TWG XXXVII

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XXXVII

mini, dont be a dumbass.

There is a lot more that can go down today.

Ok, I'm gonna be totally open here.

I really think iggy is a wolf. First of all, I must say, I am a time blocker. Tokzic was also a time blocker. I trusted him as human, because he nailed the details of the role (and since then, his role has been confirmed by a blue who can see everyone person who die's role). Then, when iggy came out as a time blocker, I trusted it too, because he knew the details as well. In addition, it doesn't make any sense for a wolf to fake a role if there are more than one of the role and he doesn't know it.

The thing that throws out my trust on him out is that today, I realized that it was built on nothing. Kilga was the red seer. He got to seer someone night 1 before being killed night 2. I believe that the red seer would have gotten not only the title of the role, but also a description, based on the fact that EVERYONE IS BLUE and many of them have role titles that have never been used here at FFR before. In short, I believe that Kilga seer'd one of the time blockers and from that was able to tell iggy about it.

In addition to that, Tokzic gave away the details of his role to another person*. If this person was a wolf with iggy, he could have easily given away the details of the role.

Iggy, probbaly being the master wolf, probably planned on coming out as the role, then challenging the REAL role for it. Luckily for him, Tokzic and I had already discovered there is more than time blocker, so when iggy came out, we didn't challenge him. By the time day 2 had come along, everyone had come to iggy and there were two additional time blockers added to the list.

So here we are. The one reason I trusted iggy is able to have been falsified by two easily possible sources.

Now, think about this one. We have 5 time blockers identified. There are only 2 normal roles which can time travel, with the addition of wilkin's red role of stealing time travel power. Why would there be such a weird number of this role which only affects 2 players? Usually when there exists multiple of the same blue role, it is in a set of 3.

So basically my idea is one of two possibilities:

#1: iggy got info from kilga and faked that role. In addition, the fourth and final wolf is also faking the role. This implicates Iggy and one of the other two time blockers*. This idea is supported by the blue set of threes idea suggested above.

#2: iggy got info from another wolf because tokzic let his role slip. This implicates iggy and the one tokzic came out to before iggy came out*.

Tell me what you guys think.

*not revealed to protect their identity just in case.

ps Sorry, iggy. This just seems like the most logical way of things, what with all of the unconfirmeds looking more human than the evidence of humanity you have (ie nothing substantial).

pps i realized just now that I forgot to get into the whole "why would he work towards killing his own wolf partners?" The answer is simple. To look human.

In addition, I would recommend that you all look at this game: http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...ad.php?t=30148

In it, Tps led an alliance, claiming to me to be the seer. He was in fact a red. He killed his own wolf partners early in the game. He was eventually lynched on the very last day, AFTER HE HAD LED AN ALLIANCE TO KILL ALL OF HIS PARTNERS.

[FoJaR]

Re: TWG XXXVII

the other person* that afro is talking about is me.

[FoJaR]

Re: TWG XXXVII

oh and afro? check the convo. iggy came out before i got any details on the role from tokzic.

[MiniNeo]

Re: TWG XXXVII

Oh.

un-End Day

vote stays for now since i can't unvote =/

[Shashakiro]

Re: TWG XXXVII

So Afro, your only reasoning for thinking that Iggy is a wolf is because you don't think there would be 5 of the same role in a game...?

I'm not completely closed to the idea of Iggy being a wolf, but besides that (which is pretty horrid reasoning IMO) what's your evidence?

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XXXVII

No, that's not it.

Basically, it's because I have more reason to trust everyone else EXCEPT him.

I know all of the roles. All of them have something that makes me think they're human above others, except the other 3 time blockers (tokzic being dead). My original reason for trusting all of the time blockers is nullified (even if what fojar has said is true... gonna look into that briefly) in the idea that the red seer probably received detailed information about the role. Consider this: At the very least, there are 3 legit time blockers. The chances of the red seer seering a time blocker is statistically better. And if the red seer knew what they're doing, they would have seer'd someone around mid or low tier (because if you want to kill a high tier player, you would just kill them and not waste a seering), and I would say that that's where all of us stand.

I dunno... it just seems that everyone looks really human but the time blockers.

And if you're gonna go with the "there should be 3 instead of 5" idea, you should also consider this.

#1: me
#2: Tokzic
#3: iggy
#4: unnamed player1
#5: unnamed player2

Rather than the wolves being iggy and one of either unnamed player, it could be both unnamed players. I suppose we could lynch the both of them, then if one of them is a wolf and the other isn't, we can lynch iggy. In fact, that looks like it'd be a pretty good idea. I wonder if iggy would be willing to go with at it, or at least the first two parts of lynching the other two time blockers.

Also, I do believe that one of the two time blockers were one of, if not the last ones to come to iggy. Then again, if iggy is legit, then the triad is completed with myself and tokzic. Those two wolves may have recognized that the role could be made to appear as a trinity role (thinking that would make them look more human) by the two of them faking it to iggy. Assuming a game where tokzic and I aren't time blockers, the two unnamed time blockers could be made to appear to be a triad with iggy when really iggy would be the only one with the power.

Ok yeah definitely, the two unnamed players are the best choice for lynch. I am going to talk things over with iggy and see which one he thinks is best for lynch today. I know this might sound kinda weird, but whatever. I sorta talked myself into this place here while typing this post.

[Shashakiro]

Re: TWG XXXVII

One problem: all the time blockers (I would hope) send the results of their role to Iggy every night...how would a wolf be able to fake these results? I don't believe the wolves get to know the information that the time blockers get every night (although I could be wrong), so how would they know what to tell Iggy? It's just not logical for both time blockers to be wolves, since there's no way I know of that they could make sure they didn't send Iggy wrong--and therefore condeming--info.

It makes a bit more sense when one is a wolf with Iggy, but even then, couldn't you simply have the two blockers, as well as Iggy, tell EVERYONE their results? That way, if there's any inconsistency, it can easily be spotted, and we'll catch a wolf right there.

I may as well say that I'm one of the time-blockers, and that I think the role would be really hard, if not impossible, to convincingly fake without leaving any hard evidence of it being fake.

EDIT: Edited in that last paragraph...forgot you aren't supposed to edit in TWG ><

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XXXVII

shash, have you blocked ANYONE that had a time machine?

I am quite certain that only myself and iggy have.

THERE ARE ONLY TWO PLAYERS THAT TIME BLOCKERS HAVE POWER OVER.

All a faking time blocker would have to do is just tell iggy that they didn't have a time machine. IT DOESN'T MATTER THOUGH BECAUSE IGGY AND I ALREADY KNOW WHO THE TWO PEOPLE WITH TIME MACHINES ARE. Has Iggy told you to block either of them? No. I did. And it was confirmed by me (and I do believe that iggy said he blocked the time machine having player as well).

Then, if it turns out you were supposed to be blocking someone with a time machine, and you say he didn't, iggy would be like "are you sure?" and you could say "i dunno let me check my pm... oh yeah you're right he does have a time machine."

Ok.

You've forced my hand, shash.

And I have something to say to the 5th time blocker: DO NOT COME OUT IN THE OPEN. The only reason I am now voting shash is that I already identified him as probably being a wolf, so if he's human, he won't be wolfed. He now has to be lynched, because he identified himself (EXACTLY WHAT I WAS AVOIDING).

[Shashakiro]

Re: TWG XXXVII

shash, have you blocked ANYONE that had a time machine?

I am quite certain that only myself and iggy have.[/QUOTE]

No, I haven't. Night 1 I blocked no one, and nights 2 and 3 I blocked non-time-travelers.

THERE ARE ONLY TWO PLAYERS THAT TIME BLOCKERS HAVE POWER OVER.

A wolf would know this how? I certainly didn't before you posted it earlier.

All a faking time blocker would have to do is just tell iggy that they didn't have a time machine. IT DOESN'T MATTER THOUGH BECAUSE IGGY AND I ALREADY KNOW WHO THE TWO PEOPLE WITH TIME MACHINES ARE.

The point is to prove that me and whoever else it is ARE in fact time blockers, not to inform you two who they are...which doesn't work as well with only two time blockers, true, but the wolves would have had to have this information beforehand, and I don't see how the could've gotten it.

Has Iggy told you to block either of them? No. I did.

You haven't talked to me this entire game, unless you're wording it badly and you mean that you blocked a time-traveler...in which case, that's nice.

Then, if it turns out you were supposed to be blocking someone with a time machine, and you say he didn't, iggy would be like "are you sure?" and you could say "i dunno let me check my pm... oh yeah you're right he does have a time machine."

Why is it that every game I play with you, you manage to spew at least ONE piece of TERRIBLE logic at me? If he allowed me the "are you sure", he would be TOTALLY retarded...no actual time blocker would mess something like that up, especially if it involved proving himself as human.

Iggy hasn't told me to block either time-traveler to date, which somehow makes me a wolf because I somehow magically guessed that there were very few time travelers and THEN guessed that Iggy wouldn't tell me to block a time traveler? You think a wolf would manage to successfully guess all that at once?

Plus (and Iggy can verify this) Iggy hinted VERY STRONGLY that there was "something extra that I could do" in the original time blocker PM when he was first talking to me...there wasn't actually, but the way he was talking it would've taken a GENIUS wolf to realize that he was just testing me. I actually went to Stoic and asked if he'd left something out of my PM, which of course he hadn't...hopefully Iggy has that convo saved, since I'm way too lazy to bother saving AIM convos.

Rather than lynch me, you could just have me verify my role, which I imagine can't be that hard...perhaps have one of the time-travelers try to time-travel in such a way that would have an effect on the game, and have me block them? I AM a time blocker, and I guarantee that if you can devise a way to test this out, you'll see that fact for yourself.

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XXXVII

no actual time blocker would mess something like that up, especially if it involved proving himself as human.

Funny, because on top of the PMs not being entirely straight-forward, stoic messed up on one of them, AND NEARLY LED TO THE LYNCHING OF SOMONE VERY IMPORTANT. After discussing things over with iggy about how he obviously was lying about being a time traveler, stoic goes "oops lol here's ur real pm".

Things happen. And besides, I'm sure you know iggy ****s with people.

you could just have me verify my role, which I imagine can't be that hard

Yeah, it is, because we can't trust you enough to tell you who to block because if you're a wolf, you might just kill them.

I somehow magically guessed that there were very few time travelers and THEN guessed that Iggy wouldn't tell me to block a time traveler?

Has iggy instructed you on any one specific person to block at all all game?

there wasn't actually, but the way he was talking it would've taken a GENIUS wolf to realize that he was just testing me.

Um... did you actually tell him "no you're wrong there is nothing extra" or did you just not say anything? I guess your answer to this is kind of irrelevent because I'll probbaly just get the log from iggy.

if you can devise a way to test this out, you'll see that fact for yourself.

I can't think of anything that wouldn't compromise another person's role. Let me know if you think of anything.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: TWG XXXVII

Afro you are a ****ing idiot. My god you're worse than tokzic. You know what it would take for me be a wolf? Too many people would have to be in conspiracy with me. Ivalue, and at least 3 other people would have to lie with me. Right there that means that you have nothing. And while no one else knows who the other three are, you do and you are a big dumb goat for thinking it. You know everything I do except you don't know how people came to me, what their proof and all that was. You ever think that there could be many blockers because stoic needed filler roles?

You don't even think about things. I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain the same stupid thing to you over and over about what I'm doing. You HAVE A ROLES LIST AND STILL DO NOT NOT WHO EVERYONE IS. You're lazy and always think of the gayest stuff in the world. You even claim that there are two other unknown players? So logically would that not make them wolves? No you just decide to drag my name through the mud off things that you can't back up. You think conspriracy? But yet there's no proof except your gut. There's so much that you know about everyone and yet you of all people think I'm a wolf. That's **** ignorance right there.

In fact let me leave no doubt because this is the best twg evidence you'll ever get:
-you and I both blocked someone that said they could time travel. Remember when stoic got it wrong AND I TOLD YOU THAT HE GOT IT WRONG? I'm not faking. If I was faking not only would I have to say that that person wasn't a time traveler but ALSO say that stoic had lied about it and needed to change it.
-you remember our two power roles? The ones (in addition to ivalue) that could tell roles once they died? If I was faking then why would I kill two wolf friends? The difference in that tps game and this one is that EVERYONE is blue. So what would I do when it got down to you, me, and the 2 or 3 people that are 100% confirmed? Which leads to another point:
-if I was faking why would I tell you the roles? Why would I trust you with everything when I knew that I would never be wolfed? Why would I give you any info on what I was doing if I was trying to fake everyone out on my true motives? Or does it make more sense that I need to keep the human alliance going?

Afro you are dumb. The fact that you haven't died kills me. In fact let me post my little conspiracy on you since you were so kind to do it to me:
-Your little "red seer" conspiracy is a weird thought.... too bad it can also apply to you as a faking time blocker.
-Tokzic kill? You knew I was going to give you the roles during the night so rather than take a chance and kill someone that would be helpful to you later, you kill tokzic (who revealed himself to you as a time stopper)
-sertman kill. You knew who sertman was going to kill and I think you wanted to prevent that because you were afraid that you would have no chance if you were the only wolf left.

In fact, I pushed for this guy yesterday and I'm willing to go with him again today. cypher

He's the 5th "time stopper" btw. But unlike shash, cypher has not proven himself like shash has. Shash knew all parts of the role and when I questioned him about something that his role can do that wasn't in it, he didn't know it, only because he never used it. I dunno, he got too many of the little details right for me to think he's a wolf right now. And I was very skeptical about him anyways. Oh and shash has been blocking people ever since he came to me. If he had been wrong I would have done something about it, but since he wasn't I never mentioned it to you. (Like you would remember it anyways)

Afro also isn't telling you guys that even though there are 2 "unconfirmed" time blockers, (One of which I don't think is a wolf) there is another role out there that could possibly be a wolf. After these two guys go, then let's look at conspiracy but for now, there are better things to go off of.

Now I told afro that we have 3 days to get 1 wolf (doubt he was listening though). The fact that he's trying to get me as one of those lynches (or even tried) makes me gag right now. I'm about half tempted to kill afro right now based on my thought but like I said, there are better suspects at the moment.

OH and that story about matt... leave it alone. Even afro knows that we found flawed logic in that theory and therefore are leaving it stand as him telling the truth for now. Afro and I both time blocked the other guy that was supposively a wolf with matt, but he can time travel, therefore making it impossible for him to be a wolf, thus making it impossible for matt to be a wolf.

I know things are vague, but you have to trust me on this. You're not being overrun by a wolf head as an alliance leader. Even afro probably knows that now. But the thing is that I know there are two people lying to me and there are still a few of those guys that need to be killed before we go into any conspiracy theories right now.

Don't kill shash. Afro's judgement is very very poor.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: TWG XXXVII

just because the vote is in the middle: cypher

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: TWG XXXVII

But I might as well post the other guy who can be unconfirmed:

Fojar can be another choice too. His role is that he knows how people die. Which is only useful to find vigi kills (for the most part), The only reason I haven't thought of him so far is that when he confirmed kilga as a vigi kill, the story he told me was pretty good and in line with how stoic told others about the roles that he would reveal.

[iggymatrixcounter]

Re: TWG XXXVII

Sorry about the multiple posting but I keep thinking of things I need to say after I submit them.

I'm no longer trusting afro with any further information about anything. He wants to trash my name and think he can get away with it? He can be wolfed tonight and I would think it a relief.

If you are a role that require sensitive info from, DO NOT GIVE IT TO AFRO. He obviously can't look at the facts anyways.

[Shashakiro]

Re: TWG XXXVII

Well, I'm glad not EVERYONE who plays this game is as thick as Afro. *rolls eyes*

Cypher. I still trust Iggy, especially after his last few posts.