TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

inDheart why did you 180 on me from yesterday? was it just the insta business?

[T-Force]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

Fwiw, I like DBP a lot more right now.

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

here's the tier list so far

--A tier--
Mashi

--B tier--
T-Force

--C tier--
MML
inDheart

--D tier--
YoshL (needs a buff)

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

admittedly a good part of that is from process of elimination which is about all we have right now, maybe that will change when I actually go into YoshL later

[inDheart]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

inDheart why did you 180 on me from yesterday? was it just the insta business?

i 180'd on you?

if you're talking about the post where i said i didn't wanna go all "dbp meta and that's game", i just don't want us to be stupid today is all

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

regarding YoshL, there are three main events that seem important

YoshL v MML
YoshL v me
YoshL v Zenith

again I'll need to do a complete readthrough of his stuff again, but these all look like weak/easy targets

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

i 180'd on you?

if you're talking about the post where i said i didn't wanna go all "dbp meta and that's game", i just don't want us to be stupid today is all

yeah that's what I meant

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

four iso's has me a bit tired but I want interpretations from others as well

I'll be back in the afternoon/evening tomorrow to finish up, rn PoE is leaning me towards YoshL

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

the reason I bring up PoE is bc I really think that's the only way we're going to get a good lynch today

regarding interactions, we have almost NOTHING because none of the flipped wolves were ever actually under pressure, and none of the wagons on them gained traction

the next things to look at are motivations, which are really important but computationally expensive to determine, so I think it's easier to find townies and go from there

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

at the same time it's a lot easier to make mistakes by mis-clearing someone, but that's why it's important that everybody works together to fill in holes in reasoning

[DaBackpack]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

at the same time it's a lot easier to make mistakes by mis-clearing someone

tbh I'm REALLY afraid of doing this, that game where I miscleared Tokzic is still on my mind

[inDheart]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

yeah that's what I meant

kind of the point of the post was if i'm really going to do a 180, i need something else, and aorn i haven't found it

i have a few others of your eod/today posts to respond to but right now my focus is on the wolf buddy reread i've been meaning to do

[YoshL]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

the reason I bring up PoE is bc I really think that's the only way we're going to get a good lynch today

regarding interactions, we have almost NOTHING because none of the flipped wolves were ever actually under pressure, and none of the wagons on them gained traction

the next things to look at are motivations, which are really important but computationally expensive to determine, so I think it's easier to find townies and go from there

i'm honestly still waiting for concrete things to pop up so i can address them rather than "yoshl is top scum because he feels bad"

[inDheart]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

this, uh, got big

Benguin's a tard pay him no mind

As a side note let's shit post less

reuben_tate

come here fren, your posting is indeed odd

poosted didn't you fucking read my post or are you too busy fucking a bird in a birdsim or something

he poosted

I'm piggy backing, just let me piggy back you stupid birdshit

this is really not a substantial anti-ben argument (tbf it's still in the game meme zone), but he returns to suspicion of ben when he drops his first reads later, so i'm taking these seriously

pack back was wrong with you

Like your posts are weirder than normal.

definitely saw dbp's posts

Oh, that's unfortunate.

interacts with dbp about his posts

I did as well, and am I the only one who views this entrance to the game as strange for packback?

but like out of what he has posted

I don't remember him being able to shit post like that

interacts with mashi and AA about dbp's posts. the first post here is the one that mashi picked out later to wonder why it seemed like xel had forgotten about dbp's entrance, though i'm not quite seeing the contradiction as much - i'm seeing it as he missed this particular post in the handful that dbp made for his entrance

dat style change tho

this isn't very contentful on its own, but he's acknowledged charu's "why would he be worth living" re: dbp. i'm quoting all of these just to show his sheer mass of ~interactions~ all about one player in the game, even if that player is the focus. pretty sure the only things i left out of the quotes above are strictly memes.

there's some posts in here where he does a more literal "tilt" of sunfan and ben responds but that just looks like more memes

No, leave them in the dark obv. And yes, packback enters a game and usually doesn't post in a foreign language and with fucking images, and make a joke at the host.

within xel's first wall, here is yet another response to mashi on dbp

What. The. Actual. Fuck. Is you letting him off with this shit?

Like I feel I get what you're going for a decent amount of the time with your witholding of information and seeminly random questioning and such, but what precisely is the reason you don't hound him for blatantly piggybacking a vote?

On top of THAT InDheart has literally no actual reason to vote AA because you can't say his play is weird, then immediatly retract the statement with " it's my first game here and i'm not familiar with his play style yet."

Like what the actual fuck mate.

this is at xiz and still comes off as weird and misdirected - like, he seemed to get madder at xiz for validating what he sees as my "shite logic". quoting to see how his behavior here compares to how he handles other people.

It's NOT a real catch though

just feels like an error filled shite post.

pretty dismissive of what others have called a good ben post, but it's ambiguous (at least to me) as to which post is "error filled shite". my inclination is he means mashi's, which has already been indicated to be a pretty lol post

Would also be worth looking you know, maybe into inDheart as well because even with my lack of anything there's less of it than there is there.

this never happened lol

You literally can't miss it, it's not possible

ben couldn't miss that shit

/props if anyone other than ben gets this joke

this is at the tail end of SIX POSTS calling out MML for homing in on what xel had to say about yoshl in the wall, and not anything about xiz. this is where i see the start of him being pretty hard on MML, in a way that's uncharacteristic of a wolf-wolf interaction. it gets more severe in the next wall post

The other thing about packback is even as scum he normally has posted SOMETHING by now. He's not doing it yet, and I wonder why

Though I do agree with what I think you're trying to say here is that you do feel he's not the sk

correct me if I'm wrong on that

he's agreeing with yoshl about dbp's play not being consistent with SK, but also commenting that even in dbp meta land this is weird for dbp scum. so xel was waiting for a dbp scum tell and just hadn't seen it yet. what makes this interesting to me is his emphasis on dbp's inactivity, because it means he's further qualifying the tell, and imo making it easier for himself to just not see it if it comes up

xel wall 2: wall harder (just couldn't find a good way to quote it is all) - responds to sunfan's town read on mml by doing a deeper iso and seeing if he comes to the same conclusion. the answer is no - he sees MML as scummy here. thing is, this doesn't result in a vote like xiz's earlier play did (though xel does unvote xiz in this same post, having pretty much done a full 180 after a xiz post he liked)

further down he looks at some dbp posts, and in particular he responds to the "wolves know i am town" post and says he has issues with it ahahaha. his comment on dbp's return and response to inactivity...isn't the most useful thing in the world here.

there are responses to other people in there, like me and yoshl, but they're just not constructive - i mention these because we're not at his reads list yet, and that's really the test of how all this bears out

You must be fine with it because they're right

ICE BURN - though, remember that up to now, his criticism of mml has still not turned into a vote like he had on xiz

he also calls ben a little shit for his inactivity/excuses around here

so six hours after xelwall2 is when he delivers his "reads". i say "reads" because they're phrased more like responses to zenith's reads
- he calls sunfan's dbp read as "on point", while up to now sunfan's still relying on dbp's meta and saying that the posts he made don't really balance that out.
- he thinks mml looks not good at all but wants to look into his meta more before saying anything else on that
- he doesn't feel town on ben and still isn't feeling that post where ben dove into #mashigate
- he puts me as a scum lean (for my "shite logic") but says he has to get back to me (is this even a reads list anymore or a list of things he still needs to look at?)
- i'm just going to guess he means mashi is town with that response
- he doesn't buy a town read on yoshl either because inactivity isn't a good excuse in his eyes
a common theme here, it seems, is that xel really wants people to earn their town reads. he caps off that post with this:

if I had to pick two to put on the table today i'mma throw out MML and ben

because if I say packback it feels like piggy backing onto obvious trains / maybe a little too easy, and I earnestly think ben is gettin' a town read he hasn't really earned

i'm not satisfied with his game yet, but it's certainly at least "hey he's here"

and if you wanna say arnt and w n b should be tossed into the same category, I kinda disagree with you because I feel they're different, uh I lack a good word gonna say category because it's the only one that comes to mind

looking back, xel saying he doesn't wanna jump onto dbp feels really odd to me when his "read" is already "defer to sunfan". his dodginess on this could be some nervousness about how much traction dbp has already gained if dbp really is his partner, and it feels of a different nature to me than how he sees his nulls/"i have to reread" players, given his earlier attention to dbp. mentioning mml is consistent with what he's previously said, at least, and i'm not really concerned that he doesn't reason that out further here. but his thoughts on ben seem rather out of left field. he doesn't share the same warm fuzzy town vibe on ben that so many other people had, but that makes ben his number two lynch candidate? when he could choose, like, me?? what. that could be an attempt at partner distancing

Annnd this posting stuff is why id lynch mml over packback

well, at least he found another reason for not-dbp later, but this is right up against eod0 and it's based on emotion rather than dbp's detectiving. it's certainly legitimate to say and several other people saw the same, but in ways it can just look like an attempt to back-propagate a legit reason for not having dbp as one of his top two. like how mashi said he had confirmation bias on his charu vote, this looks like xel trying to confirm his worldview. he quoted another dbp post which was more emotion, but otherwise that was the end of his day.

i didn't quote it here as it's been mentioned before, but he voted mml to break kitb. day 1 he says this:

It was less about throwing a noose around your neck though. I feel my judgement in that situation was correct, given what was on the table. My judgment of you can always be swayed short of a cop claiming your role, given good arguments / my own interpretations.

i feel really good about mml now, guys

in sum:
- xel paid a lot of attention to dbp, but seemed a bit waffly on actually seeing him as wolfy beyond calling his play weird and pointing to the meta evidence, and drew back at eod
- xel also was weirdly hard on ben, even committing to him what i'm seeing as a serious vote, which could be a potential partner smackdown for distance
- but his actions with mml seem very uncharacteristic of partner interactions
- he didn't have as many remarkably substantive things to say on yoshl or mashi

[inDheart]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - GAME THREAD

island will mercifully be a lot shorter

At first, I was thinking that those two posts would be potential distancing from each other. However, after giving a little thought, if they were scumbuddies, why call out a scum buddy like in post 182?

is that really a call-out lmao (#182 is xel saying dbp's posts are weirder than normal). i don't feel the same way, because this accusation carries so little weight, and xel/dbp interactions are better exemplified later. xel also voted ben rather early for what was stated as odd posting.

I'm getting the vibe of this post of general annoyance from MML. Bit over reactive but have good points about Yosh.

i can still only see this mml post as not super great. then when island reads my post responding to this exchange (the one that mashi keeps coming up with creative words to call) his thoughts seem to flip on mml.

List of reads

6. DaBackpack - Nothing really sticks out for Backpack other than the wagon. Do need to read more into his posts. Null for now.
10. MixMasterLar - While his post does seem genuine and too strong for scum, I don't how MML wasn't aware of the set up, thinking that there's a vig when it's confirmed there isn't a vig. I'm going for null for the time being.
12. inDheart - Nothing is sticking out for me with D. Null.
13. reuben_tate - Few posts, but do like the contents of the posts. Leaning town.
14. Xelnya - Need to go back on Xel for further reading. Null for now.
15. Charles Claythorne (AKA MASHI) - Leaning town since I do like his reasoning and then willingness to back down and provide reasoning.
16. YoshL - Honestly, I have no clue. I wanna lean scum just on the basis on his post on Charu but I'm reserving judgement.

note: the post referred to in the yoshl read is this one

i didn't expect these reads to do much - as island mentioned in response to me before, the game's a lot of reading, and in the full list here many players turn up null for him. he seems to know how he would play the distancing game, as he commented on that before, but by this point he hasn't done much to distance himself from either of his teammates (and xel also didn't do much to get away from island). of note, he read xel as pretty much "null, need to reread" and it's possible his other partner was a similar read in this list. that would make it most likely dbp or yoshl. however, it's also confused by him having two rather common town reads in here that he might have been tempted to throw in as cover. this list being rather uncontroversial as a whole, especially at posting time, doesn't help

While I disagree with the wagon forming on you on the basis of screwing up on the number of scum in this game, it's still inherently a scummy thing to post, especially when you have easily checked. the first post.

"while i think the wagon's wrong-headed, i would still vote for you despite its existence"

From what I'm getting with this part of this post, it seems that you're saying that there might be a potential set up between AA and MML.

If that's what you're trying to imply, I don't know if I necessarily agree with such an implication. The reactions on the both of them in their respective situations seems to be way, way too genuine for it to be a set up. The annoyance of their posts is too strong to be staged for bussing.

i don't think i got this post the first time i read it, oops. it's fairly low-hanging fruit though and just says those two wouldn't be wolf-wolf

I feel that the kills that happened earlier are potential set ups for WIFOM.

Arn getting NK could have been an attempt to scumpaint MML and AA getting NK could be an attempt for scums to scumpaint the reads that AA had for the players

dude has a fascination with mml