FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

[00Razor00]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

I'm giving facts, when most of the people here are just saying LOL THIS FILE IS "x" DIFFICULTY PUT IT DOWN BECAUSE I AAA'D AND IT'S SUPER EASY.

QFT

[hi19hi19]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

cry me a river, I have an opinion that's supported by facts contained within charts themselves

I'm not acting like the boy who cried wolf, I'm actually showing you that there's a goddamn wolf right in front of you (analogous for I'm giving facts, when most of the people here are just saying LOL THIS FILE IS "x" DIFFICULTY PUT IT DOWN BECAUSE I AAA'D AND IT'S SUPER EASY).

To be fair, I've given plenty of counter examples. The simplicity of the patterns compared to other 10s and 9s in the borderline region, the fact it's got more common patterns and thus a lot more familiar to members who have been playing other 9s and 10s, the fact it has no severe difficulty spikes, etc etc. While you are free to disagree, I'd prefer if you not pretend like because your "opinion" is supported by facts that instantly makes all other "opinions" that are also supported by facts irrelevant.
I realize I tend to place a lot of value on pattern, and you view that as wrong... but please understand I'm clearly not the only one who thinks this way, at the very least acknowledge there could be something to the arguments I'm making before dismissing them.


Also the wolf, as you say, doesn't appear to be half as intimidating as you're making it out to be- just look at the AAA count. There's obviously lots of people in the intended skill range of D4 players that also share the opinion that it's rather easy. Results matter, and there's your facts written right there in green on the tournament dashboard.


~subjectivemanias.
Before you accuse me of trying to start drama- I'm fine with leaving it as a 10, as obviously it's very difficult for some people and not others. I'm more concerned with the manner in which the debate or lack thereof is being carried out than the actual result of it.
And besides, I tend to agree with the Tasselfoot policy of always rate files too high. Much less of an issue to give people maybe a little extra credit for their accomplishment than it is to not give enough.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

I'm not even arguing over specific song difficulties, I'm arguing about the logic that some people are using to get the difficulty changed.

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[Choofers]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

Please let me know when you guys are willing to make a legitimate discussion involving song difficulties.

I did, a couple pages back about switching the D3 and D4 song

granted, I did mention nps but that hardly matters because both songs are very close in terms of nps.

for the most part I agree with the difficulties for the files, but with elegante and Velocity... I really think they should be switched (if this can't happen, switch the in-game rating for them). if you want me to go in depth, I can

[Emithith]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

I think if someone from now on-- imo-- wants a difficulty lowered on a song (wont even change the file, but w/f/e) they need to cite two good examples of songs that are harder than it in a lower difficulty range.

[hi19hi19]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

I'm not even arguing over specific song difficulties, I'm arguing about the logic that some people are using to get the difficulty changed.

Oh well in that case carry on.
I agree with you that "lol i think its ez move it down" is a non-argument.

Citing facts supporting that it's easy (patterns, AAA count among the intended players, etc) is a much more solid way of coming to an answer.
And I have given my argument already, so I don't have much more to contribute now.

[psychoangel691]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

Oh well in that case carry on.
I agree with you that "lol i think its ez move it down" is a non-argument.

Citing facts supporting that it's easy (patterns, AAA count among the intended players, etc) is a much more solid way of coming to an answer.

And this is the biggest thing right here. Most people don't give any reasoning other than "I find it easy or hard". At the very least if you can't come up with technical mumbo jumbo for it, give examples of songs in game it's comparable to.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

I did, a couple pages back about switching the D3 and D4 song

granted, I did mention nps but that hardly matters because both songs are very close in terms of nps.

for the most part I agree with the difficulties for the files, but with elegante and Velocity... I really think they should be switched (if this can't happen, switch the in-game rating for them). if you want me to go in depth, I can

you were fine to begin with.

NPS is a good objective rating for songs, there's just one problem - songs littered with high amounts of jumps at low speeds (elegante) can match up to songs with overall faster pace/lower density (Velocity). Considering the circumstances - if you were to put Elegante in D4, it'd get absolutely murdered. The file is barely a 9 outside of the few tricky bursts and the four note 16th jump-glut into a triple. Giving Velocity to D3 unfairly weeds out the weak by forcing fast streaming/jumpstreaming down their throats, whereas elegante forces people to practice by giving them an overall tricky pattern set that gives everyone difficulty (see Dashboard).

Granted, D4 is doing exceedingly well this round, they'd all probably do just as well on elegante.

EDIT: example of where NPS is an error - consider a lower level player coming across 150 BPM 8th note jumps and 150 BPM 16th note stream; chances are, a player at that level might not be able to handle 10 TPS raw, unlayered, but they might be able to handle straight 8th jumps since two taps are done cohesively at 5 TPS.

[who_cares973]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

TC_Halogen smells like poop

[Ryusei_]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

And this is the biggest thing right here. Most people don't give any reasoning other than "I find it easy or hard". At the very least if you can't come up with technical mumbo jumbo for it, give examples of songs in game it's comparable to.

I did too, actually. But that's one of those things people seem to be willing to overlook. I've quoted the number of AAAs comparably the first time and when I brought up the discussion that took place in profile chat about a comparable song...

I promptly got a LOLNOYOU'REWONG reply.

GG.

[psychoangel691]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

I did too, actually. But that's one of those things people seem to be willing to overlook. I've quoted the number of AAAs comparably the first time and when I brought up the discussion that took place in profile chat about a comparable song...

I promptly got a LOLNOYOU'REWONG reply.

GG.

That's profile chat and was it staff that said it? If it's in prochat and I'm not there I can't exactly see it to add into the discussion that's going on.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

I did too, actually. But that's one of those things people seem to be willing to overlook. I've quoted the number of AAAs comparably the first time and when I brought up the discussion that took place in profile chat about a comparable song...

I promptly got a LOLNOYOU'REWONG reply.

GG.

you never even made an objective argument about the files. this was the closest thing:

D3: It's a fun file and a little trickier than I would see most 9's. The random green (64th?) notes in the beginning felt a little weird and out of place to me, kinda one of those things where they're thrown in just for the sake of having them rather than them actually having a place

then

Using this logic, does this mean that difficulty wise....Fall Silently is harder than Velocity? If we're talking strictly based on scores gotten by the masses, this seems to be the case so far. It's seeming to me that Velocity is more of a high 9 than a 10

Ichliebekase pointed out in profile chat that Champion Freeverse (a 9) is a very comparable file to Velocity (Same song Author, same stepfile artist) and has a pretty similar feel

while this does stimulate discussion, it's arguing difficulty off of a subjective standpoint and isn't helpful at all.

so don't come in saying that either.

EDIT: if you made an off-forum argument, we're obviously not going to remember about it because this is where the center of discussion is

[who_cares973]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

I swear if I haveto quote my post with the analogy I will ryusei

[Ryusei_]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

K well I sightread AAA'd Champion Freeverse and here I am 65 tries later on Velocity and still no AAA. Have 5 on it as m best. To me Freeverse flows way easier than Velocity does and velocity has some dense jumpstream areas. Chances are the reason Freeverse is comparable to some is because they have a bias with colored charts.


EDIT: Yea I just watched the Freeverse preview since it had been a little while and that's not comparable to Velocity like at all.

You DID actually add your 2 cents to that conversation. Thanks for keeping up.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: FFR 6th Official Tourney Songs Discussion: Round 2

I swear if I haveto quote my post with the analogy I will ryusei

HEY DUMBASSES NO WAY IN ****ING HELL IS VELOCITY COMPARABLE TO CHAMPION FREEVERSE JUST BECAUSE ITS THE SAME SONG ARTIST AND STEPFILE AUTHOR.

IF SOMEONE SERVES YOU TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT DRINKS YOU DO NOT SAY THEY ARE COMPARABLE JUST BECAUSE YOU WERE SERVED YOUR DRINKS BY THE SAME PERSON IN THE SAME GLASS. THATS JUST PLAIN STUPID

also velocity is a VC deal with it