TWG XXII - Vampire Melee - GAME OVER

[alainbryden]

This Is Chardish (10:19:04 PM): Talisman.
(2 pages)
stressreliefball (6:15:18 PM): I wasn't a wolf btw

and that's it.

*Note: Certain sections may have been fabricated or altered in the event of wolf.


Pardon the conspiracy theory, but don't put it past the big twg player aspiree to fake several amounts of conversation to undermine Chardish's message plan. He already almost had the whole message figured out. All he had to see was T_ _ _ M _ _ or _ A _ _ _ A _ or something to see his name in the message/ See, I'm just doing this because I don't understand the reason that Chardish did ALL THIS to let it be known that if he dies, it's because he told something important to Talisman, and then, for no apparent reason whatsoever, he decides that:

This Is Chardish (5:02:52 PM): I trust you're human.

I don't actually think you have all that in you, Just tell me why Chardish went from contriving a huge overkill function of letters to say you're a wolf, to trusting you completely?

[JurseyRider734]

Just to let you all know, I was looking through TWGXV last night (when Alain was the MW with Chardish and Tps), and when we all started to suspect Alain he was posting just like he is now. Digging up some kind of evidence (true or not), and making multiple, multiple posts in a row. Not sure if this means anything, but I thought i'd point that out.

[Tasselfoot]

What I'd like to know is.... why are you "defending" yourself SOOOO much, when you have 1 vote on you?

[alainbryden]

Eva, I have one long post defending myself, the rest are attacks and direct responses to other topics raised in other peoples' posts. Also note that it is late in night and I had time to cover any disagreements I had in the past couple of posts, as no one else was posting. Keep things in context.
Also Eva, while we are talking about keeping things in context, why don't you go back to the few games that I was human, and discover that, oh my god, he always posts alot. I don't really know how you could remember otherwise. Especially when I'm trying to make a point. There, isn't it nice not using selective examples to prove your point.

Allow me to illustrate your logical fallicy, because I think it's fun.
There are 20 objects, 5 are round and blue, 5 are round and red, 5 are square and blue, 5 are square and red.
Eva comes around and says "look, these 5 balls are red, and they are ALL round. Therefore all round objects are red."
This simply is not true and is called False For-All Introduction.

Don't make that mistake again.


Tass, allthough I only had one vote from you (something to be reckoned with anyhow, because you are an influential voter,) there were a great many people such as Afrobean, fishfishrevolution and JurseyRider who were questioning my integrity in chat off the forums. Don't think you're the only one who made the same dumb assumptions they did, you were just the only one dumb enough to put a vote on it.
Finally Tass, I could have easily defended myself with any one of those wonderful pieces of evidence, but like you, I enjoy showing off. Why demonstrate your ignorance in one little example when I can really hit it home and give some 10 reasons to make you feel like a jackass?

[HansSky]

Ok, enough of this pansy shit. This PM garbage has gotten us nowhere fast, so I've decided to come out.

I am the seer. I seer'd Chardish last night (awesome, right?), the night 1 seering came back green but they might be master wolf.

Am I the only one that finds it painfully obvious that Afro isn't the real seer? Jurs and I were talking, and I find it plausible that Afro knew that Chardish was the real seer, and thought he could pull this off. Is it just a coincidence that he seered a dead person? I'm assuming he won't tell us who he saw night 1 for safety purposes, but he has given absolutely no proof that he is the seer as of now.

[talisman]

Alain I can't speak for chardish, I know that he told me he trust me in the beginning and he still did at the end. He was correct in his trust, and the idea behind his plan was pretty simple and would have worked if he'd masked his style better and no one had talked about it. If he didn't die: he was in an alliance with hopefully a known human or at least a wolf that's too afraid to kill him because he knows he'll get lynched because of it. I'm not sure, but I'm assuming chardish meant to repeat this plan with someone else, each time implicating one more person, each night. That's a pure educated guess though, he told me nothing of the sort.

And it's clear why he picked someone he trusted... he didn't actually want to get killed. Since his plan was busted already though due to the fact that it had his fingerprints written all over it AND that so much discussion and revealing of the pms occurred it became completely ineffective. That the messages implicate me means nothing now because, like you said, literally EVERYONE assumed chardish wrote them.

To recap:

-I don't know specifically why chardish trusted me because I'm not chardish. Obviously I do know that he was right.
-The fact that the pms implicate me means nothing anymore because the plan was busted.
-The plan being busted was partially chardish's fault because it was so obvious due to the style of the pm and the whole complex nature of the business who wrote it.
-Furthermore, the plan being busted was also largely due to all that discussion in the chat (which I've now lost... thanks AIM) and the revealing of the pms there.

By the way nothing was altered in my conversation with chardish, there were only omissions designed to keep information from the wolves.

[talisman]

Alain, what do you think my posting that convo with chardish was for?

This reiterates my point that you can't just post 8000 word conversations assuming that someone will analyse it entirely and see evidence for your opinion. It doesn't work that way. Either summarise and quote, or hilight. Be reasonable.

I wasn't referencing a specific point in the convo, that's why I didn't repost some part of it... I was talking about the POSTING of the convo itself, which I think is exactly what that sentence says. My posting of the convo before the code got cracked or whatever CLEARLY shows that I was concerned about the results of the pm code and that I wanted the truth to get out there as soon as possible, and you were trying to pretend like I had completely ignored it.

[alainbryden]

Talisman - Understood and cleared. Thankyou.

HansSky - A possibility, yes. And a very slim one, but this is not at all painfully obvious, let alone likely. But since it is still a possibility, I will leave your accusation of him un-countered and see how he justifies himself.

[Tasselfoot]

Ok Alain... I spent the night in Philly instead of going back to NY last night, so I took an early trip up today... as such, I didn't read everything written late last night extremely thoroughly. Let me do that now, and see if I can't pick apart your evidence in "showing off" fashion.


ONE - Middle of page 11, Fish comments on how you were more forceful than himself or Jurs in regards to the PM's contents... and a convo to back it up (to some extent). Time stamps on that chat would have been nice, so see how long between breaks things came up, etc. Fish comments on how you shouldn't be doing it, then your comments bring him back in. You also are quick to throw in extreme suspicion to the validity of the PM coming from a blue.



TWO - I decided to read the whole chat log from the middle of Sunday that talisman posted....

NEIGH006 (1:54:02 PM): I was pretty confident about Q getting lynched
NEIGH006 (1:54:41 PM): I don't feel right about Chardish because I think Q was a wolf
NEIGH006 (1:54:50 PM): and Chardish was all about 'half assed' defending him
NEIGH006 (1:54:56 PM): ]not being explicit, but suggesting
NEIGH006 (1:55:01 PM): to everyone, repeatedly
NEIGH006 (1:55:12 PM): and then we all go and get those little pm's, that make no sense
NEIGH006 (1:55:21 PM): It looks like a big ploy

Again, throwing both doubt on Chardish AND attacking Q, who despite me having to get him killed... was almost certainly not a wolf. I think most people would agree on that, including Jurs, who agreed to change her vote to save me because she thought I was more help than Q in the long run (and because she doesn't like Q, but that is besides the point, I hope).

THREE - A little further down in the convo:

NEIGH006 (1:56:05 PM): you know, that proud_2_b_blue person
NEIGH006 (1:56:08 PM): come on
NEIGH006 (1:56:22 PM): That's such &*#$
NEIGH006 (1:56:27 PM): "follow my directions"
NEIGH006 (1:56:36 PM): that's like "watch me set up these jerks"
NEIGH006 (1:56:50 PM): I have a feeling that whoever didn't get a pm is being set up as a wolf
NEIGH006 (1:57:04 PM): so whoever didn't get something from proud2beblue should speak up

Talking to Chardish, his explanation is in the convo that I posted. Basically, it was 8 different people, and it was mostly random... but those who he was more suspicious of at the time, myself included, didn't get one.

THREE B - Not related to Alain... just to point out. This was the 1st spot where a non-PMer asked for information from the PM:

mastr414 (2:02:45 PM): anyone care to share what this says
QreepyBORIS (2:03:00 PM): Yeah, copy paste that motherfucker in here.
NEIGH006 (2:03:04 PM): no

I include Alain's comments because to not do so would to only include half of a story. I'm confident in Alain being a wolf, but should he NOT be one... well, I'll include evidence that supports both sides.

FOUR - Here Alain and Blah are arguing, on somewhat seperate points, but are definately taking opposite stances:

mastr414 (2:03:39 PM): from now on
QreepyBORIS (2:03:40 PM): And NOT red?
mastr414 (2:03:45 PM): i'm going to insist no anonymous PM's
QreepyBORIS (2:03:47 PM): If they are sending PMs to ...5 people?
NEIGH006 (2:03:47 PM): maybe whoever sent it is blue
mastr414 (2:03:52 PM): it defeats the whole point of the game of mafia
NEIGH006 (2:03:55 PM): maybe they are a wolf trying to set some people up
NEIGH006 (2:04:00 PM): we can't assume either

FOUR B - Qreepy is acting rather... odd as well. This line sums it up:

QreepyBORIS (2:12:17 PM): I bet it was sent out by a wolf...and one of them is gonna die.

One of them references 3 people who aren't included in the list of people in the PMs. Since then, it was realized that only Chardish was left out... but that isn't the point. Also as a note, Alain is again continuing his mantra from above. No need to keep posting examples of it.

FIVE Slightly different reasoning as to why a wolf had to send the PM:

NEIGH006 (2:13:22 PM): maybe they want those 5 people to trust in them and vote for whoever this message sets up
NEIGH006 (2:13:28 PM): but here's the thing
NEIGH006 (2:13:42 PM): no blue even, would know for sure that these 5 people were human
NEIGH006 (2:13:47 PM): only a wolf would no that
NEIGH006 (2:13:50 PM): *know

FIVE B Points in Blah's corner and more negatives for Alain, but again... there is a clear difference between the two:

mastr414 (2:14:45 PM): i'm going on the concept that a red didn't make it
NEIGH006 (2:14:48 PM): scott
NEIGH006 (2:14:50 PM): that's stupid

SIX This is an interesting dialogue:

mastr414 (2:15:17 PM): alain: here's the assumption
mastr414 (2:15:18 PM): a blue made it
NEIGH006 (2:15:21 PM): okay
NEIGH006 (2:15:24 PM): assuming that, then what
mastr414 (2:15:25 PM): jurs's email says to send to a,b
mastr414 (2:15:28 PM): she sends it to c,d
mastr414 (2:15:37 PM): no one would know a switch was made
NEIGH006 (2:15:38 PM): okay, what then
mastr414 (2:15:41 PM): except the author
mastr414 (2:15:52 PM): ok
NEIGH006 (2:15:54 PM): so, and why wouldn't a wolf just comply
mastr414 (2:15:56 PM): i was gonna yell at you in all caps
mastr414 (2:16:01 PM): because if the wolves know they didn't make it
mastr414 (2:16:09 PM): then it has to have some place
mastr414 (2:16:20 PM): by definition if the wolves didn't make it, they don't want to facilitate its delivery
NEIGH006 (2:16:56 PM): so, you think this whole thing is to see if one of the five people are wolves, just by seing if they do what they're told by an anonymous person?
mastr414 (2:17:02 PM): I have no clue
mastr414 (2:17:05 PM): I'm just postulating

SEVEN - At 2:19, Alain posts the PM in the chat, minus the code stuff... Qreepy asked Alain what was in the body, Alain posted it.

SEVEN B - Blah starts the process to figure out the chain of the PM. As Chardish called it... the Double Helix's:

mastr414 (2:21:15 PM): is everyone willing to share the chain of who they are supp to receive from
mastr414 (2:21:17 PM): and who they are supp to send to
mastr414 (2:21:20 PM): lets see if its a circle

EIGHT More conspiracy theories. This time Jurs joins in the fun!

NEIGH006 (2:33:30 PM): is seems like they are planning to kill someone tonight
xtrialanderror x (2:33:31 PM): maybe chardish is the vamp seer
xtrialanderror x (2:33:34 PM): and he saw a blue.
NEIGH006 (2:33:34 PM): and then something else changes
xtrialanderror x (2:33:35 PM): or something
QreepyBORIS (2:33:41 PM): But as contingency they have a wolf in the circle
QreepyBORIS (2:33:42 PM): I bet
NEIGH006 (2:33:43 PM): and they start the chain reaction


OK. THAT WAS ALL FROM THE CONVO IN THE CHAT.... NOW, LETS MOVE ONTO ALAIN'S POSTS!

He starts posting on Page 12:

First Post of Alain's on Page 12

I know no one will ever bother reading that entire chat room conversation, which is a pitty because I'm sure there's lots in there to indicate that I'm green.

Wrong! I just read the whole thing, and just about NOTHING indicates you are green. In fact, if you thought things in there would make you look green, YOU'D have posted them, considering you've posted just about everything else.

and no one has my back right now.

No one has your back? Well... no, no one does. Probably for 2 reasons... 1. only about 4 people are "attacking" you, the other 8 aren't saying much in regards to ANYTHING. 2. Your wolf buddy(ies) see you're FUBAR'd, and are working for damage control.

1) If there was a clear way to $*%# up the messages, it would have been to bare all in public and say something like "this must be &*#$ guys" which is precisely what I didn't do.

Actually... that IS what you did, so to speak... you worked very hard to decipher the message, because only a wolf would FEAR what the message had to say. And, it didn't take "baring all" to fuck it up, you guys figured out more than enough to fuck it up. Otherwise, Chardish never would have come to me.

2) This is flawed because chardish told way to many people about "his role" which is likely true if he was killed, (only alternative being that he was a wolf and made the setup for an overall wolf win), so the message can't even be meaningful because more than Talisman new this "secret information"

Again, wrong. Chardish sent the PMs out Sunday evening... didn't tell ANYONE about his role until well after all this chaos started. He tried to contact Talisman last night, but didn't get in touch with him until about 5pm, as per the log. By 6:30 he came to me. He also went to Fish around the same time (I'm assuming), revealing less (if I recall correctly...). The point is, there was about 20 hours of time in which NO ONE knew anything concrete about the PMs.

3) Providing that chardish's plan was clearly executed, it would have resulted in a big hype and no information at all, since there's way of knowing through what was executed who is more trust worthy, and it would be naive for anyone to make any conclusions as a direct consequence of what chardish wanted us to think.

Yes and no. You are the one who started all the doubt as to whether or not this came from a blue. Nothing public came out about it maybe NOT coming from a real blue, until you brought it up. So, you don't bring it up, chances are it goes as likely coming from a blue. Someone else could have mentioned it, but... well, you did. AND... it is not naive to take conclusions based on information given from an assumed blue. Blues are here for us to listen to.

All of this is overwhelming evidence for why even if I had attempted to, I wouldn't have messed anything up, and it only would have made me look like a wolf.

Are you missing all the facts that you ARE the one who messed this up? Not solely, but if I had to point a finger at a leader... someone to take majority blame... its you buddy.

1) All I did was tried to peice together enough info to try and figure out if it was a fake thing or to be trusted. That wouldn't screw anything up under normal interpretation of the letter. Once we discovered that the message had something to do with "who killed me" I'm the one that pressed that we don't find out the name.

Where do you press to NOT reveal the name? I don't see that anywhere in Fish's log of the secret chat. And we've now seen that piecing the info together was enough to screw it up. Stop acting like it wasn't.

2) I told one person that I thought the messages were chardish. (Eva) Upon which she fully agreed with me. Everyone else already knew, or even told me thinking I was too dumb to figure it out. It was obvious, that's no reason to think I'm a wolf. I didn't know any better than any of the other people who got the message.

Wrong. You clearly state IN THE MAIN CHAT, on more than one occasion, how it was Chardish. Not denying it was obviously Chardish... just that what you are saying isn't true, which is more important, IMO. You're using information that is not true as justification for your humanity.

3) I partially disobeyed it because it looked like a big setup, but I by no means pushed to outright disobey the letter. I knew, and expressed, that it was critical not to reveal the message, in case it was true, but not to trust it without substantial understanding of its purpose and credibility, incase it was false.

Fine... this is true.

4) I just solved "Important information ... Who Killed me" from the message, with the full participation of Eva and Fish. After that I planned to and did stop, completely. Because that's what I wanted to know. I wanted to know what the message was about, but not who it was about.

The convo doesn't say this. It doesn't give any reasoning behind why it stopped... so, you can claim one thing. No way to know if it is true or not. My guess is you couldn't get your hands on enough of the middle to solve it.

Also, the conversation you posted happened in a chat AFTER DAY 2 STARTED... so it doesn't prove anything. It is just you trying to explain what happened. Personally, I'm much happier looking at the chat log of WHAT HAPPENED, instead of the chat log of WHAT YOU SAY HAPPENED after the fact.



2nd post of Page 12... the ATTACK!

JurseyRider is, in my mind, undoubtably human. I know I make this assumption in many games that I talk to her, but that is because I am able to know her as a person, and her pattern of thinking. Besides, it is obvious even to the unpassionate eye that her complete trust in the pm's (naive as it may have been) is something very excusing. She is the type of person chardish targetted. A green human, awed by the complexity of the message, and, allthough she was critical of its integrity, Eva believed more than anyone I talked to about it that it was important to give away as little as possible of the letters to anyone. This trust in her, actually, encouraged me at first to give away so much of my pm to her, ironically.

Almost completely true... but, I wouldn't say she had completely trust in the PMs. As per the one or two lines of log I posted above. But, ok... I agree with you here.

FishFishRevolution had me weary when in some points of the personal chat between Jursey, him and I, he, at some points, pushed harder or initiated further discovery of the message than I did. At first I thought he was trying to ruin it, but then he showed restraint. Perhaps it was the restraint of a wolf not wanting to be seen for what he is attempting, but mostly I'm sure he was just curious as I was as to the subject of the encryption, as well as the chain of people to be traversed.

Where you reading the same chat log that I read? Fish clearly states that he wanted to stop... of the 3 of you, he was the most restrained. Otherwise... decent enough.

Talisman is, for some reason, completely underplaying the fact that the letter was saying that if Chardish died, he is a wolf. Chardish died, so why is he not being attacked? Who knows, there are, at this point, some very vague reasons for why Chardish may have been incorrect. Providing Chardish was human and when to such extents for that message, why would we have a reason to take one word for it that he was wrong. Explore this more. I, for instance, think it's awful that Talisman is using the lack of attention to this fact, and ignoring it also, and I'm sure he's just cringing that someone actually tries to take what Chardish asserted seriously. So I prod again at Talisman, who has my vote, and my recommendation to describe why in the world we shouldn't believe the message.

You're kidding.... right? Does the fact that Chardish went to Talisman to try and STOP the message from actually getting out prove nothing? It doesn't change the fact that Talisman COULD be a wolf... but it certainly changes Chardish's perception of him, thereby negating the information in the PM.

Afrobean seems like a credible seer. Everyone knows that if you come out as seer, 1) you will be guarded if one is alive. 2) If anyone else comes out as seer, it will be glaringly obvious, always, who is the real seer. The fake one always slips up. Always. The act of coming out is proof enough for me. If anyone else makes this claim, we will know easily whether or not they are truthful.

Makes sense... proven by my failed attempt in TWG20... don't see how this helps you though. It just brings more attention to afro's role and the guardian.

Tasselfoot, who put a vote on me, is right out of his mind. He picked me out of a long list of people who got the message, and tried to figure it out instead of just blindly accepting it. He has been an incredibly indescernable character so far this game. After talking to me early in the game and gaining surface trust, he showed this connection in the forums and was critisized for it. It seems that as a direct result, he is trying to push himself away from me under the assumption that I will be found a wolf and make him look like one also. This would be a human thing. The other possibility is that he is infact a wolf, and clung to me, a smart human, in the beginning to have crediblility later in the game, but getting suspicion for that, he decided to go with the opposite. You can't be so two-faced Tasselfoot.

1. I'm always 2-faced... helps keep me alive. 2. I talked to alot of players in the game... and considering you were one of the few NOT attacking me on day 1, I thought you'd be more willing to help me. 3. I clearly didn't put a vote on you by randomly picking you out of the list. I think this post by itself is explanation of that.

Flypie, what were you thinking in consciously taking a phantom? It is the most unreasonable thing to do. This is what I figure. You are smart, but not too smart. FAR too smart to not realise how hurtful it is, you know the rules, and you know that it's smarter just to vote yourself. This being said, I think you're dim enough that, as a wolf, you would think taking a phantom would make you seem human, becase no wolf would let that happen to themselves, for fear of lynching later. You wouldn't realise the inconsistency in that humans have just as much reason to avoid a phantom. Phantom's are a punishment, they are not an option. Coming out of day one I was sure this made you a wolf, but there are many alternatives and your realative importance is not a threat. (Please don't take this as an insult.)

I agree...



Unfortunately, this has taken me an hour so far to do. And I'm not finished. BUT, I have class to get to. I'll finish up after I get home... in about 2 hours.

[FishFishRevolution]

If anyone wants the full "secret chat" log, I have it, and am willing to post it, as well as a short conversation I had with alain before hand where we pieced about 4 letters at the end together. If anything, it puts more suspicion on me, but it shows some other things alain said

AIM IM with alainbryden <neigh006>.
10/23/05, 3:43 PM
alainbryden: does illuminate mean anything to you?
FishFishRevolution: nope
FishFishRevolution: what do you mean?
alainbryden: how about cat or hot wateR?
FishFishRevolution: neither
alainbryden: okay
alainbryden: so you're not at the end of the chain
alainbryden: this shit is confusing
FishFishRevolution: yeah it is
4:15 PM
FishFishRevolution: okay
FishFishRevolution: here's what I keep thinking over and over
FishFishRevolution: what's the point?
FishFishRevolution: a wolf could just as easily follow these directions as a human could
FishFishRevolution: then again, we don't know the whole deal
FishFishRevolution: what what does the message signify? how does that matter one way or another?
alainbryden: that's what I was telling everyone
alainbryden: I know
FishFishRevolution: what is there to gain?
FishFishRevolution: what is there to lose?
alainbryden: and what is the difference if chardish messaged a wolf?
FishFishRevolution: so you send a message to jurs, who sends a message to me
alainbryden: or if that was the plan, messaged no wolves?
alainbryden: or is a wolf?
alainbryden: or messaged several wolves?
alainbryden: how would that change his plan
FishFishRevolution: the only thing i could think of
FishFishRevolution: was that the wolves would think twice about who to kill
FishFishRevolution: after all the names are brought to light
FishFishRevolution: is it in their favor to keep the said individuals alive?
alainbryden: that may be
FishFishRevolution: or to kill them to make sure the chain breaks
alainbryden: that could be
FishFishRevolution: is chardish betting on one of them being wolves?
alainbryden: maybe Chardish is protecting people?
FishFishRevolution: is he betting on the fact that people will think it's a trap and share their codes prematurely?
4:20 PM
alainbryden: maybe
alainbryden: but the first word was "important"
FishFishRevolution: yeah
FishFishRevolution: i think so
FishFishRevolution: i have the very last letter two
FishFishRevolution: you jurs and I have the last three letters
FishFishRevolution: too*
FishFishRevolution: i mean
alainbryden: want to make the last word?
FishFishRevolution: the only way this could work is if
FishFishRevolution: OH
FishFishRevolution: you know what
FishFishRevolution: if he's the seer
FishFishRevolution: and this is all going to show us who a wolf is
FishFishRevolution: without giving him away
FishFishRevolution: or something liek that
FishFishRevolution: that's the only way I can think of that would make this thing make sense
FishFishRevolution: is if he knew something we didn't
FishFishRevolution: something big
alainbryden: that may be
alainbryden: you know what
alainbryden: that's pretty smart
alainbryden: BUT
alainbryden: it could be a wolf setup
FishFishRevolution: yes
FishFishRevolution: it all could be
alainbryden: and the person we are going to think was seen is ahuman
FishFishRevolution: is actually
FishFishRevolution: MASTER
FishFishRevolution: or something
alainbryden: want to make the last word? [pushing it again]
alainbryden: that could be
FishFishRevolution: i want to make the last word, but I'm not as confident with your humanity
FishFishRevolution: as I think I should be
FishFishRevolution: not that I have any reason not to be, but guilty until proven innocent, you know?
alainbryden: yeah
FishFishRevolution: what the hell, let's both post our letter
alainbryden: wait, the whole thing?
FishFishRevolution: no
alainbryden: okay
FishFishRevolution: just the last letter you have
FishFishRevolution: E is the very last letter in the phrase
alainbryden: *_ _ _M_
FishFishRevolution: _ _ _ E
FishFishRevolution: ME
FishFishRevolution: should we get jurs's?
4:25 PM
alainbryden: _ D M E
alainbryden: so it's ***D ME
alainbryden: me is the last word
FishFishRevolution: Gaurd me?
alainbryden: oooh
FishFishRevolution: hmm
FishFishRevolution: that doesn't go with my other letter i don't think
alainbryden: no
alainbryden: dioesn't fit
alainbryden: LEAD ME?
FishFishRevolution: nope
FishFishRevolution: doesn't fit
alainbryden: kay
FishFishRevolution: i think it'
FishFishRevolution: EDME
FishFishRevolution: btw
FishFishRevolution: just based off what i have
FishFishRevolution: like
FishFishRevolution: the second to last word is a verb in the past tense

I really didn't want to share information with a possible wolf, but didn't think any harm could come of the LAST three letters. As I've already said, I'm guilty on the charge of curiosity, not to mention I wasn't sure it was a real blue plan.

[FishFishRevolution]

http://www.r2computers.net/neverseven/secretchat.rtf

It's not full because of smilie faces, so if you see a blank entry, that's what it is. I think jurs has another version if she saved it to cross reference it.

Just if you want to read it.

Oh and the main chatroom from where talis left it off when I entered. This included the defense that alain spoke of he made in the chat towards the end.

http://www.r2computers.net/neverseven/mainchatoct23.rtf

By the way: It's REALLY long.

[QreepyBORIS]

Corroborrating the first bit of evidence that Tass uses against Alain regarding alain's second past on page 12, I seem to remember Jurs saying that she would refuse to post the PM in the forums for (insert reason here [actually, I don't remember her specifying a reason]).

Also, regarding my "odd" behavior, I was brainstorming a little bit on the situation, and I suppose I came up with some crap. I thought it was reasonable to assume that one of the people who got the PM would drop (but I think this was before we knew many of the details...if it wasn't I think my comment regarded my idea that the whole PM was just an enormous red herring).

Just to get that out of the way. :P

[flypie743]

I would've changed to Tass, but I didn't refresh fast enough, mofos. After I posed I was like wtf I dont want a phantom, but I was too late. Oh well, just a game, just a vote; I don't really care anymore.

[JurseyRider734]

Obviously, as we can see, Tass>Q. Tass seems pretty human to me, unless the "seer" can PROVE otherwise.

[alainbryden]

Your wolf buddy(ies) see you're FUBAR'd, and are working for damage control.

Well Tass, your smacking evidence has me absolutely cornered here. Lynch away.

Everything you've said, I've already argued against, and you're used nothing but logical fallacies to step around them. Learn to reason. That's such a pile of bullshit that I don't even have the time in my day to dig through it.


That being said I'm going to anyways.

Where do you press to NOT reveal the name? I don't see that anywhere in Fish's log of the secret chat.

That's because you're selective.

alainbryden: IMPORTANT IN_ _ R * _ _ _ * _ _ _ * _ _ _ * _ _ _ * _ _ _ F _ _ _ S _ _ _ * _ _ WHO KILLED ME
FishFishRevolution: it's important to figure out who killed him
alainbryden: is it?
...
alainbryden: we should not find out who he's suspicious of

Oh he really took a dump on this one.

You clearly state IN THE MAIN CHAT, on more than one occasion, how it was Chardish. Not denying it was obviously Chardish... just that what you are saying isn't true, which is more important, IMO. You're using information that is not true as justification for your humanity.

Wrong again idiot. I told eva what I thought, I didn't tell the chat once, and then Eva told the entire chat.
JurseyRider734: then alain im's me later
JurseyRider734: and he starts telling me how its chardish
JurseyRider734: and put up evidence on why it was him
This is indeed where she got it from. But notice that chardish's name was only mentioned twice in the chat before the Jursey went on the huge announcement. First by talisman and then later by me, during a point when only Eva and Fish and I were in chat, and I said it in a context that didn't imply a certainty of chardish at all. Not to mention that no one read it. Another big fat lie AS WELL as a statement that I lied. How could you dare going out on such a limb without even checking your facts. What a lazy asshole.


And wait, let me play a game I call the IFS of Tass.

if you thought things in there would make you look green, YOU'D have posted them

I did, and just did again, and you ignored them because you have a one track ignorant mind.

if I had to point a finger at a leader... someone to take majority blame... its you buddy.

That doesn't say much, considering you never once backed up that statement reasonably.

IMO. You're using information that is not true as justification for your humanity.

It's a good thing I'm so aware of how wrong your opinion is.

(Quotes me...) Fine... this is true.

And also a point that destroys most of your poor reasoning in retrospect. I should have put that one first.

No way to know if it is true or not. My guess is you couldn't get your hands on enough of the middle to solve it.

Thank Heavens my evidence, citations, and logical reasoning is worth more than your guess.

Also, the conversation you posted happened in a chat AFTER DAY 2 STARTED... so it doesn't prove anything.

That's bullshit, if I can't use things I said to prove my intentions were good from that conversation, how the hell do you get off quoting that same discussion and using out-of-context citations to try to reason your ill-conceived suspicions?

Now this is my favorite for sure:

But, ok... I agree with you here.

decent enough.

Fine... this is true.

Makes sense... proven by my failed attempt in TWG20... don't see how this helps you though. It just brings more attention to afro's role and the guardian.

(I wasn't trying to help myself you fool, this was after I moved on from the self defence)

I'm always 2-faced

I agree...

In all the above quotes where you either reiterated my words, or just flat out agreed with me, you quoted a total of 1 and a half pages at font size 9 from me.
I hope you don't think that by quoting my every word and agreeing with me a shitload counts as evidence against me. You're all show. I only had to look up one fresh peice of evidence to make every relevant piece of your essay obsolete.

Try again when you've had your neurons re-wired.