso a game, so bear with me. Also it's important to keep in mind that this is solely based off of what's been posted, which means info is partial at best since like, half the players so far don't have a large post count, so do take the following with a grain of salt. At the very least this should hopefully give some direction for conversations to be had.

• Galaxink (Null): literally nothing to go on, though I have to imagine that given the format if they were wolf they would have at least posted once by now [potential wolf partners: literally how would I know]
• roundbox (Null): at the very least has posted once, but a simple “hi I don't like the new forum” doesn't give anything to go off of, looking forward to their thoughts on things though [potential wolf partners: impossible to say at this time]
• raeko (Town Lean): again, not much to go off of, but what's there is stuff that I generally like the vibe of, also not being in a rush to leave the game makes me feel better about them too, I want to see more from them [potential wolf partners: no clue]
• DucDucGoos (Null, Wolf Lean): nothing inherently wrong with what they've posted, but I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that they could be playing this as “oh I am new I don't know what's going on” when in reality they know what they're doing and trying to establish a certain perception of themselves to seem less threatening, also did not like the lack of putting out town reads when responding to Lar's homework [potential wolf partners: dunno]
• MML (Null, Wolf Lean): shitposty wolf Freezin callout page 2, cheeky "Lar bites" agree with sun, gave homework with town reads and in response post did not remark on any of mine, like they never really mattered what was put there, and only told Duc not to trust everyone which should be obvious, no engagement/back-and-forth on this feels weird, bad, no bueno, does not like sun trusting haku quickly, gives good reasoning as for why, could be townLar calling out wolfSun behavior or wolfLar distancing himself from his partner, substantial interactions with Freezin (good) and sun (bad) [potential wolf partners: Freezin, sun]
• Shadow_God_10 (Null, Wolf Lean): seemingly not in rush to leave, clarification of rules, sun accuses of being wolf to which Lewdy responds they're looking to pair with townies, but has only really engaged much with me, scared of haku, similar vibes to sun, Lar slight town, no read on Freezin/Duc/Gal/raeko, likes me, roundbox trending down, takes issue with haku's MML/Freezin wolf read, doesn't like haku's quickness, agree with their assessment of finding a pool of players instead of just 1, isn't mad at sun wanting to leave quickly, I fear they may be trying to pocket me [potential wolf partners: sun, Freezin, Lar]
• sun (Wolf Lean): Lar bites, likes haku's wanting to leave early, does not want new players off the table (understandable but also questionable), reads Freezin and Lewdy as wolfy, haku as town, does not give good reasons as to why he views haku as town nor why he wants to fall with him so early until pressed on it, no other reads for someone trying to leave as town is weird (good for you if you leave with town, but no other reads gives the rest of town nothing to work with), no reads on players with a decent post count: myself, Lar [potential wolf partners: haku (if haku denies trust fall), Lar, Freezin/Lewdy if he's being tricky]
• Freezin (Null, Town Lean): forum talk, wanted to leave with haku but isn't going to do it so early, wants to keep haku around for a bit at least, lots of vibe posting, questioning haku's desire to leave early, agrees with Lewdy about haku rushing, null reads sun, encouraging posting from others, really wants haku around, thinks the longer the game goes the worse town's chances of winning are, quarantine idea [potential wolf partners: MML, haku]
• haku (Town Lean): initially wolfreads MML/Freezin over forum complaints and changes mind to townreading them for same reason, spending good amount of time helping others figure out new forum layout, volunteers to leave early to get things moving (don't necessarily like it but something like that needed to happen at some point), goes back to thinking MML/Freezin are the wolf team because they started talking in thread first, doesn't think there's a need for a pool of players to pick from which sucks (if you're town, give town your reads before you exit if you truly want them to win), townreads sun, Duc, and raeko responding to Lar's homework, eventually changes tune and offers tier list idea, but only jokingly fills it out [potential wolf partners: sun (if haku denies trust fall), literally anybody else honestly]

TL;DR:
Town Lean: raeko, haku
Null: Freezin, roundbox, Gal, Duc, Lewdy, Lar
Wolf Lean: sun

If I had to pick both wolves right now or lose the game I go with sun/Lar here but I am still open to opinions.

[Shadow_God_10]

Oh, I'm sure him wanting to move on is 1000% genuine, but I'm also 100% certain it has nothing to do with his alignment. There's no reason to lie about that.

I suppose that's true yes...Everyone has a genuine reason to move along from the game when you word it like that

Let me ask you a question Haku...

Would the situation be a bit different had this same scenario played out later on? Or are you struggling to make a decision here because it's so early?

[the sun fan]

well, I definitely read the OP again before voting you just to make sure I understood what would happen if a, b, c, etc

there's nothing about how if you don't respond, that I automatically get paired with a wolf. What you're thinking of (I think) is that if NO player successfully trust falls with another by each check point, a random town gets paired with a random wolf. Even if you're afraid of this and unable to read the OP for some reason, you can also just decline so there's nothing to worry about here.

I think that my read on you is largely focused around us wolfing together recently. You seem very different in a way that like
obviously, I know that you're going to try to appear different on the surface as much as you can, but it literally just like
feels good

I am DEFINITELY not used to townreading you, period, let alone at the beginning of the game and so strongly. But literally, it just felt right.

The way you talked about how you ignored xel and I and just townread others and no one noticed, I can't even realistically tell you why I felt like it was you as town saying that, but it felt very town. I don't know if I can really say a ton that would ever make you townread me back, weirdly, I hadn't really thought of that that much.

the tl;dr is that you feel kind of like obvious town to me after having just wolfed with you, idk what else to say really.
decline if you wish but I feel happy that I was very likely right; townreading you correctly was certainly not on my bingo card this game.

[Charmoeleon]

Also I do want to acknowledge Haku saying in his joke tier list that I "almost understand the game too well". I'll take that as a compliment, thanks. While I haven't played mafia on the forums, I am at least familiar with the game and was attempting to do due diligence by following the last game (even if I didn't guess who the wolves were correctly).

[the sun fan]

Oh, I'm sure him wanting to move on is 1000% genuine, but I'm also 100% certain it has nothing to do with his alignment. There's no reason to lie about that.

I can do scrabble stuff and also this at the same time, it really was meant to be a joke earlier.
Today, I've studied a few hundred words of review, gonna do some other review with my "friend"""" (rival) later, and did autopsy of 2 games from the last tourney I went to.

This thread isn't really sucking air away from other things in a way that makes me hate the game. I saw freezin and others joking back about it, but really
it is fine

I wouldn't have signed up for this game if I didn't have the time, and I delayed my signup until I knew I was going to have enough time, which is something that Toko can corroborate if anyone happens to care that deeply about it.

[the sun fan]

lewdy townreading me for those two things is certainly strange, maybe even a little wolfy
I think haku has the right of it that they ought to be read as NAI

[the sun fan]

not the sunfan/lar wolfteam...

lar's gonna be picking at me for some hours yet (genuinely kind of strange he hasn't yet) if haku doesn't punch my ticket outa here, I hope that read doesn't stand the test of time

[MixMasterLar]

lar, I guess as something to talk about

do you think that what I said is true about me not ever trying to get haku to trust me if a new player is my teammate? or likely or like
what
are you just gonna throw peanuts at me? I'm not asking you to be mean, I just expected something more than "I hate sunfan now"

I'm still at work myself so please wait for more full thought; been posting doing only the boring old people password reset calls

I 100% agree that you are unlikely to do this if one or the new players is your teammate, as you would jeopardize winning the game if it meant you could support them in chat and make sure they understood everything/have fun.

I know that leaving this early probably dooms your team in that exact scenario but the sentiment stands: it's extremely out of character for you to take an easy one at the cost of a new player's experience

[Hakulyte]

This also lended greatly to the additional 15% of certainty. This is something that reads as actual annoyance to me and being stuck in a loop of "hurry up and wait"

This is my first time trying to iso a game, so bear with me. Also it's important to keep in mind that this is solely based off of what's been posted, which means info is partial at best since like, half the players so far don't have a large post count, so do take the following with a grain of salt. At the very least this should hopefully give some direction for conversations to be had.

• Galaxink (Null): literally nothing to go on, though I have to imagine that given the format if they were wolf they would have at least posted once by now [potential wolf partners: literally how would I know]
• roundbox (Null): at the very least has posted once, but a simple “hi I don't like the new forum” doesn't give anything to go off of, looking forward to their thoughts on things though [potential wolf partners: impossible to say at this time]
• raeko (Town Lean): again, not much to go off of, but what's there is stuff that I generally like the vibe of, also not being in a rush to leave the game makes me feel better about them too, I want to see more from them [potential wolf partners: no clue]
• DucDucGoos (Null, Wolf Lean): nothing inherently wrong with what they've posted, but I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that they could be playing this as “oh I am new I don't know what's going on” when in reality they know what they're doing and trying to establish a certain perception of themselves to seem less threatening, also did not like the lack of putting out town reads when responding to Lar's homework [potential wolf partners: dunno]
• MML (Null, Wolf Lean): shitposty wolf Freezin callout page 2, cheeky "Lar bites" agree with sun, gave homework with town reads and in response post did not remark on any of mine, like they never really mattered what was put there, and only told Duc not to trust everyone which should be obvious, no engagement/back-and-forth on this feels weird, bad, no bueno, does not like sun trusting haku quickly, gives good reasoning as for why, could be townLar calling out wolfSun behavior or wolfLar distancing himself from his partner, substantial interactions with Freezin (good) and sun (bad) [potential wolf partners: Freezin, sun]
• Shadow_God_10 (Null, Wolf Lean): seemingly not in rush to leave, clarification of rules, sun accuses of being wolf to which Lewdy responds they're looking to pair with townies, but has only really engaged much with me, scared of haku, similar vibes to sun, Lar slight town, no read on Freezin/Duc/Gal/raeko, likes me, roundbox trending down, takes issue with haku's MML/Freezin wolf read, doesn't like haku's quickness, agree with their assessment of finding a pool of players instead of just 1, isn't mad at sun wanting to leave quickly, I fear they may be trying to pocket me [potential wolf partners: sun, Freezin, Lar]
• sun (Wolf Lean): Lar bites, likes haku's wanting to leave early, does not want new players off the table (understandable but also questionable), reads Freezin and Lewdy as wolfy, haku as town, does not give good reasons as to why he views haku as town nor why he wants to fall with him so early until pressed on it, no other reads for someone trying to leave as town is weird (good for you if you leave with town, but no other reads gives the rest of town nothing to work with), no reads on players with a decent post count: myself, Lar [potential wolf partners: haku (if haku denies trust fall), Lar, Freezin/Lewdy if he's being tricky]
• Freezin (Null, Town Lean): forum talk, wanted to leave with haku but isn't going to do it so early, wants to keep haku around for a bit at least, lots of vibe posting, questioning haku's desire to leave early, agrees with Lewdy about haku rushing, null reads sun, encouraging posting from others, really wants haku around, thinks the longer the game goes the worse town's chances of winning are, quarantine idea [potential wolf partners: MML, haku]
• haku (Town Lean): initially wolfreads MML/Freezin over forum complaints and changes mind to townreading them for same reason, spending good amount of time helping others figure out new forum layout, volunteers to leave early to get things moving (don't necessarily like it but something like that needed to happen at some point), goes back to thinking MML/Freezin are the wolf team because they started talking in thread first, doesn't think there's a need for a pool of players to pick from which sucks (if you're town, give town your reads before you exit if you truly want them to win), townreads sun, Duc, and raeko responding to Lar's homework, eventually changes tune and offers tier list idea, but only jokingly fills it out [potential wolf partners: sun (if haku denies trust fall), literally anybody else honestly]

TL;DR:
Town Lean: raeko, haku
Null: Freezin, roundbox, Gal, Duc, Lewdy, Lar
Wolf Lean: sun

If I had to pick both wolves right now or lose the game I go with sun/Lar here but I am still open to opinions.

Holy read list. My mind went from Top Town for organizing the interactions to potential Top Wolf for making a Summary of the game to keep tabs on to Null because after reading it twice I feel like your reads are more uniquely driven than falsified in hope to project town vibes.
You have 4 wolf leans so, clearly something is wrong here. I guess I should interpret it as "players I wouldn't trust fall" vs players that might be worth a chance to trust fall.

If you keep making these, I think others will want to keep you in the game for sanity reasons later on.

This also lended greatly to the additional 15% of certainty. This is something that reads as actual annoyance to me and being stuck in a loop of "hurry up and wait"

This is kinda crazy, but I think I'm town reading you more than Sunfan because I feel like I disagree with most of your posts in the last few pages and wolves usually try to avoid the spotlight unless they have a good reason.

This is not an invitation to make everyone be in conflict with everyone. xd

[the sun fan]

This is my first time trying to iso a game, so bear with me. Also it's important to keep in mind that this is solely based off of what's been posted, which means info is partial at best since like, half the players so far don't have a large post count, so do take the following with a grain of salt. At the very least this should hopefully give some direction for conversations to be had.

• Galaxink (Null): literally nothing to go on, though I have to imagine that given the format if they were wolf they would have at least posted once by now [potential wolf partners: literally how would I know]
• roundbox (Null): at the very least has posted once, but a simple “hi I don't like the new forum” doesn't give anything to go off of, looking forward to their thoughts on things though [potential wolf partners: impossible to say at this time]
• raeko (Town Lean): again, not much to go off of, but what's there is stuff that I generally like the vibe of, also not being in a rush to leave the game makes me feel better about them too, I want to see more from them [potential wolf partners: no clue]
• DucDucGoos (Null, Wolf Lean): nothing inherently wrong with what they've posted, but I have a nagging feeling in the back of my mind that they could be playing this as “oh I am new I don't know what's going on” when in reality they know what they're doing and trying to establish a certain perception of themselves to seem less threatening, also did not like the lack of putting out town reads when responding to Lar's homework [potential wolf partners: dunno]
• MML (Null, Wolf Lean): shitposty wolf Freezin callout page 2, cheeky "Lar bites" agree with sun, gave homework with town reads and in response post did not remark on any of mine, like they never really mattered what was put there, and only told Duc not to trust everyone which should be obvious, no engagement/back-and-forth on this feels weird, bad, no bueno, does not like sun trusting haku quickly, gives good reasoning as for why, could be townLar calling out wolfSun behavior or wolfLar distancing himself from his partner, substantial interactions with Freezin (good) and sun (bad) [potential wolf partners: Freezin, sun]
• Shadow_God_10 (Null, Wolf Lean): seemingly not in rush to leave, clarification of rules, sun accuses of being wolf to which Lewdy responds they're looking to pair with townies, but has only really engaged much with me, scared of haku, similar vibes to sun, Lar slight town, no read on Freezin/Duc/Gal/raeko, likes me, roundbox trending down, takes issue with haku's MML/Freezin wolf read, doesn't like haku's quickness, agree with their assessment of finding a pool of players instead of just 1, isn't mad at sun wanting to leave quickly, I fear they may be trying to pocket me [potential wolf partners: sun, Freezin, Lar]
• sun (Wolf Lean): Lar bites, likes haku's wanting to leave early, does not want new players off the table (understandable but also questionable), reads Freezin and Lewdy as wolfy, haku as town, does not give good reasons as to why he views haku as town nor why he wants to fall with him so early until pressed on it, no other reads for someone trying to leave as town is weird (good for you if you leave with town, but no other reads gives the rest of town nothing to work with), no reads on players with a decent post count: myself, Lar [potential wolf partners: haku (if haku denies trust fall), Lar, Freezin/Lewdy if he's being tricky]
• Freezin (Null, Town Lean): forum talk, wanted to leave with haku but isn't going to do it so early, wants to keep haku around for a bit at least, lots of vibe posting, questioning haku's desire to leave early, agrees with Lewdy about haku rushing, null reads sun, encouraging posting from others, really wants haku around, thinks the longer the game goes the worse town's chances of winning are, quarantine idea [potential wolf partners: MML, haku]
• haku (Town Lean): initially wolfreads MML/Freezin over forum complaints and changes mind to townreading them for same reason, spending good amount of time helping others figure out new forum layout, volunteers to leave early to get things moving (don't necessarily like it but something like that needed to happen at some point), goes back to thinking MML/Freezin are the wolf team because they started talking in thread first, doesn't think there's a need for a pool of players to pick from which sucks (if you're town, give town your reads before you exit if you truly want them to win), townreads sun, Duc, and raeko responding to Lar's homework, eventually changes tune and offers tier list idea, but only jokingly fills it out [potential wolf partners: sun (if haku denies trust fall), literally anybody else honestly]

TL;DR:
Town Lean: raeko, haku
Null: Freezin, roundbox, Gal, Duc, Lewdy, Lar
Wolf Lean: sun

If I had to pick both wolves right now or lose the game I go with sun/Lar here but I am still open to opinions.

some notes:

I don't think it is fruitful at all to speculate on galax's likelihood of being a wolf or not. I remember looking at some data from another site on whether or not 100% afk players were more likely to be wolves or not, and is was something like 2% more likely than random (which imo is within the acceptable margin of error but it was cited as fact to me more than once)

this is simply a question, but how do you feel about someone potentially saying that Beez feels more townie for not trying to force townreads when they were claiming to have none? Would a wolf that is trying to blend in want to at least look like they're giving something rather than nothing? I'm not saying this is my read or not, just asking you.

I didn't notice Lar not responding to your list, I'll have to check the veracity there, but if true, I think that is indeed important and slightly wolfy.

I would not say that I want new players off the table, but I want people to be able to do what they want in this game, if that makes more sense. I definitely had a convo before this game began about how I really, really didn't want any new player to feel left out. Getting mislynched in a normal game is pretty bad for new players (or even correctly killed sometimes), but this game, to me, had the potential to be even worse because it can be extended over phases and phases of nothing but denial. I worried for the sake of new players in that regard. I hope that this makes sense.

[Hakulyte]

I suppose that's true yes...Everyone has a genuine reason to move along from the game when you word it like that

Let me ask you a question Haku...

Would the situation be a bit different had this same scenario played out later on? Or are you struggling to make a decision here because it's so early?

I just woke up earlier. Also, I thought you wanted time. You got time.
The part where we wait and see how things plays out is now imo.

Doing the trust fall part near the end of the 72 hours period is bad imo because you want time to process that part of the game.
I was in a rush to reach this part of the game. I am not in a rush to end it tho.

[the sun fan]

margin of error
whatever the right term is
sample size, idk
it was not significant enough to make me want to care
idk if this has ever been done on FFR and I don't particularly care to do it myself

[Shadow_God_10]

I just woke up earlier. Also, I thought you wanted time. You got time.
The part where we wait and see how things plays out is now imo.

Doing the trust fall part near the end of the 72 hours period is bad imo because you want time to process that part of the game.
I was in a rush to reach this part of the game. I am not in a rush to end it tho.

I think what I was getting at, and rather poorly, was would you have been more keen to lean on a trust in maybe the second or third checkpoint?

Not necessarily this one. That's on me for not clarifying

[Hakulyte]

Something something wolves voting someone in the last 10 minutes of a game and then town panic.

It looks funny because it's the first checkpoint, but I assure you, you guys will struggle to not procrastinate later on as it becomes more and more difficult to find another town player.

Part of me thinks Sunfan wants to exit early to give a chance to the new players to play the game and also 'cause he joined last minute to fill the game.
They're not good reasons for an alignment, but that's the vibe I get.

[the sun fan]

yeah as far as I can tell, Lar didn't meaningfully interact with anyone about their top 3 towns after prompting people for them
I know he is at work, but for someone trying to get the ball rolling and make people feel welcome, this does feel like a rather bad look