TWG X - DAY 6 - CYPHER DECIPHERD - HUMANS WIN [Archive]

blahblah18

January 30th, 2005, 11:51 AM

Night 1 - Not in Our Quiet Little Town

Now here in this little Italian village not even 5 miles from Naples lies a very small, tightknit community. They in Angiono have always been sufficient by fishing off the Tyrrhenian Sea and selling it in the big city of Naples. One day however, a letter was found in the middle of town square. It was a listing of the 17 members of the Town Council. The letter demanded that Angiono concede 80 % of their fishing earnings or else the town council will slowly die off one by one. The note was signed simply at the bottom with Don Mafioso. The Council quickly met in a closed door meeting to discuss what, if anything should be done in response to this threat. They decided then and there to pay no heed to this supposed threat because 80 % of their earnings would surely kill them all anyways, and to just go on with their daily lives, but not one member on the council slept soundly that night....

The Members of the Town Council are
Afro
Alain
Aperson
Cypher
EB
Eyespew
Guido
Hans
Jurs
Kefit
Kilga
Matt4444
Mead
Roopert
Stretchy
TPS
Whorli

PM's are going out now. They will be 1 word PM's and will say
HUMAN,PSYCHIC,MASON,SEER,WOLF,DEVIL,GUARDIAN

It is now night 1, I need Choices from Seer,Wolf,Devil, and Guardian.
Good Luck Everyone.

blahblah18

January 30th, 2005, 10:29 PM

The next morning the town council reconvened to continue the discussion about how best to remedy their current problem, however, after waiting 15 minutes, StretchyPanda was still not in attendance. The council decided to go to her house. As they approached to enter, they saw that the door was already unlocked. calling out to her yielded no response, so the townspeople searched every room. And in her bed, there she was, stabbed in the chest, with a note through the knife that only said "That was the first--- Don Mafioso" After close examination of the house, they saw there was absolutely no sign of any forced entry in any way. As the council pondered this mystery, someone stepped up and said, "It must be one of us, we are the only ones with keys to all the houses in the village" There was an initial outrage, but after much heated discussion, it was concluded that this indeed must have been the case. So the decision of the council became that they must stop any detracting forces from within the council before they all wound up dead. So now council, it is upon your shoulders. Weed out the members within you that are working for the Don and bring them to swift justice.

You ahve 48 hours to make your decision and this will lock at 11:59 EST (NOT FFR) time Tuesday night.

blahblah18

January 30th, 2005, 10:34 PM

By the way, for all the people that didn't really read my campaign speech.
The Devil is a character that is human, but works for the wolves. Devil wins if wolves win, humans do NOT need to kill devil to win. Devil looks at a person each night and I tell them their role. If the seer sees the devil, he comes up human. I think that's about it. Ask me if there are any more misunderstandings or confusions.

GuidoHunter

January 30th, 2005, 10:37 PM

you BASTARDS! Her death will not go unavenged...

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

evilbutterfly

January 30th, 2005, 10:40 PM

Argh, time for that part of the game we all hate: Day 1. And now, I'll ask the question I always ask: why stretchy? I know she has "connections" with Guido, and from the chat she seems to be friends with Jurs. Of course, it's usually not about connections, even though I always ask that.

Oh, speaking of chat: aim:gochat?roomname=TWG+X Come and join. Interesting things get said.

And yeah, to you new people: don't vote right away. That's bad for the humans. Refrain from voting so discussion can go on and wolves can be found. I dunno about these two newbies' TWG experience, so I figured I'd just give a word of advice.

whorlichan

January 30th, 2005, 10:42 PM

First thoughts: Stretchy is SMART. But unlikely to be guardianed with some more advanced players in the lot. She's like Roopert was in an earlier game: A good kill for the wolves, because it's hard for us to gather much information from her death.

Suspecting Guido is pointless; he's much too intelligent to go after his own girlfriend night 1. I wish the wolves weren't so smart, I would have liked to have an easy vote on day 1.

stretchypanda

January 30th, 2005, 10:54 PM

>O!!!

I'm going to assume I died because of what Whorli said -- that I'm smart, and not just because the wolves were like, "OMG THIS WILL MAKE HER BOYFRIEND LOOK SUSPICIOUS."

Sigh. Have fun. =(

EDIT (because it has to be done):
Blah (12:26:34 AM): heh
Blah (12:26:44 AM): i assigned no wolves
Blah (12:26:48 AM): i felt like killing you

OMG I SOLVED THE MYSTERY.

evilbutterfly

January 30th, 2005, 11:05 PM

Suspecting Guido is pointless

That's what I was thinking, but there's also Jurs. Plus, I was hoping maybe a stupid wolf newb would come along and claim Guido did it so we'd have somebody to vote for, which is why I didn't say that earlier.

And stretchy, we all know you're smart. Especially when you're a wolf with alain. Oh that was a good game.

GuidoHunter

January 30th, 2005, 11:58 PM

I can't believe that either one dumb wolf would be able to make that move with the consent of two other veteran wolves or that there are three dumb moves.

Looking at this from a wolf's perspective, killing stretchy and trying to pin it on me would be far too wasteful. Getting me lynched wouldn't (well, shouldn't) work, so why waste the free kill?

The only person who I can see having an actual interest in killing her is alain, simply because they worked closely and she might be able to figure him out, but as of right now that's no reason to vote for him. I stay voteless.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Kilgamayan

January 31st, 2005, 12:32 AM

To further emphasize the point

We all remember what happened when Kefit was killed Night 1 and everyone said "omg kilga did it", right?

Yeah that worked out SO GREAT FOR THE HUMANS

alainbryden

January 31st, 2005, 04:32 AM

Hehe, yeah guido, I wolfed stretch so that you couldn't talk to her for the remainder of the game, meanwhile I can rack up the brownie points ;) Yep yep, well blah said that he would redo the roles if anything was unfair, so we can be certain that there is at least one compitent person on the wolf team, and not three fools. This being said I think we can assume that the strategy used was to wolf someone not connected to any of the wolves. Stretch is linked to a few people, but probably not one of them are wolves. It would obviously be foolish to vote guido, because that would be TOO obvious. I think by the same logic, you can remove any idea that my connections with stretch place me under suspicion for this wolfing. This is just the type of subltle misleading that the wolves will have planned. If we're looking for someone to put near the top of the list, I would say that it would exclude anyone that can be obviously connected to this kill. Unless, of course, you beleive in double reverse psychology...

alainbryden

January 31st, 2005, 04:49 AM

I wanted to add a seperate thought. The general trend is that one of the more obsessive players (Tass, me, blah, eb) attempt to pursue everyone to come to them with information and form the alliance. I realise after the past few games that this is the most effective strategy for the player in question, but not for the team. I believe that the alliance should be formed by the seer. This is the best strategy for the seer. Keep seeing people, but never tell that you are seer until the following happens: Each time you see someone and they come back human, ask them their role, but don't say yours. If you see two people, and both admit to being masons and can vouch for eachother, then you can tell them that you are the seer and begin the alliance with the three masons. This ensures that the seer will not be tricked into giving himself away to the devil (the somewhat master wolf in this game.) If you follow that plan, you run no risk of the name of the seer falling into the wrong hands, short of the devil by change viewing the seer. Hopefully by the time this happens the seer will already be established.

There is also another interesting strategy, and if the seer sees me and generally trusts me at some point in the game, as well as knows the masons, it is a great strategy that combines the power of the four to practically guarantee the humans a subsequenly swift win. I will say more on aim if given the opportunity.

If odds play out fairly, the seer should be able to be in alliance with the masons by the end of the third night.

There are 16 players left in this game, 12 humans. I'm going to assume that the wolves win when 3 humans remain, not four, because the devil doesn't count as a wolf in terms of killing. This means that the game can last a minimum of 5 nights and a maximum of 8 I belive. By the fourth night, let alone the fifth, it is almost guaranteed that the seer is in with the masons, unless an unlucky wolfing got the seer by random by then. If my strategy were then implemented and successful, it would be easy to take out a wolf each night after that without fear of missing one. I'm hoping this one is in the bag. Have a good day everyone.

mead1

January 31st, 2005, 05:01 AM

^ What you said is a very good point. But also something that should be pointed out: This is TWG X. The 10th one. I think by this point the wolves have gotten a bit smarter than to use the same patterns that they are expected to use. Perhaps stretchy's relations were just obvious enough to be overlooked by us. This is pure speculation, but as of now I am not ruling Guido or Alain out.

alainbryden

January 31st, 2005, 05:39 AM

Well of course I'm not ruling anyone out, that's just silly. I'm pretty sure what I brought up was a new level of strategy, as I try to outdo the thinking of each previous game. I'm just saying there are some things a wolf never does and setting themselves up by voting their girlfriend is pretty much something a wolf never does. Analysing connections are always the most popular passtime of TWG players directly after the day 1 lynch, because there's nothing else to go on, so the wolves don't have much choice of strategy with which to play either on this first night; they try to vote someone sure not to be guarded, someone with no connection to any of the members, and if possible, someone with misleading connections to other players. It's always been the same.

I'm interested as to how the poor wolves will ever know if they accidentally wolf their devil at one point :P

On a side note, I'm betting that after last game, many of us will be less quick to form our usual non-chalant personal alliances with other players. I know I had a reality check after Blah has taken the skill of friendship trickery to a new level after last game, and it's why I think we need to take a more cautious approach to forming alliances, especially the main one, as stated above.

mead1

January 31st, 2005, 06:35 AM

Strange...

Your second post didn't show up while I was typing up mine...

I was responding to the first post.

HansSky

January 31st, 2005, 07:47 AM

EDIT (because it has to be done):
Blah (12:26:34 AM): heh
Blah (12:26:44 AM): i assigned no wolves
Blah (12:26:48 AM): i felt like killing you

OMG I SOLVED THE MYSTERY.

Oh. Well that was easy.

Anyways. On to the topic at hand. Of course, pinning a wolf right now is damn near impossible, so we'll have to wait a bit until everybody posts, and then go from there. Alain, you have good ideas. They should work out pretty well(if all goes as planned, of course). But I really don't have too much to say right now, so I'm going to stop before I start rambling.

Matthew4444

January 31st, 2005, 08:53 AM

While I hate to make accusations so early in the game, I suspect evilbutterfly to be a wolf. This is based on a short AIM conversation I had with him. In the main chat, I made a comment about "I'm gonna go now, but not because I'm sending PMs to blah" (or something like that). EB then contacted me in a separate window about how I should be more careful. He also casually asked if I had a special role. While this didn't seem suspicious at first, I soon realized that it was usually only wolves who got so friendly so early without being certain of roles. So basically, I'm paranoid because someone tried to get me to trust them.

Tps222

January 31st, 2005, 10:57 AM

I doubt the wolves would kill stretchy and try and get people to link her to guido, that's just too obvious, unless they are trying some of alain's triple reverse pyschology stuff. I was in the chat for a while, but most of the chat was just bs'ing around, and really was pointless, though i did see some relations with jurs and stretchy. Right now, i'm going to put a random vote out. Yay for generators. Roopert

JurseyRider734

January 31st, 2005, 12:39 PM

Me and Pander are close because I <3 her, so suspecting me at this point would be a little irrational on your part, buttfly. Anyways, the only person that seemed sketchy to me in the TWG X aim chat was Matt, but I do not have enough conclusive evidence to make a vote just yet.

eyespewgreekfire

January 31st, 2005, 12:55 PM

There really is not much to go on at this point, which everyone has said. I agree with what everyone has said so far about alliance strategy. However, one should be wary of any seer that comes, since it could be the devil. I would say that the seer should find a mason, and then vote in proxy for whoever that mason wants, after giving the mason all seer data. I see nobody suspicious at all as of yet. A noob at this point could go after guido, jursey, or alain, but I believe that they each have a average chance of being human as of now. One thing which I think will help people out in this game is to list all the people that do not post during the previous day. On day 2 (if there are any) I'll post a list of everyone with no posts, if people would be intersted by this.

mead1

January 31st, 2005, 01:20 PM

That would be quite helpful for the slackers eyespew (Namely Me).

Anyway, at this point there is little if anything to put stock in. Matt made a good point that speaks to me: eb might have been attempting to control the two noobs by being a nice guy. However, I feel unless I see evidence otherwise supporting his being a wolf, I think he was just being a nice guy.

Eyespew also pointed out another thing that has thusly went unmentioned: The Devil kinda throws off the safety of an alliance. That stratedgy is no longer nearly as safe, or as reliable.

I think I'm in a bit over my head now

whorlichan

January 31st, 2005, 01:27 PM

Mead: The devil is almost as bad as the Master Wolf was in previous games. He is seered as human, so the alliance might take him in--but he also can't wolf anyone. All he can do is try to convince the wolves that he is in fact the devil, and give them ideas as to who to kill. If they don't believe him, though, they might just kill him.

Matt: EB is attempting to be the missing Tass/Blah of the other games. Assuming he is human, he would naturally want to know if you had a special role so he could involve you in the alliance he's trying to put together. If you go right off the bat and assume he's a wolf, does that mean ANYONE who asks about special roles is a wolf in your eyes?

And Tps...you've played before. You know random votes are bad for the humans. Don't do it. Think of SOMETHING to say and vote for someone based on that, even if it is sketchy evidence.

evilbutterfly

January 31st, 2005, 02:18 PM

Matt, as a newb, I figured it best to advise you on the game. You said you weren't sending PMs to blah, in the midst of a bunch of talk about wolves and special roles needing to send PMs to blah, which would imply that you weren't a special role. But why would anybody in their right mind say such a thing? I took it to mean that you were sending PMs. A wolf wouldn't be stupid enough to announce this (at least, I'd hope not) so I figured I'd contact you about it. If you do have a special role, which may be the case, you need to be MUCH more careful. The Devil may look at you first, or perhaps the wolves will kill you just for insenuating you have a role (unless that special role is that you are a wolf, which is also possible). I'm not trying to "be the missing Tass/Blah," I'm just trying to be helpful to the new-comers.

And so what if I want to know the special roles? We all do. Wolves want to know them to kill them, Humans want to know them so they can form an alliance and weed out the wolves. And of course we all ask in a friendly way. If you force the issue people assume you're a wolf and lynch you.

And Jurs, I wasn't trying to say you were a wolf, I was just pointing out connections. It's all I know how to do on Day 1. I'm vary wary of accusing anyone or doing anything, because more than likely I'll kill a human. I STILL feel bad for lynching Chardish (a mason) in that one game, even though it helped lead to the human victory. The last thing I want is to run out and accuse people and get them killed wrongly.

And whorli's right. Random votes are bad for the humans (I think I said this before, but whatever). We need to continue on in discussion and hopefully somebody will slip up and reveal themselves. Using slight suspicions (as Matt tried to do) in order to provoke a response is one thing, but flat out random voting accomplishes nothing at all.

And as far as suspicions go, the only person who strikes me as slightly suspicious is mead1. It's already been established that it wasn't somebody closed to Panda that did it, or at least that they didn't kill her just because of being close, but mead1 said it was possible anyway. Not much to go on, but it's just a thought, and definitly not worthy of a vote.

Afrobean

January 31st, 2005, 03:26 PM

OK, all I really have to say that a double or triple reverse psychology would be PERFECT right now. You all are saying "oh it couldn't have been Guido because no one would be that stupid." Did you ever stop to think thta maybe Guido is a wolf and he was counting on you all responding like that?

Not saying I'm especially suspicious of Guido, it just pisses me off that you don't think a wolf would pull double reverse psychology when it is an almost fool proof plan.

I've got nothing right now, but a little bit of suspicion on the newbs. I'm sure that at least one of them is a wolf.

JurseyRider734

January 31st, 2005, 03:27 PM

I can't believe that the double reverse psychology from the Matrix TWG I proposed is still being used. -_-

CypherToorima

January 31st, 2005, 03:36 PM

I agree with afrobean. I don't suspect anyone right now, but everyone is like "let's rule out guido and alain and jurs" and if even one of them was a wolf, it would be perfect for them (the wolves, that is). But as of now, no one is coming up on my wolf-dar (or perhaps...gangster-dar)

CypherToorima

January 31st, 2005, 03:38 PM

Also, jurs I came up with that a long time ago, even though I was wrong.

Matthew4444

January 31st, 2005, 03:41 PM

Maybe I should clear something up. I'm not as much suspicious of EB for asking if I had a special role, I'm more paranoid of how friendly he was getting. From reading the postgame of Infiltration it's clear that easily placed trust (in blah at least) is an easy way to get manipulated by wolves. I guess I just overreacted, though.

GuidoHunter

January 31st, 2005, 04:24 PM

@Afro: Of course we can't completely rule out obscenely complicated reverse-psychology tactics, but I'm going to give some credit to the wolves.

Recall from my last post when I said that it wouldn't be worth it for the wolves to try such a tactic. Night 1 gives them a practically free kill. Why waste that on such a risky strategy? Why try what's been tried before?

Reverse psychology is a fine tactic for the wolves to use, as it's worked once and almost did again on night one. Double reverse psychology just goes over the cliff. If double works, then triple or quadruple could, too, and then you've got yourself thinking in an endless circle. As a wolf, I wouldn't try anything to possibly put suspicion on me on Day 1, as it's a free day.

C'mon, Afro, give me some credit. I'm not asking you to believe that I'm a human from this, but killing stretchy and then putting myself into the open to try to get the humans to do something that's hurt them before in the off chance that I could convince everyone of my humanity on Day 1 is just a bit farfetched.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Afrobean

January 31st, 2005, 04:52 PM

C'mon, Afro, give me some credit. I'm not asking you to believe that I'm a human from this, but killing stretchy and then putting myself into the open to try to get the humans to do something that's hurt them before in the off chance that I could convince everyone of my humanity on Day 1 is just a bit farfetched.
I don't think it's farfetch'd at all (lawl pokemon). Imagine that you are indeed a wolf. You would be in the BEST possible position as a wolf, with everyone saying "oh he wouldn't do that if he was a wolf." Double reverse psychology is not as complex as you make it sound.

By the way, just so I'm 100% clear on this- I'm sort of playing devil's advocate here. I don't have any more suspicion on Guido than on anyone else. I'm only fighting for this, because it's stupid for you all to accept Guido as human for something that a wolf very easily could have done.

GuidoHunter

January 31st, 2005, 05:03 PM

If I were indeed a wolf, there would have been MANY much better options for me, most of which would cast NO suspicion on me, so why, in God's name, would I choose this one? Like I said before: FAR too risky for me.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

HansSky

January 31st, 2005, 05:06 PM

Wow, Guido, you're getting awfully defensive of yourself. Sounds wolfish to me...

Of course, people may actually think that. But I do agree with you. This whole double reverse psychology ordeal is very possible, but like Guido said, there are plenty of better things to do. And ESPECIALLY on night one, when everyone is completely clueless already. There is no need to play mind games with anybody at this stage in the game.

Matthew4444

January 31st, 2005, 05:28 PM

Now that I've spent more time analyzing everything, I'm posting more paranoid suspicions. It seems that Afro, EB, and Cypher are in a three-way alliance. Afro and Cypher are both using the similar arguement that makes Guido look guilty, while at the same time they're just saying that Guido shouldn't be ruled out. This has lead me to believe that the ACE group is either the Masons or the Wolves, and that they want Guido to stay as a suspect so people don't rule him out as a lynch target.

GuidoHunter

January 31st, 2005, 05:39 PM

Haha, funny you mention that, Hans, since, if you recall from Manhunt, my NOT flipping out and being extremely defensive was used against me (quite correctly, as I mentioned in the postgame) to get me lynched. The only other time I had to do so I was human, too.

Of course, yeah, I could have realized this and changed my ways, blahblahblah, but I was ecstatic to find out that I was human this game, and I'm not going to go down without a fight.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

evilbutterfly

January 31st, 2005, 05:52 PM

Matt, the ACE Group was a joke. Nobody would seriously come out and say "Me, Afro, and Cypher are wolves. We're the ACE Team!"

Seriously, you keep looking into what I say waaaay too much or overlooking the obvious...

alainbryden

January 31st, 2005, 05:59 PM

Do not vote Guido tonight. He is too valuable to the humans to make a mistake of lynching him. I'm sure he will be seen tonight , and then work can spread of whether or not he is a wolf, but do not make this your dar one lynching, or you are sorely on the wrong track in this game. Since we absolutely have to take out someone today, if there is no good evidence against anyone, which I beleive is impossible since it is the first day, I will be voting for the least active player. I hope others follow the good example.

aperson

January 31st, 2005, 06:06 PM

Hi guys, sorry for not posting earlier... I've been out getting a sports physical (Turn head and cough etc...) and just got back, not to mention the tetanus shot has made my mousing hand feel like a goddamn brick.

This game is taking an interesting turn already, but I'd like to propose a thought:

This 'double reverse psychology' game will get all of us nowhere... The reasons why are pretty simple:

The game of reverse psychology is a chain; All you are doing by playing this game is guessing where the 'chain' has ended. You see, you can speculate all you want whether it's a single or double-reverse psychology loop, but theoretically it is impossible to back up this logic. In essence, by taking a stance either way based on double or single-reverse psychology you will be taking a 50/50 stab at best since it is impossible to determine the motives the perpetrator had for the action (whether they were internally thinking of a double or single chain). If we want to eliminate the wolves we have to approach this way of sifting through information and events differently.

roopert

January 31st, 2005, 06:11 PM

Well this is an interesting first night kill. You can only wonder why they would pick Stretchy when there are so many other people I would have picked over her. (no offense) In any event, it doesn't give us much to work with on day 1 other than what has already been said, so I am a bit lost on who to vote for. However, assuming Stretchy wasn't the guardian, the guardian really has a tough job on choosing who to protect. There is no super-power in this game (except maybe alian) so everyone if basically fair game. However, it does seem they are trying to lynch people that will leave us little to work with, or at least be confused, so I would recommend protecting players such as EB, Guido, Myself, Cypher, etc. I don't mean to sound too wolfish saying "OMG PROTECT ME PLZ!". All I'm asking is the guardian really think about who to protect. We'll find out after tonight if they plan on lynching the most active players like in Infiltration, or if they would rather aim for the lower-risk players. The first day is always the hardest.

alainbryden

January 31st, 2005, 06:22 PM

It's hard to tell just how the wolves with play. If they start going after all the good players, and one of the good players happened to be their devil, then they just kicked themselves in the shins, bad. I therefore don't think they'll be doing this. I think the wolves will realise that their best strategy is to vote low-key, human seeming players, so that, even if they do accidentally knock out their devil, at that level of player it won't be all that much of a loss to them. I don't think the wolves are will risk taking out the most skilled players just yet, because it could potentially harm their one advantage in the game. This doesn't mean I don't think I shouldn't be guarded ;)

evilbutterfly

January 31st, 2005, 06:26 PM

JurseyRider734

January 31st, 2005, 06:39 PM

You can only wonder why they would pick Stretchy when there are so many other people I would have picked over her

Notice how wolf kills always follow that pattern on Night 1. They don't want to give us anything to work with. Looks like they did a good job.

And it's been said before, but really all we have to go on are voting patterns, and Day 1 we have none. Hopefully we get lucky and hit a wolf today, but I doubt it =\

Meaning the wolves aren't any old dumbasses. It's probably two experienced players and a newer one, since blah said he'd change it if it were unfair (3 newbs or 3 vets). I'd say look for some of the ones who are more devious. Guido and Hans were sneaky wolves in Infiltration. I'm not saying that it's definite, but there could be a possibility that they're going to pull another quick one. (ex. get more than one kill in a night, make us believe that someone who is a human is a wolf, while wolfing another one during their turn)

alainbryden

January 31st, 2005, 06:42 PM

Still not a safe risk to vote one of the better players on day one I feel

Tps222

January 31st, 2005, 06:42 PM

Okay, people are just saying the same thing over and over again, about this whole double reverse pyschology thing, while it may be a possibilty, it is not going to help us at this point, because it is almost impossible to figure out, so I'm not sure what to go off of right now.

@whorli: No vote is ever random ;). I purposely voted Roopert because he is known to be rather quiet, and we need all the people we can get to be active as possible, think of the vote as kind of a boost, and, I wanted to see how he responded. Remember, in TWG 8 LD was a wolf, and went along his whole "I always random vote, so i'm not suspicous, and later on he ends up being a wolf, I just don't want the same thing happening with Roopert.

mead1

January 31st, 2005, 07:26 PM

Well, I haven't posted in awhile, so here's my two cents.

Personally, since I have nothing better to go on, I like the double reverse psychology-thing. Reverse psychology may be an endless cycle, but I believe it ends on double. I personally do not feel strongly enough to vote on it though.

I also think that we are not going to really get anywhere until Day 2, so we are just grasping for straws. I don't want to lynch a human, no one does (wolves aside of course) but we are very likely going to do just that. The wolves are not stupid, and they would need to have an I.Q. of 4 to make an obvious mistake on Day 1.

Don't mean to be so negative, but it's a little depressing

Anyone else wondering where Kefit is?

Afrobean

January 31st, 2005, 07:30 PM

Kefit's working or something. I think it's the same for Kilga.

Tps222

January 31st, 2005, 07:31 PM

He is probably working, many people have lives outside this game, and he could be busy, but he might be a good night one lynching, so we can minimize our losses.(if he is human of course)

GuidoHunter

January 31st, 2005, 08:04 PM

I CAN'T agree that lynching Kefit or Kilga would minimize our losses. I still maintain that we need to take this to the deadline to make the most educated vote we can. After that, though, it's up for grabs. I personally would vote for Matt or Mead simply because I don't know what they're capable of (anyone recall my Day 1 vote for roopert in TWG II?). Heh, funny thing is that I rolled a die in the chat room for the sake of seeing for whom my random vote would be and it came up as Kefit.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

evilbutterfly

January 31st, 2005, 08:08 PM

mead1

January 31st, 2005, 08:12 PM

I'm not saying to vote off Kilga or Kefit to minimize our losses, I just happened to muse about Kefit's whereabouts directly after that rant of hopelessness. Just some wacky coincidence. I didn't know Kefit was working and I am sorry if my statement appeared to imply anything.

GuidoHunter

January 31st, 2005, 08:22 PM

I was talking about what TPS said, both here and in the chat.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Kefit

January 31st, 2005, 08:49 PM

but he might be a good night one lynching, so we can minimize our losses.(if he is human of course)

I don't really have much to say as of yet. Analyzing the night one kill isn't going to get us anywhere, mostly for the reasons that aperson gave. Besides that, no one has said anything or done anything that strikes me as odd.

Well, actually, the Tps quote that I just provided does. Aside from the fact that he is trying to raise suspicion against me for an invalid reason (for the last freaking time, inactivity does not equal wolfishness), the way it is worded strikes me as odd. He is stating that I might be a "good night one lynching" under the assumption that I am human. Lynching a human is never a good lynching.

I'm going to hold off on my vote for now, but I am watching Tps closely.

HansSky

January 31st, 2005, 08:49 PM

HEY GUYS

HOW ABOUT WE VOTE OFF WHO WE THINK ARE WOLVES

I don't care if we have no leads. We can't just go and vote off the inactive people just because we don't want to lose someone that is available for this 24/7. If we do that, we might as well just give the game to the wolves, right here and now.

evilbutterfly

January 31st, 2005, 09:12 PM

True that. Inactivity has never been shown to prove wolfishness. But I think what TPS was saying is that most likely we'll vote of a human, so we might as well vote off somebody who isn't coming to the forefront. The wolves will be killing all the people who add to discussion, and if we lynch those people too the thread will become very inactive and nothing will happen except we'll all die and the wolves will win. Voting off an inactive player is a good bet because random chance shows they could be a wolf, but if they are a human then at least we didn't kill somebody who is contributing a lot.

Not that I agree with his reasoning, just that it's more than "he's inactive, he must be a wolf."

JurseyRider734

January 31st, 2005, 09:13 PM

Yeah, Hans has a point.

It's Day 1, you can't really tell too much out of anything except if you talk to the person privately, and I doubt that they will really say anything too sketchy because they're trying to be really cautious. It seems more things start to spill after a few days have passed, so it's best to just try to pick up little things by yourself until you and others can come to a consensus about who has racked up the most "suspicious points" and lynch them. It's THEIR fault for acting like an idiot and suspiciously.

blahblah18

January 31st, 2005, 09:15 PM

voting ends in 25.5 hours to clarify...
Carry on.

Kilgamayan

January 31st, 2005, 10:07 PM

I CAN'T agree that lynching Kefit or Kilga would minimize our losses.

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/modules/PNphpBB2/files/approvepost.jpg

alainbryden

February 1st, 2005, 07:28 AM

evilbutterfly has the right idea, but it doesn't mean it's necessarily going to have to happen. We can chill on the voting, because we still have lots of time. I would rather we take a 1/4 chance on one of the less active / helpful posters then go on really bad reasoning and take out one of our valuable players, like guido or kilga, or kefit.

Kilga said activity doesn't mean wolfishness. That's true, but that's not the point. The point I want to make no is that activity doesn't not mean useseless. Kefit and Kilga are both good players. I think those chats are a good idea, because there are a couple of people who act like jackasses the whole time and avoid any real talking. These people could be wolves. Then there are people that act entirely too serious and get mad when people go off topic - overdoing it essentially - this is suspicious. Then I'm sure there's the completely perfectly blended in wolf that is serious when he needs to be, and a jackass when he can eb. *be ;)

mead1

February 1st, 2005, 07:31 AM

I would like to agree with Kefit's suspicions on tps' statement. Note how if you read his statement and apply it, he saws if they were wolves, it would be a bad lynching. That was really, really, badly worded, or it was the mistake I said that the wolves would never make. Tps is also on my radar now.

Also, I am no longer suspicious of Guido. When tps suggested the "damage control" lynching, it would have been the perfect time to come up with some inane support of it that might get a few of us to join up too. I really don't think a wolf would pass up an oppurtunity like that. Then again, he kilga and kefit could all be wolves, but I'm not going there.

Tps222

February 1st, 2005, 10:46 AM

As I said in the chat, probability is that we are getting a human night one, so it is better to off someone who isn't contributing much. I know that there isn't too much talk about, but it would be nice to be around. Kefit has been a little more active, so he should stay, since he is a good player, but I am going to have to stay with my inactivity vote for night one, which I will change as soon as I get home from school. We need the most active people as possible, not talking does not help us.

Tps222

February 1st, 2005, 10:54 AM

As what Mead is saying about my post, I meant that it would be a plus if he is a wolf, and we got lucky.

evilbutterfly

February 1st, 2005, 02:35 PM

Tps, if you're a wolf, you're reaching too far for a lynch. If you're a human, you're doing a really bad job or presenting your ideas and coming off extremely much like a wolf. I think the only reason I understand what you're saying is because I sat and read all that got said in the chat, and others did not do that. Even if they did, you're putting strange ideas out there and it's gonna cost you if you aren't more careful.

Speaking of which: alain, at least I get votes/suspicion for acting devious and smart rather than acting careless and stupid. ;)

Kilga: more of a rebuttal than that would be good. At least Kefit posts real stuff when he's off of work and can post, whereas you just put that picture. If people were going with Tps's idea and voting for you, that would definitly NOT help your case at all.

mead, who I voted for before for trying to get people started on Guido, is now going with everybody else and going after Tps. Let's quote mead's own words on wolf tactics:

it would have been the perfect time to come up with some inane support of it that might get a few of us to join up too. I really don't think a wolf would pass up an oppurtunity like that.

Everybody seems to be turning onto Tps, so may be mead is looking to pull for a vote in order to gain support and kill Tps. Assuming Tps is human (which I'm not assuming, I'm just setting the situation up), mead switching to support his lynching is the perfect thing to do. Go for people that everybody is going for, and you look less suspicious, right? I might suspect Matt because of his flip-flopping (aight, Kerry), but when he realizes it he seems apologetic and like a newb. Probably because he is and just doesn't know how to take things. I understand that. mead, on the other hand, just switches and adopts other people's logic as though he made no previous mistake.

Then again, may be I'm just fishing for reasons because I'm a bit more suspicious of him than anybody else. Of course, being Day 1, that's about all we have to go on: slight suspicions. Thus, my vote stands, but again, it's nothing too serious, I just have nobody else to vote for.

mead1

February 1st, 2005, 02:39 PM

Tps, another problem with the "damage control" lynching is this: One of the main things you can catch a wolf on is by how they vote. If the humans voted for Kilga/Kefit, the wolves would bandwagon, then we would be exactley where we are today, only one less human (assuming they are human). There is no good reason to purposefully lynch someone whose only crime was inactivity, and whom we have no evidence against. You are a player with more veterency than I, and I know you would see this. Therefor, my vote goes to Tps222*.

*Vote is subject to change due to new evidence

aperson

February 1st, 2005, 02:40 PM

Hey guys, just checking in today to see how things are developing. Since activity is a big issue now and people might get suspicious if I'm not here: I'll be gone from 6pm to around 10PM CST because I'm playing poker with some friends.

whorlichan

February 1st, 2005, 02:53 PM

Whorli's Awesomely Cool Totally Not Ripped Off From Anyone Voting Guide:

evilbutterfly (1) - Matthew4444
mead1 (1) - evilbutterfly
Tps222 (1) - mead1
roopert (1) - Tps222

I think we need a bit more than this. Four different people with 1 vote each is not going to get us anywhere. That said, I still really don't have enough suspicion on anyone to want to vote for them.

Edited to add eb's vote, which I missed on the first look through.

GuidoHunter

February 1st, 2005, 03:04 PM

I'm expecting this to go to the wire, whorli, and because of that I expect an increase in posting in the later hours.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

aperson

February 1st, 2005, 03:17 PM

OnlineHost: Phonem Recursive rolled 1 16-sided die: 6

Ensuring I don't get a phantom vote...
I'll change for sure if I get home before ending (which I should)
Plus you're gay eyespew :P... eyespewgreekfire

JurseyRider734

February 1st, 2005, 03:19 PM

Can someone put up a voting chart please?

whorlichan

February 1st, 2005, 03:20 PM

Uh, Jurs? Look up a couple posts.

JurseyRider734

February 1st, 2005, 03:25 PM

Ugh, sorry. It didn't stand out to me because it wasn't an excel screenshot. But i'm going to vote for Tps222 because he's making himself look suspicious, and if he is a human, it's his fault for being an idiot and acting like he isn't one.

evilbutterfly

February 1st, 2005, 03:27 PM

Don't people usually respond when people vote for them? mead, have anything to say?

aperson

February 1st, 2005, 03:41 PM

JurseyRider suddenly looks suspicious now...

The whole time in chat she has been offtopic and I honestly don't think I've heard her say a single thing relevant to TWG and usually disappeared when convos got on topic. Judging from her jTWG history and the generally stupid and silly way she acts I think this could go each way, but she definitely appears green all around the ears. If she's a wolf, she's not a very smart one. If she's human, she's even dumber. I don't trust her either way right now... The tps bandwaggoning. She asks for the voting list then votes for the person with the most suspicion cast upon them (posts again 6 minutes later, seems like just the right amount of time to read the thread).

Jurs, you got some explaining to do...

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 03:50 PM

Kilga: more of a rebuttal than that would be good. At least Kefit posts real stuff when he's off of work and can post, whereas you just put that picture. If people were going with Tps's idea and voting for you, that would definitly NOT help your case at all.

I did it to be silly.

And it worked, as at least Guido appreciated the humor over AIM.

I do have one suspicion that stands out above the rest, but I'm waiting until a later period to vote, because the longer the game goes without evidence to the contrary, the better I feel about making the vote.

Afrobean

February 1st, 2005, 04:20 PM

Is it just me or is Jurs in both this and jTWG?

Wasn't it decided that doing so wasn't allowed?

blahblah18

February 1st, 2005, 05:02 PM

blame Chardish he was running signs up :p
Kilga, I definately laughed

Kefit

February 1st, 2005, 05:59 PM

I'm going to be leaving for work in a few minutes, and I won't be back until after voting is over. I still don't have anything more to go on than my suspicion of Tps, so he gets my vote.

CypherToorima

February 1st, 2005, 06:15 PM

Sorry everyone, but I am not going to be able to get on for the rest of the night, so I'm going to vote for aperson. It's nothing against him, it's just that I don't think he'll get enough voted to pull into the lead. If I somehow cause his lynch, I am going to apologize in advanced (unless he's a wolf, then I'll just say "I told you so" )

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 06:25 PM

All right, since the dealine draws near, I'm going to place my vote on HansSky.

Every game he has some crazy magical clairvoyant gut feeling that always turns out to be partially correct. So far in this game, he's posted two or three times, meaning he's around and paying attention.

So where is it?

Afrobean

February 1st, 2005, 06:31 PM

My random integer function on my calculator tells me that Whorlichan is a wolf.

PS for those who don't know, that's a random vote, and it's subject to change whenever I feel like it.

whorlichan

February 1st, 2005, 06:44 PM

Whorli's Awesomely Cool Totally Not Ripped Off From Anyone Voting Guide:

Tps222 (3) - mead1, JurseyRider734, Kefit
evilbutterfly (1) - Matthew4444
mead1 (1) - evilbutterfly
roopert (1) - Tps222
eyespewgreekfire (1) - aperson
aperson (1) - CypherToorima
HansSky (1) - Kilgamayan
Whorlichan (1) - Afrobean
JurseyRider734 (1) - Whorlichan

So Tps has 3 votes and is leading the count because...well, let's see the reasoing:

His posts seem to lead to the conclusion that he thinks voting off a wolf would be a bad idea, (paraphrasing blatantly stolen from mead1) and that he wants to vote off inactive people. We already know inactivity =/= wolfishness, so people are getting on his case.

Jursey voted for him because she thinks he's acting dumb not very human-like. Personally, I don't think she's acting all too human, or too smart either for that matter. Part of this game is reading closely what each person says, and she glossed over my voting guide without even bothering to read it. What if I'd said something important? (Not that I think my voting guide isn't important, but there wasn't much discussion in that post.) She would have missed it. Not only that, she is creating a bandwagon situation by jumping right on what mead has said.

Kefit is suspicious of Tps and has been from the start; he quoted him on page 4 as stating that [Kefit] might be a "good night one lynching" under the assumption that [Kefit is] human. And to quote Kefit himself, Lynching a human is never a good lynching. This is a good reason to distrust him; however I'm not completely certain that Tps isn't just an ignorant human.

And while I was typing all this up I got voted for. Afro, haven't we decided that random votes (which you say yourself it is) are pointless? I'm not inactive enough for you to want to use this vote to call me out, and you can't say that my very presence here is wolf-like, as I had very good real-life reasons to be inactive when I was a wolf (also the other games I played in, in which I was ALSO human).

I don't want to place a revenge vote, as Afro has done nothing to seem suspicious to this point, and voting for me is not a good enough reason. Having read Jursey's posts closely (as she does not seem to have done for anyone else), I'm convinced that she is a wolf.

EDIT TO ADD: Okay, not "convinced." Bad phrasing. But I am more suspicious of her than I am of anyone else at this point.

HansSky

February 1st, 2005, 07:07 PM

JurseyRider734

February 1st, 2005, 07:08 PM

whorlichan

February 1st, 2005, 07:14 PM

But Jursey, if all you're looking for is an Excel spreadsheet then you're NOT reading the posts, at least not enough to notice that what you're asking for is already there. You're looking for a picture and ignoring the writing that says the same thing.

I did not say you're acting stupid, but I don't think you're playing this as intelligently as you can. Nor did I say that I was the all-powerful, all-knowing uber-intelligent Goddess of TWG (that post has been taken by Tass, who's fighting for it against blah :) ). I know I make mistakes, and I know I'm not the best at this game--not even very good, in my own opinion, but I enjoy it. And one of the many reasons I enjoy it is because it takes thought and careful reading, and glossing over things is just not going to work.

Also, I am indeed glad that you're not placing random votes, because I think that is a terrible mistake for people to make, even on Day 1. So kudos to you for that. But hey, can we get some paragraph breaks in there? Big blocks of text = painful to read.

Tps222

February 1st, 2005, 07:19 PM

Ok I never said that voting off a wolf would be bad. Maybe my wording was wrong, all I meant to say was that the probabilty of the person that gets killed tonight is going to be human, so instead of random voting, like afro and a few others have done, I tried to take a logical solution to solve the whole "day one chaos". Apparently trying something new counts as suspicious. All I suggested as that since we have a high probability of getting a human, it would be a good idea to lynch one that is not helping us right now, to minimize our losses, but, if by luck chance he as a wolf, It would be a plus for us, that's all I meant by that last sentance. I'm not trying to be defensive but getting lynched for trying to solve the day one choas is stupid, and is better then random voting.

Mead saidTps, another problem with the "damage control" lynching is this: One of the main things you can catch a wolf on is by how they vote. If the humans voted for Kilga/Kefit, the wolves would bandwagon,. No intelligent wolf would ever bandwagon on day one. EVER. There is never enough evidence to, so it would look too suspicous.

The peopel who voted for me had no credible explanation for there voting process, except for kefit. Though, the only evidence he had was my wording, and the fact that we would be in the same situation tommarrow, which is not true. There would be a wolfing to go off of, and the rest of the special roles would find something out, and hopefully hint something to us. Also, when have we ever got a wolf on day one, none in which I have played, it was all just random voting.

Sorry if this post comes out defensive, but i'm really pissed that I try a new idea out, and it automatically makes the newbs scream wolf. Though, I am still going with my inactivity vote, but just for TODAY! Then i will be back to evidence. My vote is still staying with Roopert, for he hasn't voted, and phantoms are helpfull to wolves on night one.

alainbryden

February 1st, 2005, 07:23 PM

The Jursey Defence

As much as I hate to bring this up, I think age has to be taken into account a little. As much as Jursey knows her way around ffr, I don't expect her to take the same initiative in sub-face value analysis and staying relevant in chat as some others in this forum. That being said I think a moment of bad judgement, irrelevance, low effort, or shallow thought, whatever you want to call the shortcoming, isn't a good enough reason to find Jursey's behavior of consequence.

This isn't to say I don't get wolf vibes from her too, but I've become wearily used to them, even when TWG isn't on ;)

laundy, I'll post more in a while.

(edited for title)

alainbryden

February 1st, 2005, 07:32 PM

The TPS Defence

I just want to point out that the whole reason people are voting TPS is that strategy he just talked about right?

Well I don't know if anyone read my post before his with that strategy, or just didn't understand it, but that is the exact same thing I said. If you all read/understood my post, why didn't you go vote crazy on me for it?

I actually think TPS read my post, and sort of got it, but not really, and came up with his version and reposted it. I baisically said the same thing. If we have no leads by the end of the day, randomly vote a bad player, at least then if it does turn out to be a human (75% for a random vote) then it won't be any great loss to us.

This is exactly what TPS is suggesting, yet he got harassed for the idea and I'm not. Lay off TPS and lay off Jurs for a bit. I'm gonna read the thread, some comversations, put together some quotes, and make my vote. Then you can all bandwagon on me. I say this sarcastically. You shouldn't. But that's what most of you have been doing so far, whether you notice or not.

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 07:39 PM

Then you can all bandwagon on me. I say this sarcastically. You shouldn't. But that's what most of you have been doing so far, whether you notice or not.

http://www.groovy-chick.com/myphotos/edge1.jpg

JurseyRider734

February 1st, 2005, 07:40 PM

My vote is still staying with Roopert, for he hasn't voted, and phantoms are helpfull to wolves on night one.

So wait, are you saying you're TRYING to help the wolves? If this isn't what you mean, please restate it...because that's what it's coming across as.

During reading Tps's explaination, I was seriously considering changing my vote until I came to this statement.

alainbryden

February 1st, 2005, 07:45 PM

I'll explain Jursey.

If roopert is a wolf, and he's trying to get a phantom, then that takes suspicion off him right? A wolf might just risk that.

If roopert is a human, and he gets a phantom, if he's still alive when there is one day left, the wolves can have an easy time picking him off and winning the game with his phantom, providing an odd number of people are left.

By this logic, getting rid of someone with a phantom, who is inactive is more likely beneficial than getting rid of someone without a phantom.

Either way, it will likely change, if and when roopert comes back to vote, there are many who haven't voted yet.

alainbryden

February 1st, 2005, 07:49 PM

The HansSky Defence

Kilga, I wouldn't vote for Hans for that at all. Even if you're joking, don't give these noobs any ideas.

Hans never like talking about his gut feelings, either because he was afraid of being wrong, or he didn't want to influence people and seem wolfy, or he thought it was wrong to base decisions on a mere feeling.

To tell the truth, he has discussed his "gut" feelings with me, but I think he's right in not posting them here. People have come to mock him for such predictions, and he doesn't feel they play a role in the game, it's just something cool for him. He certainly doesn't make any jugements based on them and he doesn't expect anyone to take them seriously.

So don't vote hans just because he's going the right thing and not answering all your proddings about his gut.

JurseyRider734

February 1st, 2005, 07:51 PM

Some crazy clairvoyant gut feeling? Eh. I did, in fact have one thus far. But my strongest one did not say who was a wolf, but actually, who was a mason. But I have had some feelings about a wolf, but logic tells me differently. About that one person.

But there is one person that logic tells me is wolfish, and I have not been comfortable at all talking to about the game to. I have been going back and forth of who to vote for, and I've decided that my vote goes to Jurs.

I've been getting somewhat annoyed with Tps and his bad logic about voting for inactive people, and aperson has rolled dice to place his vote? People, I really don't think this is how the game should be played. But do what you gotta do, I suppose.

But with Jurs, she has been acting the way I was acting in Infiltration. Especially in the chat. I tried to avoid talking to people in the game, so I could just avoid lynches by just flying under the radar. It seems to me she is trying to do exactly the same thing.

I just hope I'm right.

I decided i'd come back to this, since I have decided to change my vote from Tps after alain's explaination(thank you<3)

Let's see...since when did you know if I was avoiding talking to people? When I was in the chat, I RARELY, very rarely, saw you say a WORD. Is this a repeat of Infiltration? Because I recall talking a lot to the people in there. If I was a wolf, yes, I would do what you did. But i'm not doing what you did...you're making it look like I was using your strategy. For all these people know, they could agree with you. Probably the fact that we talk all the time could be an alibi for knowing I don't talk to people. In actuality, I do. Why are you trying to make up something about me not talking? Also:

Hans: It's always my first one that's right.
Hans: My first one wasn't/isn't with you.

Then why did you change it to me, Hans?

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 07:53 PM

"All my proddings"? I brought it up once.

And would you rather I throw a dart at a dartboard? Because with you debunking theories for everyone it seems like that's your goal.

Tps222

February 1st, 2005, 07:55 PM

Yes, thank you alain, Jurs, you have been misinterpreting my posts all day, I don't know if I am typing vaguely, but I guess Alain could understand me. What I meant to say was that if Roopert by chance is a wolf, then getting a phantom is favorable for him. Sorry for my lack of clarity people.

eyespewgreekfire

February 1st, 2005, 08:04 PM

Im gonna have to vote for kefit. His severe inactivity is bad enough to not just be the result of work.

but he might be a good night one lynching, so we can minimize our losses.(if he is human of course)

I don't really have much to say as of yet. Analyzing the night one kill isn't going to get us any

and

I'm going to be leaving for work in a few minutes, and I won't be back until after voting is over. I still don't have anything more to go on than my suspicion of Tps, so he gets my vote.

is all he has posted so far. He has offered no ideas of his own and seems to be hiding in the shadows. In the past, kefit has been hardcore early on and more passive later in the game, so this seems to be a bit out of charecter for him.

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 08:07 PM

Except that up until three minutes ago, he had more posts in this topic than you.

Real great basis for your vote.

And Kefit has NEVER been "hardcore in the beginning" so I don't know what you're talking about with that.

alainbryden

February 1st, 2005, 08:11 PM

Eyespew and Kefit Defence?

Eyespew, unlike Kefit, has been very active on aim and chat, if not having anything new to say on the boards, so don't think it's that odd.

Even then, he should not think Kefit is not valuable. He is very valuable. Though quiet, he is one of our most critical thinkers. If anyone else votes Kefit I'm going after them for being a wolf. ie: don't vote Kefit!

eyespewgreekfire

February 1st, 2005, 08:12 PM

Kilga, for one, I have written more than he has, just more condensed, and two, my post is ideas, not filler. He presents nothing. What I am basing this off of is how bummed out he was both time he got wolfed first, and saying how much he wanted to play. Another game (VII i think it was, not sure) I IMed him a good deal, and he cared less and less over time. Thats not to say that this is conclusive evidence. I just want to get the ideas out. It is quite likely that I will change my vote, and I have IMed him to see if he would like to defend himself. Also, sarcastic, snide commentary has no place in TWG Kilga. I am trying my best to get the ideas out there and you come back with an insult. I apologise if I angered you with my post, but really, it is not like my reasoning is any worse than anyone else's here. (zero equals zero :P)

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 08:15 PM

Also, sarcastic, snide commentary has no place in TWG Kilga.

Tasselfoot?

mead1

February 1st, 2005, 08:31 PM

Well, my Tps vote stands, and I am off to bed. The decision is out of my hands.

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 08:32 PM

Okay, now that the alarm is over...

You made an observation. So did I. That simple. I may convey my observations differently, but by no means do I try to out-and-out insult someone. Don't take it that way.

This is how I ALWAYS play this game. This is how I always will.

evilbutterfly

February 1st, 2005, 08:40 PM

Jurs has been saying stuff that's wrong, and nobody has called her out on it. Other than the simple non-understanding of people's posts, there is some blatent misinformation:

The only reason I wasn't on topic in the chat was because NO ONE ELSE WAS.

Actually, aperson whipped us all into shape at one point and we were VERY on topic. This held up for quite some time. Then Jurs came into the chat and everything went awry. We were on topic, then she came back and distracted people again. It can't be blamed entirely on her, but she DID NOT help. When serious discussion was going on, she was absent, which brings me to my next point:

When I was in the chat, I RARELY, very rarely, saw you say a WORD.

He (Hans) was talking as I wrote this post. He talked before, and he'll talk again. He was quite active in the chat, actually. You sat in the chat and didn't type in there. Actually, most (if not all) of what you DID say was directed at Hans and/or Alain. I don't see how you can lie so blatently Jurs. I remember clearly YOU TALKING TO HIM IN THE CHAT. And when you stopped talking, he continued to do so.

Seriously Jurs, stop pulling stuff out of your ass. At least humans have decent logic.

JurseyRider734

February 1st, 2005, 08:44 PM

whorlichan

February 1st, 2005, 08:44 PM

Moving quickly in here...I really wish my AIM would stop being a ditz and work like it's supposed to so I could go back in the chat.

Whorli's Awesomely Cool Totally Not Ripped Off From Anyone Voting Guide:

JurseyRider734 (3) - Whorlichan, HansSky, evilbutterfly
Tps222 (2) - mead1, Kefit
HansSky (2) - Kilgamayan, JurseyRider734
evilbutterfly (1) - Matthew4444
roopert (1) - Tps222
eyespewgreekfire (1) - aperson
aperson (1) - CypherToorima
Whorlichan (1) - Afrobean
Kefit (1) - eyespewgreekfire

GuidoHunter

February 1st, 2005, 08:52 PM

Okay, after considerable deliberation, I'm placing my vote for Tps222. He's garnered the most suspicion in my mind, and it's greater than that showed by all the other players. I'm not all that confident about it, but I need to vote, and that's what I have.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

aperson

February 1st, 2005, 09:15 PM

Did AIM crash?

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 09:15 PM

lol AIM died

Sorry guys, I can't get back on and in the chat =\

Not that I was doing much of anything anyway.

roopert

February 1st, 2005, 09:16 PM

I vote Jurs. Her logic is all over the board and it appears like she is grasping to pin things on other people who don't deserve it. Also, in the chat just now she demonstrated her lack of understanding for the rules/probability saying that she thought the devil had a good chance of finding a wolf on night 1. I almost voted TPS, but he isn't throwing off the wolf vibe, and I think he can be an asset to us, so I'd like to keep him around a bit longer.

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 09:17 PM

IDEA

If people want to continue the chat, head on over to the FFR IRC channel. IRC is running fine.

aperson

February 1st, 2005, 09:17 PM

Channel / server please

Tps222

February 1st, 2005, 09:17 PM

We lost 6 people from the chat, but like 9 are still here

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 09:18 PM

irc.eggheads.org

#flashflashrevolution

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 09:19 PM

TPS: The AIM chat won't do much if 40% of the people can't be a part of it.

aperson

February 1st, 2005, 09:19 PM

Yes, we need everyone on IRC till AIM comes up, at this time this is sever that we can not communicate as much as possible!

Tps222

February 1st, 2005, 09:19 PM

I know, I was just saying that not everyone got kicked.

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 09:21 PM

Okay everyone, the new channel is #twg, since none of us have op privleges in #flashflashrevolution

Same server.

Afrobean

February 1st, 2005, 09:24 PM

Whorli, my vote for you was random. What I did was a took the player list from the first post. Then, I removed people who already had votes on them from the list. Then, I assigned a number 1-10. I used my calculator to randomly generate an integer for me, and it came up with 10. So I put my vote on you. I only did so, because I was unsure of who to vote for, and I wanted to be absolutely sure I didn't get a phantom.

Honestly, I have no belief that you're a wolf. Actually, I'm far more suspicious of jurs. Her posts seem to be the wild graspings of a wolf who is about to die.

JurseyRider734

February 1st, 2005, 09:31 PM

Since I have no allies and you all criticize every single thing I do to defend myself, while only looking at the bad side of things, I guess I can't say much else than that you're making a mistake.

Afrobean

February 1st, 2005, 09:33 PM

Sorry people, I forgot to bold my vote before. Jursey.

JurseyRider734

February 1st, 2005, 09:37 PM

Since i'm doomed, i'm just going to have fun and vote for Jursey!

Tps222

February 1st, 2005, 09:42 PM

How is that fun, you have no clue what you are talking about, you don't know the rules too well, and now you are giving up, you are forcing me to change my vote to you. Jurs

alainbryden

February 1st, 2005, 09:46 PM

whorlichan

February 1st, 2005, 09:48 PM

Whorli's Awesomely Cool Totally Not Ripped Off From Anyone Voting Guide:

JurseyRider734 (7) - Whorlichan, HansSky, evilbutterfly, roopert, Afrobean, JurseyRider734, Tps222
Tps222 (4) - mead1, Kefit, GuidoHunter, alainbryden
HansSky (1) - Kilgamayan
evilbutterfly (1) - Matthew4444
eyespewgreekfire (1) - aperson
aperson (1) - CypherToorima
Kefit (1) - eyespewgreekfire

This is where it stands. Jursey's making some sort of speech in the IRC channel now to save herself.

HansSky

February 1st, 2005, 09:49 PM

An hour left.

I really want to back off Jurs, those of you in chat know my reasoning. But it seems useless at this point.

But I also have no other leads right now, so it's useless for me to change. :-\

EDIT: I shall change. Tps. No time whatsoever now, because I have to go.

Tps222

February 1st, 2005, 09:50 PM

I would listen to jursey's speech, but I cant get into IRC, someone update me on what is going on plz.

Tps222

February 1st, 2005, 09:51 PM

I can;t get into IRC to defend myself, and I feel this to be unfair.

Kilgamayan

February 1st, 2005, 09:51 PM

Vote changed to Tps222 for the same reasons as alain.

"You're forcing me to vote for you" is an incredibly stupid thing to say at this point in the game. Jursey isn't forcing anyone to vote for her, given that before your vote she was all but dead in the water with only an hour left.

Tps222

February 1st, 2005, 10:01 PM

Ok, since I am unable to access IRC due to viruses, I will try to explain my vote (which i guess I have had to do all game). From what I saw in the aim chat, before everyone got kicked, Jurs was under high scrutiny. I wasn't going to follow because i was going to stay with my original plan. The, Jurs just kept saying stupid stuff over and over again, not knowing a clue about the devil, and misreading posts, or jsut skipping them. Then she voted for herself, this looked like either a complete give up of hope, or desperation to save herself, hoping that she could sway a few votes with it.

Then, she is trying to defend herself with the whole "but i'm new, and that's what happened in jtwg", which is a bull thing to say. Believe me, i acted just lie that inmy first game, and I was awolf, I used my newbishness as a weapon. Clearly, either Jursey is a wolf, and the wolves gave up on her, not trying to pull suspiscion to themselves, ro she is a bad human, who was just drawing suspiscion to herself, I can't find any good reasons to keep her, though, I'm not on that IRC chat, so if someone could give me an updat I would appreciate it.

JurseyRider734

February 1st, 2005, 10:02 PM

That certainly does it for me.

TPS

He just completely voted her for no reason. At all. She is acting human by not caring about the game, she clearly has nobody telling her not to vote herself, or not to not give up for the wolf team, and you dare give the wolves a free lynching? That is retarded. You are working for the wolves whether you mean to or not. Either way, GTFO now TPS.

Where's TPS's evidence on me? My "misinformation" like buttfly says? Even though on my point of view, it wasn't misinformation. Why are you bandwaggoning all of a sudden? To save yourself, and give the wolves a plus? TPS

blahblah18

February 1st, 2005, 10:03 PM

Top 2 vote getters
TPS with 7
Jurs with 5

40 minutes left

whorlichan

February 1st, 2005, 10:03 PM

EDIT: Meh, I read too fast. Blah has fixed his.

evilbutterfly

February 1st, 2005, 10:11 PM

I don't see why nobody else has backed up my claims about Jurs. She was there most of the time and said nothing important. Hans did speak, however. Please, would somebody at least tell that I'm not making things up? Jurs is saying she only posted what she saw, but she was in the chat all that time. She could have/should have seen it all, so why didn't she? Either she's inactive in the chat, which is why she attacked Hans, or she's "conveniently forgetting" info.

But regardless, I don't think either are wolves, in truth. They seem more like stupid humans than anything, and I hate to see it come down like this. Is there nobody else with doubt cast on them? =\

GuidoHunter

February 1st, 2005, 10:14 PM

Tps's defense seemed rather calculated to me. Maybe he had some help from a couple other players? I haven't seen him play much, but nor have I seen him post like he has been.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

roopert

February 1st, 2005, 10:22 PM

EB, we all have doubt. However, who if not one of them, who? We certainly can't random it and no one else is really sticking out. So, unless the seer picked a wolf night one and is for some reason waiting to release his info, I don't see another option. At the very least, we should make a knife in the box scenario if we are unsure about both of them.

alainbryden

February 1st, 2005, 10:41 PM

Looks like TPS is kicking it. I'm sorry none of us had more evidence on day one and we were all really paranoid about our decision, but I feel we did the right thing in not lynching Jursey, and we didn't have a hope in hell of finding someone better to vote for. Tomorrow, new person seen, new info from psychic will circulate, and hopefully we can pull together a better plan. Night all.

blahblah18

February 1st, 2005, 10:44 PM

After much deliberation the Council decides that TPS''s own words were proof of a person that seemed to impede the search for the Don, and it was agreed that he was to die, in the hopes that this was a successful way to save the entire village. As they string him up, not a single councilmember looks away. They can't show any sign of remorse or weakness to creep into the hearts and minds of the rest of the town. The council realizes there's nothing more they can do, and after a long day of deliberation, followed by an emotionally traumatic lynching, they retire to their homes.

It is now night 2.
I need PM's from those alive of the categories
Wolf,guardian,devil,seer

So everyone knows, the psychic will be apprised of the situation immediately AFTER the wolves choose who to kill. This is because there's always a chance the wolves could lynch the devil.

blahblah18

February 2nd, 2005, 05:53 PM

As everyone awoke the next day, they all rushed to the prearranged meeting point, yet 1 person was late in arriving. No one could see where aperson was. They went to his house, and there he was, crucified on his front door. All looked away, and several threw up at the sight. The stake throguh his right hand said "#" and the stake through his left hand said 2.

It is now day 2, this will close at 12:00 noon on friday, Feb, 4.
Good luck

evilbutterfly

February 2nd, 2005, 05:59 PM

WTF? Why would they kill a first-timer when people like alain are still around?

alainbryden

February 2nd, 2005, 06:02 PM

Clearly they were going for someone who likely wouldn't be guarded. That's terrible logic Eb. What do you think you're trying to pull? This makes me suspicious of you...

Afrobean

February 2nd, 2005, 06:08 PM

aperson was most definitely killed because of his smartness and the fact that he definitely wouldn't be guardianed. eb, the wolves would never go for alain or anyone, because the guardian is probably still alive and they fear giving us a known human. You know how much a known human helps the greens. I'm not suspicious of you, like alain, but didn't you think at all before you posted?

EDIT: I'm pretty sure that the other day I assured ap that he wouldn't be wolfed because he's still a newb. I suppose I was wrong. I'm sorry ap.

whorlichan

February 2nd, 2005, 06:09 PM

Alain, I think he's just pointing out that you're way more dangerous to the wolves than aperson was. You've played before, you've played well, and you're well-known, whereas aperson was just that--a first-timer. He did, however, make some good points in the chats, and it's possible that his words and, as you said, the unlikeliness of him to be guarded were reason enough for him to be wolfed.

I don't think eb's using "terrible" logic, he just said the first thing that came to mind.

JurseyRider734

February 2nd, 2005, 06:12 PM

I believe that one of the wolves were in chat when aperson was discussing how he was going to analyze posts with a technique...and i'm pretty sure that his intelligence stunned, yet threatened the wolves...therefore they would go for someone who could pose as a threat later in the game.

Kilgamayan

February 2nd, 2005, 06:36 PM

You'd have to be a damned fool to not realize how important ap was to the chat.

evilbutterfly

February 2nd, 2005, 06:54 PM

As I said in the chat (for those that weren't there): I said that above comment because it was my first impression.

Adding to that: I keep wishing we were still playing Infiltration, where lynching wasn't as big of a deal and where a lot more thought was involved. Now that I'm back down to TWG, it's like, not as important, and I've found that I don't think about it as much. It used to be that TWG was so much for me and there was all this stuff I had to keep up with, but now it's like nothing. Sorry for being stupid and not thinking through my posts and just spouting the first thing to come to my mind, I'll try to take this game more seriously from here on out.

alainbryden

February 2nd, 2005, 08:30 PM

I agree with you kilga, it was no mistake that aperson was picked. Aperson was the one that kept bringing the chat back on topic, he was always speaking intelligently, and well thought out ideas. I'm actually sorry I got paranoid about that. EB didn't actually suggest that I was a wolf, but I took it as donig just that. If was my mistake so jumping at him so strongly. Today is going to be much more thought out. I'm not sure about TPS, because it seems that no wolf would make such a mistake as we observed last night, and he seemed like a good player after what he pulled in his last game, but I still have a good feeling that he was a wolf.

Yesterday I kind of overdid it on the protection, I was reminded by several players that it doesn't help much by trying to shut down every accusation made, and that eventually I was going to make the mistake of protecting the wrong person, as I think I did initially with TPS.

On a side note, I'm finding it a little hard to keep track of everyone this TWG, because most of the action goes on in the chat room and it's alot harder to complile and reread everyone's opinions and ideas. If people do say something they feel is important either to their defence, the defence of another, or an idea that can be publicly noted, I hope they take the time to "put it on the record
here on the thread.

That's all I have to say for now. Keep your eyes and your minds open.

Kilgamayan

February 2nd, 2005, 08:33 PM

Uh, Cypher?

EDIT: o u trickeh boi ;o

evilbutterfly

February 2nd, 2005, 08:38 PM

I think the chat is starting to die out anyway. I, for one, am too busy for it now that there's serious discussion and it's during the week and I have schoolwork to do. I'm easily distracted as is, so I really need to keep away from the chats or I won't get anything done. Also, with the loss of aperson, who, as you said, kept bringing the chat back on topic, the chat will be much less helpful. I made it originally to help get people talking and be relaxed so we could see how people really act and get an idea of who the wolves are. Hopefully it worked successfully and Tps was a wolf, but we won't know until the psychic or somebody who knows the psychic comes forward with said info.

Regardless, I think alain may have a point in that we should be more active on the boards, even if we are just as active in the chat.

alainbryden

February 2nd, 2005, 08:39 PM

typo's kilga. I'm a firm believer in insta-edit

edit typos :P

evilbutterfly

February 2nd, 2005, 10:21 PM

You only caught it because I was confused and IMed you. Way to take all the credit, jerk. :P

And what's with the sudden decline with posting? Well, not a decline, but more of a COMPLETE STOP. What the hell happened, guys? 9 pages of Day 1 and then Day 2's a flop? All this silence is bad for the humans, so get talkative again.

GuidoHunter

February 2nd, 2005, 11:47 PM

Aw, c'mon. Day 1 started slowly (relative to how it ended), too. Anyway, I've had an incredibly busy day, but will be able to talk tomorrow. I've got some thoughts, but no time to post them.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

mead1

February 3rd, 2005, 05:38 AM

Well, I dont think he had any close friends who would want to get rid of him, as this is his first TWG. Now, I wasn't in the IRC chat, but there was obviously a wolf in AIM chat, because otherwise, they wouldn't know the IRC channel. I'll try to post the list of name when I return from school.

Edit: This happens to be one of the 2 major holes in my transcript. How ironic. Sorry guys, hopefully someone else has that info.

Afrobean

February 3rd, 2005, 03:17 PM

mead1

February 3rd, 2005, 06:59 PM

Not to mention jurs was in the AIM chat, and the IRC chat, so she probably saw how much of an asset he could be to the humans. The Tps idea makes sense as well.

evilbutterfly

February 3rd, 2005, 07:23 PM

It is now day 2, this will close at 12:00 noon on friday, Feb, 4.
Good luck

Um, guys, that means we have less than 16 hours. I, for one, will be at school for at least 5 of those, and asleep for about 6. So, I have 3 and a half hours now and a matter of minutes in the morning. We've just gotten to a 2nd page on Day 2, which sorely disappoints me. So far, the only leads we have to follow are me for my stupid post right after the day started (which I already explained) and Afro's logic about Tps and Jurs.

I still would like to believe that Jurs was just being dumb Day 1 and isn't a wolf, but may be she's just acting dumb to fool us. She likes the reverse psycho stuff, doesn't she? Anywho, I'm not voting now. I probably won't vote until the morning, in the 2 minutes I have because I'm always running late, it seems. Hopefully somebody can give me some good evidence so my vote isn't random.

whorlichan

February 3rd, 2005, 07:31 PM

Afro, I completely agree. Both Tps and Jursey were acting suspicious yesterday--I still think Jursey was the more suspicious. I also think she's using the fact that many of the old-timers here (alain, i'm pointing at you) know that she acts immature and rather dumb ALL of the time as an excuse to cover up for her wolfish behavior yesterday.

So I still think Jursey is a wolf, and I hope the rest of you realize it.

blahblah18

February 3rd, 2005, 07:37 PM

I"m pretty disappointed in the lack of stuff going on in the thread.... I thought over 36 horus was enough, and it definately should be. I hope as it seems to be that you're all talking on AIM and in chats. Everyone don't forget to vote.

Afrobean

February 3rd, 2005, 07:57 PM

Ok, as per eb's notice on the upcoming deadline(tonight will be my last time to see the thread), I will put in my vote now. I vote jurs. I already explained why she's a wolf in my last post on the previous page.

Matthew4444

February 3rd, 2005, 08:17 PM

I didn't realize how little time we had. To prevent a phantom, I'm voting eb until I have had a chance to review all available material. I'm currently playing catch-up as it is, so I haven't had much time to keep up to date. Hope this changes on the weekend at least.

Kilgamayan

February 3rd, 2005, 08:25 PM

I'm going to take a stab and vote alainbryden.

His attitude during the day yesterday seemed a bit too commanding and overbearing. Maybe as a quiet player I'm just naturally suspicious of the vocal ones, but not many are as vocal as he was yesterday.

I was talking to ap privately yesterday as well, and he felt the same way. ap mentioned how it was very possible alain was "making the rest of us play ping-pong between two humans" (referring to Jursey and Tps). I think ap also voiced a small concern for alain in the AIM chat, but it didn't get too much discussion from what I remember.

I know he said he was seered in the chat today, but with the presence of the devil I have no idea how dependable that really is. Plus he was asked a couple times who was seen today, and after several minutes of silence it took asking him a few more times before he finally said he "regretted bringing it up".

Afrobean

February 3rd, 2005, 08:48 PM

My opinion on the subject of alain: he is himself the devil. Think about it. It makes sense with all the things he said in the chat.

evilbutterfly

February 3rd, 2005, 08:49 PM

He said he didn't want the other who was seered to be revealed and wolfed. As was said in the chat (and debated about), it's probable that me or him will be guardianed, so he's able to come forward. He didn't say anything for the same reason Hans won't reveal his gut feelings. Either he reveals a wolf and gets killed for that or he reveals a human who gets wolfed in order to stop any alliances that may form.

Kefit

February 3rd, 2005, 08:49 PM

I just had an interesting discussion with Guido that I would like everyone to take a look at. For a bit of back information, Alain let it slip in the chat today that he was in contact with the seer, and that he had been seen. Then Guido contacted me, and this happened:

Ares113: Hmm.
Kefit42: Hmm, you say?
Ares113: Yeah.
Kefit42: This random vote bull**** is making me more suspicious of eb
Ares113: Why, exactly? I mean, I really don't have much of an idea of who's a wolf.
Kefit42: He knows that random votes only harm the humans
Kefit42: And he has to have some suspicions by now
Ares113: (Sorry if you've said it already, but I haven't been able to pay much attention to the chat)
Ares113: Very well.
Ares113: Anyway, I've gotten word that EB came up clean. I'm not certain I trust my source, but that's just what I heard.
Kefit42: Care to elaborate on your source at all?
Kefit42: Because just saying that is rather meaningless
Ares113: Sigh. I know. But I just got all this information today, and it was pretty sketchy, so I'm going to try and make some sense of it first.
Ares113: Apparently EB doesn't know he's been seered, though.
Kefit42: Hmm?
Kefit42: So its from the seer, eh?
Kefit42: Or more accurately, from Alain
Kefit42: Interesting
Ares113: Well, I'm not exactly sure how to answer that question now.
Ares113: Are you suggesting that Alain's the seer?
Kefit42: Possibly
Kefit42: But I doubt the seer would contact you
Kefit42: At least contact you saying he was the seer
Kefit42: I mean you got hte info through alain
Ares113: On the off chance that I was the devil?
Kefit42: No
Kefit42: Because alain abd eb have been seen
Kefit42: Leaving no room to see you
Ares113: Unless alain is the actual seer.
Kefit42: Thats pretty suspicious the way you just said that
Kefit42: Yes
Kefit42: If Alain is the seer, then what you just said doesnt come off as bad
Kefit42: That's the only way it works out though
Ares113: Well, I was kind of confused as to why the seer wouldn't tell me after I've been seered. The only reason I figured he wouldn't was if I were the devil, which is a slim chance.
Kefit42: So you are again implying that you have been seered?
Ares113: No, not at all.
Ares113: I was replying to this: Kefit42 (8:50:33 PM): But I doubt the seer would contact you
Kefit42 (8:50:44 PM): At least contact you saying he was the seer
Kefit42: Exactly
Kefit42: If you hadn't been seen, that was all that needed to be said
Ares113: I was assuming you meant: "But I doubt the seer would contact you if he seered you"
Ares113: Yes, then I agree.
Ares113: That makes perfect sense that he wouldn't contact me.
Kefit42: I don't see how you could have possibly read that meaning into my words
Kefit42: It seems much more like a slip of the tongue to me
Ares113: Haha.
Ares113: Well, now that I look at the context, I guess I just assumed it. When the seer contacts someone, it's often because that person's been seered.
Kefit42: Yes
Kefit42: But you weren't contacted by the seer
Ares113: No, I wasn't.
Kefit42: You were contacted by Alain
Kefit42: who might be the seer
Ares113: Well, I contacted alain.
Kefit42: wait
Kefit42: You contacted him?
Kefit42: Meaning you haven't been seen at all
Kefit42: Your story is not matching up
Ares113: ???
Ares113: Okay.
Ares113: I have not been seen, if what alain tells me is true. The ONLY way I think I could have been seen is if alain was the seer, which is only speculation and, I feel, highly improbable.
Kefit42: Ok, let me start over then
Ares113: Yes, lets.
Kefit42: you established with me that eb had been seen
Kefit42: alain, in the chat had established that he had been seen
Ares113: That's what alain told me.
Kefit42: There have been two seeings so far
Ares113: Okay. Hang onl.
Ares113: Well, yes.
Ares113: I'm still quite suspicious of alain at the moment, though.
Ares113: But regardless, continue.
Kefit42: So, this means the seer has not seen you
Kefit42: UNless he is alain
Kefit42: But lets leave that possibility alone for now
Ares113: Yes.
Kefit42: Either way, you got your info through alain
Ares113: Yes.
Kefit42: Because not getting your info through alain would mean the seer contacted you himself
Kefit42: I said that wasn't likely to happen
Kefit42: At which point you immediately responded with the idea that he wouldn't contact you because you might tbe the devil
Ares113: Yes.
Ares113: And that's where I assumed.
Kefit42: Which makes no sense at all
Ares113: You're right; it doesn't.
Kefit42: Because it had already been established that you had not been seen
Ares113: I was thinking in a general sense.
Kefit42: Perhaps
Ares113: That a seer (not specifically in this game) not contacting me after seeing me would be strange, hence my remark.
Kefit42: But it strikes me much more as a clumsy slip of the tongue of someone who is trying to keep a lie going
Kefit42: Our conversation directly pertained to the game at hand
Ares113: Sigh.
Kefit42: Why would you make a general remark such as that?
Kefit42: Anyway, I am gonna see what the forum thinks of all this
Ares113: I made the remark because I assumed you said something you didn't. Why I did that, I cannot understand myself, but it's what happened.
Ares113: Okay.

Am I grasping at straws here, or might I be on to something?

alainbryden

February 3rd, 2005, 09:47 PM

wtf @ kefit. I never said I saw Guido in chat. Someone asked who the seer had seen and I said that I was seen night one, and that I didn't feel comfortable saying anymore, because others aren't as likely to get seen as me.

I had a long discussion with guido about how we were planning to see him next, and if that's not what you got from what he was telling you, then you misinterpreted.

I didn't say it for the obvious reason that every wolf was probably in that room and saying who was seen was giving them all the effing information they needed to make their next kills. I was completely wrong in publicly mentioning that I knew the seer, on a hasty thought, I thought it would give everyone some hope and strategic thinking, instead it has you all rampant with confusion. I wish I hadn't said anything.

And Kilga, How can you say I was making you play pingpong between Jurs and TPS? I defended both of them all out, and then I switched to TPS accusations, who I doubted more, to save Jursey. I still think you are all very wrong for voting Jursey. She's not acting any different then usual, and she DEFINATELY doesn't have the skill to act completely the same as a wolf and as a human. She's suspicious for the same character reasons she always is, but her controvertiality does not make her wolfy at all. You are completely on the wrong track with her. Stop wasting your lynches on old ideas.

HansSky

February 3rd, 2005, 09:49 PM

Ok, we all agree on why ap was wolfed. I think now we should talk about who to lynch next.

So here's my reasoning as to why I'm even more sure that jurs is a wolf than before. We all know that wolves will vote for one another if they know that their comrade is doomed. Jurs was just about doomed. I think that TPS was a wolf and he voted for jurs thinking that later on, he would have no connection to her because he voted her. His plan backfired though and everyone jumped on his suspicious behavior and he ended up getting the lynch.

What do you all think of that?

No, Afro. I disagree. I did feel that Jurs could have been a wolf, but the way she conducted herself in chat made me feel differently. She was getting paranoid, and maybe was acting stupid. But, don't you think a wolf would tell her privately: "yo foo', stop actin' stupid". But she didn't really change her attitude, did she? She just got more pissed off. Nobody came to her defense except for me and alain, and I feel that these defenses a very logical and reasonable ones.

With that said, there are two people continuing to stay on the "Jurs is a wolf" train. Afro, and whorli. I am inclined to believe that one of you is acting stupid, and the other one is a wolf.

I find myself believing that whorli is more likely a wolf. She is acting very differently in this game than she has in others. I know she did move across the country, but still. It strikes me as odd.

JurseyRider734

February 3rd, 2005, 10:04 PM

I had been feeling the same way as Hans. I thought we all agreed that I was just acting stupid(which I admit, I was), but I also backed it up with a logical explaination in the chat today, and whorli and Afro were both there. I really don't find Afro's or whorli's reasoning for voting me too rational at all, and I remember yesterday whorli brought up me getting instalynched, which kind of made me think "What the heck, you're pushing for me to get insta-lynched?" That's why my vote is going to whorli

evilbutterfly

February 3rd, 2005, 10:14 PM

Well, I'm going to bed and don't know if I'll be able to get back here before the day ends, so...

Kefit, you didn't want my vote to be random, so how about this for reasoning: you're pushing people. You kept calling BS on me for not having any suspicions. I don't know other people in this game well enough to know when they're acting differently, really. Also, you don't know me well at all. I'm hardly ever strongly suspicious, and the one time I can remember that I was suspicious I lynched a mason. I really hesitate to act on anything, and am quick to be distrustful of the trustworthy and hopeful for the hopeless. Also, I know random voting hurts humans, but seriously, what else is there to do? I really don't think Jurs is a wolf, and nobody else has appeared much suspicious to me. The ones I have had contact with before, such as Jurs, Alain, and Afro, all seem to be acting the same. Alain is being slightly crazy and defending everyone, Jurs is acting a lot dumber than she is, and Afro is, well, being Afro.

Anywho, I'm suspicious of you (just a wee bit) because you've been trying to push me into suspecting somebody. Like you want me to jump on a bandwagon and kill a human. Also, that conversation you posted was confusing as hell. It's no wonder he slipped up, truth or lie, in there. You talked him in circles and I, for one, couldn't half tell what you were saying. It seems like you're trying really hard to incriminate people, even though you were saying it's not a big rush.

Or may be I'm just grasping at straws.

whorlichan

February 3rd, 2005, 10:23 PM

Jursey, that's what the French call "le vote de REVENGE." I vote you, so you make up some bs reason and vote me back. That's just dumb. I gave my reasons yesterday for voting you and I see no changes that would make me want to back off you.

And Hans...you of all people, with your wonderful "intuitions," should realize that I'm not a wolf. Yes I am acting differently in this game. I mentioned it in chat before and I'll mention it now. I HAVE TIME TO READ, THINK, and BE IN THE GAME. I've already apologized numerous times for my inactivity in other games which got me lynched, and now you're using my being ACTIVE in the game to vote me! So I guess I'm damned if I'm active and lynched if I'm not.

Once again, even though I think your logic is lacking and your reasoning bad, I'm NOT going to put up a revenge vote. I remain as I was.

JurseyRider734

February 3rd, 2005, 10:28 PM

It actually wasn't a "revenge vote". I was suspicious of you yesterday, I just never said anything. And my reasoning isn't bs...it's what I felt yesterday and even more strongly today after I see you voted for me again.

Kefit

February 3rd, 2005, 11:02 PM

Hey eb. You placed a vote. I'm not nearly as suspicious of you anymore ;)

Anyway, I strongly believe a random vote at this point in the game would be completely meaningless, and would do nothing but harm the humans, which is why I got on your case so much.

And Alain, I never said that you said that you saw Guido, nor did I imply such a thing. Anyway, I can understand why the chat I posted is confusing - it's often not clear to what points each of us are responding to. What really set me off was this:

Ares113: Are you suggesting that Alain's the seer?
Kefit42: Possibly
Kefit42: But I doubt the seer would contact you
Kefit42: At least contact you saying he was the seer
Kefit42: I mean you got hte info through alain
Ares113: On the off chance that I was the devil?

It had already been established that Guido could not have been seen if eb and Alain had been. However, upon rereading the conversation I realize that at that point Guido was playing with the idea of Alain being the seer, and his answer was in consideration of that possibility, while I wasn't considering the possibility at the time.

In other words, the chat doesn't lead to anything except brain damage. Sorry about that. But at the time I really did feel I was on to something.

Great. My suspicions of Guido are no more, and my suspicions of eb have been substantially reduced by his placement of a vote. Furthermore, my only suspicions of Jursey rest upon Tps being a wolf, which we have no certain evidence of, so I am not ready to go off on those. I guess it is time to look at some other possibilities.

alainbryden

February 3rd, 2005, 11:24 PM

Jursey and Whorlican, call it a stalemate.

Whorlichan, I still think your reasons for voting jursey are wrong, you just aren't familiar with the way she plays the game. Jursey, clearly whholichan really feels you're a wolf for some reason, she probably has a hacked gut or something (get it?) but she is definately attempting to back up her gut feeling against you with logic. What you posed was a revenge vote and I don't think it's fair. I've talked to Tass enough to know that whorli is very intelligent and commited when given the chance, and this is the first time she's had a shot ar really involving herself in TWG. Players evolve for the better, (well they should) and you can't jump on them everytime they raise the bar for the boards.

Evilbutterfly, I don't like the way you are trying to make teams. Ever since I attacked you you've been sucking up and defending me where there is no need. You are also trying to alias yourself with people who seem human to me, like Afrobean and Jursey in an attempt to make you look less guilty perhaps. You have not acted as in command as you did in Infiltration. I would be very inclined to vote for you for this misbehaviour, except I truely beleive the threat here are the 2 people I think, that have completely hidden out since the TPS and Jurs thing started last night. Haven't said a word since. I'm searching for quotes and I'll make a vote tomorrow. Incase my mom comes to visit early or I sleep in, and I don't get back on the computer by noon, by vote goes to evilbutterfly

You're right Kefit, I misunderstood when you said "guido said alain knew the seer and that the seer saw him". I was tired and connected "him" to guido instead of me. Sorry about that.

Kefit

February 4th, 2005, 01:41 AM

Tomorrow I get to take an incredibly difficult physics test that I am by no means ready for. Which means that I will be waking up early, going to school, and studying straight until the test begins. In other words, I will probably not see this thread until after this day has ended.

So I gotta place a vote now.

Sorry eb, but my suspicions towards you are about the only thing I have to go on right now. Although your placement of a non random vote has eased my mind a lot, I still find the way you reacted to aperson's death incredibly unsettling.

evilbutterfly

February 4th, 2005, 05:01 AM

Dammit :( I have to leave in just a moment, so I can't really take the time to say anything in my defense. I just hope everybody else votes otherwise. I hate dying in the first couple of days =\

mead1

February 4th, 2005, 07:13 AM

Now, I am quite new to this game and cannot say that I know the cast of characters all that well. However, I can say that jurs' beheviour struck me as being quite off. I don't know if it is just how she is, or if she was having an off day, or if there was some other reasoning behind it. In any case, due to her mannerisms, and the reasoning afro suggested a page or two back, the only serious lead I see is jurs.

whorlichan

February 4th, 2005, 07:49 AM

Well, I am off to classes myself. Here's the voting as it stands, I hope I'm not dead when I come home tonight.

Whorli's Awesomely Cool Totally Not Ripped Off From Anyone Voting Guide:

JurseyRider734 (3) - Whorlichan, Afrobean, mead1
evilbutterfly (3) - Matthew4444, alainbryden, Kefit
Whorlichan (2) - HansSky, JurseyRider734
alainbryden (1) - Kilgamayan
Kefit (1) - evilbutterfly

HansSky

February 4th, 2005, 07:51 AM

You gotta be kidding me. I can't believe you people still think she is a wolf. But my vote for whorli seems insignifigant right now, so I feel I need to change. I really don't have any time, as it is the end of my study hall period...but here it is. evilbutterfly

You have been on my suspicion list from the beginning. You have been acting odd, somewhat different than you used to. Especially in our AIM conversations. I can't upload it right now, because I'm at school. asdfadfhhdsg

Bell just rung. I gotta go.

mead1

February 4th, 2005, 08:53 AM

^ That to me states that perhaps Hans is also a wolf, and sees and easy way to save Jurs. Perhaps he will offer up some evidence to back up his vote, but by then it'll be too late.

Bye eb

GuidoHunter

February 4th, 2005, 09:15 AM

Is that a vote for EB, mead? If so, bold it.

Jeez, I really don't like the names on the chopping block. Of course I'm not going to vote for Jursey, as I still figure her human for my reasons from Day 1.

But I really don't want to vote EB, either. So, for now, I'm going to vote GuidoHunter to avoid a phantom.

I really want to see alain get back on, so if you see this, IM me, man, or at least post something new on the forums. I'll be sure to get back on before voting ends.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Kilgamayan

February 4th, 2005, 10:42 AM

Looks like a couple phantoms are getting doled out.

By the way, I just realized that we have an even number of players during the day time. Whose brilliant idea was it to grab an odd number of signups? >_>

blahblah18

February 4th, 2005, 10:45 AM

The council argued into the wee hours of night, and finally decided to choose evilbutterfly to kill. "At least let me maintain my dignity!" he pleaded.. "Alain, we grew up together as boys, and now our children are best friends" Matthew! Kefit! Hans! annnnyone..... those are his alst words as the noose cuts off his breating.
It is now night 3.. all you peeps that need to PM me, do your thang.

Phantom's to all those that didn't vote:
Cypher,Eyespew,Roopert
Anyone I miss?

Edit: my idea biotch.. it was for balance reasons, and considering one of the votes is a devilish vote, I considered it optimal this way.

blahblah18

February 4th, 2005, 09:43 PM

You all wake up, hoping against hope that the threat is over, and as you all head over to town square, a sigh of relief is heaved as it seems everyone is coming out, when out of nowhere a knife whirrs by and strike ]HansSky right in the left eye....
He crumples to the ground, and as everyone quickly scans the crowd to see if anyone is missing, it seems that everyones is still there. This obviously means that you need to continue your search for the members of the mafia... Have at it.

its day 3... this day will end at 12:30 Monday noon, giving you guys a gazillion hours... This is because I can imagine traffic being lower during the super bowl... I know I won't be around.
Good Luck

whorlichan

February 4th, 2005, 09:46 PM

Great. Not that Hans was very forthcoming with his intuitions before, but now we'll never find out who he was so suspicious of.

Kilgamayan

February 4th, 2005, 09:46 PM

Well, so much for my theory about Hans not producing hunches making him a wolf.

=\

HansSky

February 4th, 2005, 09:48 PM

Ugh.

Good luck humans. Take heed to what I have said before.

eyespewgreekfire

February 4th, 2005, 09:50 PM

First off, I would like to offer my sincere apologise (and anger at my ISP) for not being active during the last day.

I think hans's death is intersting. He presented no hunched. He did not make any unusual claims. My guess is that somebody knew something.

evilbutterfly

February 4th, 2005, 10:13 PM

Well I really love how much I was able to defend myself. I mean, the evidence was just so stacked against me and I guess that's why it was such a landslide lynching :roll:

Seriously: I hate dying in the first two days, as it happens quite often. And I suppose I'll cya in the post-game.

roopert

February 5th, 2005, 02:15 AM

Sigh. Well, right now I have much more on my mind than I can handle, and I probably need to take some time off from this game. Life just threw me a curveball and I need to deal with it. Sorry that I hurt the human chances. I am either willing to give my spot to someone who wants to take over, or gracefully leave. I doubt I'll be on the forums much at all for awhile, and if I do I probably won't post. Anyways, it's only 12:30 here right now, but I'm DEAD tired. Once again, sorry everyone.

mead1

February 5th, 2005, 09:24 AM

Ok, well Hans was probably killed because he was a vet who was not likely to be gaurdianed. He said in his last post to pay heed to what he had said before, except all he said before is that jurs wasn't a wolf and that eb was. Not really that helpful of a dying thought... Personally, I am still as suspicious as ever of Jurs. Then again, perhaps greekfire is right and Hans had a special role? Perhaps Hans was the seer and was trying to tell us he had seen Jurs?

Afrobean

February 5th, 2005, 09:36 AM

OK, as I see it, it is unlikely that both jurs and eb are/were wolves. eb voted jurs day 1 when she was tied with TPS and Hans (all had two votes- eb made jurs have 3 and put her in the lead). I'm not so sure of jurs now, because I had a gut feeling about eb (and apparently, it wasn't just me), and if eb was, then jurs is not.

This sucks. I hate having no leads.

JurseyRider734

February 5th, 2005, 10:33 AM

What I think the wolves are trying to do is get rid of all the players that are ASSETS to us. Stretchy, Hans? In the past these have been excellent players...in the end all the players who aren't as good problem-solvers are going to be left so that they have an easy game. All I know is that the wolves are smart...but a lot of people in this game are smart...so I really don't know what to say.

blahblah18

February 5th, 2005, 11:10 AM

Roopert is hereby removed from the game.
Afro, I almost yelled at bandit for posting on this thread, why you have his pic? It really threw me off :p

JurseyRider734

February 5th, 2005, 12:10 PM

Snapps also has it, blah. It's been confusing me, too.

alainbryden

February 5th, 2005, 12:12 PM

Oh my god, stay tuned, I think I've just been duped to ****.

Kilgamayan

February 5th, 2005, 01:08 PM

Snapps also has it, blah. It's been confusing me, too.

So do you, it seems.

JurseyRider734

February 5th, 2005, 01:22 PM

Snapps also has it, blah. It's been confusing me, too.

So do you, it seems.

I was convinced.

eyespewgreekfire

February 5th, 2005, 10:12 PM

Guys, although I am not really one to talk after getting a phantom, this is crazy. We need serious amounts more of communication. As it is now, we are giving up wholesale. If things are getting to the point of talking about Jursey's avatar, there is something wrong.

mead1

February 6th, 2005, 12:44 PM

I agree with the above point, the lack of communication will only lead to utter Phailure.

In other news, I am still suspicious of Jurs. She has been almost lynched twice, I think this should say there is good reason to be suspicious.

Until some more people start talking we won't get anywhere.

Kilgamayan

February 6th, 2005, 01:27 PM

I am damn sick of hearing everyone go "omg we need to talk more". First of all, thanks for pointing that out, I missed the first 10 goddamn times someone said it. Secondly, what the hell is there to talk about aside from the fact that Jursey is still in the game? "Oh, last night I found a footprint in the dirt. It matches Afrobean's shoe size. I bet he's a wolf." We can't just magically generate information and start discussing it (outside of the seer and psychic), so all of you can stop wishing we will, because it isn't happening.

This is, of course, assuming the wolves are not so stupid as to **** up and blatantly contradict themselves while in a chat room.

I'm not advocating against talking, but Jesus Christ, people, no one's going to talk if there's nothing to talk about.

I'm still suspicious of alainbryden, so my vote stays there.

Afrobean

February 6th, 2005, 01:30 PM

Guys I explained this already. Either jurs is a wolf, or eb was a wolf. We need to decide which it is.

If we decide that eb was a wolf, then we need to find someone suspicious. If eb wasn't a wolf, then we need to vote off jurs.

Also, I'm pretty sure we got an estension until Monday night, so it's not as bad that we aren't being as talkative now. We will be tommorow.

CypherToorima

February 6th, 2005, 06:21 PM

Alain, how have you been duped? We've been tuned in for quite awhile. It'd be neat if you'd tell us. At any rate, neither lynches really had much to go off of. I suppose that's the name of the game, though. Hopefully we'll be able to get some leads real soon.

alainbryden

February 6th, 2005, 06:25 PM

Afrobean, what the heck you mean?
you say you've said it before, i hear
but it's no more clear
there than here
You are aware, that wolves in past
have accused eachother to save their ass
and do their share, of pulling fast ones
don't be to fast to discount someone.

You're all lost and none the wise
what the **** am I doing? this crazy guy...
but Provoked by evilbutterfly
I'll invoke by thoughts by bustin' rhymes
but don't be wise, I don't claim this is cool
I'm actually feeling like a tool, anyhow
I find sometimes there's not the mind power
invested from all like mine by the hour
I scour for thoughts and something to grasp
but lately have passed somewhat lost these last
few days, most players have been in a haze
uncertain of ways to make valid claims
and this rap is getting really damn lame
so I'm ending this game. I'm finding it tough
to say alot - it's harder then I thought for me.
You win eb. (at rapping, you lose at being a wolf ;))

Really though, Afro, I agree that there's no way eb would go all out on jursey like he did if he were with her, and since I am in defence of jursey, because I've been pretty sure she's human, and so that the boards know, incase the seer I'm working with lied about eb being a wolf when he was seen, evilbutterfly was indeed a wolf and if that's reason enough for you to leave jursey alone then so be it.

I know I posted earlier about being duped, this is because I thought I had been tricked by the seer I was working with most of the game but I talked with some people and I think there was a large coincidence at hand that led me to the wrong conclusions. Either way, I appologise for not being able to write about it sooner because I was visiting my internet and the phone and internet got wiped out by some screw-up.

Kilga, I'm glad that one of us has a suspicion, now would you care to say why you're ever suspicious of me instead of posting twice a day nothing more than "I'm still suspicious of alainbryden" Other than that, Kilga is right, just coming on and posting "we aren't posting enough" doesn't make you any better. Make an effort, if anything. It's been a while since anyone has even posted the list of who'se left in the game, so I'll start with that:

Afrobean
Alainbryden
CypherToorima
Eyespewgreekfire
GuidoHunter
JurseyRider
Kefit
Kilgamayan
Matthew4444
Mead1
Whorlichan

This shouldn't be hard at all people. Finish it off and don't make any more stupid votes.

I'm gonna start by asking what Kilgamayan has to say other than "I vote..." because it's not day one random voting anymore and he'd better not keep randomly voting for me because I'm the most active player that's still alive. The only time you didn't vote me was when you changed your vote to TPS "for the same reasons as alain" You brought me up again after that, saying that you thought I was making you all play "ping-pong" between jursey and TPS, and after I thouroughly described what proportion of bull**** that was, you insist on bringing my name up again, so I must ask you. Why is that?

I'll add in that I have low suspicion for mead1, who is new, but still early on took to voting TPS and evilbutterfly with reasoning quite accusingly, both which we can assume were wolves I hope. A new player wouldn't think twice about refraining from voting his mates IF he were a wolf. Since mead voted at least one known wolf early on, with good reason, I think it's safe to say he's human.

For the record, I'm having thoughts on afrobean who was hardcore on Jursey along with evilbutterfly. I'm looking at more of his posts about this and I suggest members also look into Afrobean as a potential wolf. He fits the profile so far.

Also cautious about matthew who has said several times he is putting together some good stuff, but hasn't made any meaty posts yet. I'll leave him on the backburner for now though because he's new.

That's all I offer for now,
no more ideas roaming about
hope you read with a mind that's stout
this is alainbryden, over and out
;)

blahblah18

February 6th, 2005, 09:09 PM

so you all know, this won't close til about 2PM or so tomorrow, to give you guys a bit more time

Afrobean

February 6th, 2005, 09:34 PM

Kefit

February 6th, 2005, 09:45 PM

Ares113: Anyway, I've gotten word that EB came up clean. I'm not certain I trust my source, but that's just what I heard.
Kefit42: Care to elaborate on your source at all?
Kefit42: Because just saying that is rather meaningless
Ares113: Sigh. I know. But I just got all this information today, and it was pretty sketchy, so I'm going to try and make some sense of it first.
Ares113: Apparently EB doesn't know he's been seered, though.

incase the seer I'm working with lied about eb being a wolf when he was seen

WHAT?

Someone is lying here - it looks like either Guido or Alain is a wolf. Now look at this:

I had a long discussion with guido about how we were planning to see him next, and if that's not what you got from what he was telling you, then you misinterpreted.

It appears that alain did have an aim conversation where he told Guido the info that Guido gave me in the first quote of this post. Furthermore, alain was not at all alarmed when I posted the conversation where Guido told me that eb had been seered as human. This seems to indicate to me that alain is doing the lying here.

alainbryden, you have some 'splaining to do.

JurseyRider734

February 6th, 2005, 09:56 PM

Oh, crap. That means that I need to get my vote on, because I won't be able to post again before 2 tommorow.

I suppose I'll vote kilga. I hate to bandwagon, but I feel that kilga is the most likely candidate for wolf. Also, note that Kilga was the one that diverted attention toward jurs' av.

PS How do I fit the profile of a wolf, alain? Just because I was pushing for jurs? Well, guess what, you had information I didn't. I knew already that it would be either jurs or eb, and it really seems that what you've said about eb is true. Usually he mentions over AIM how he's dissappointed he died, but this time, he made a thread about it. That's pretty weird I think.

So wait....Kilga diverting attention to my avatar makes him a wolf? NOTHING was going on...nothing was happening in the thread...he wasn't diverting any attention. There was none to be given to anything else anyways. I'm also a bit curious to WHY you've been pushing to lynch me for THREE DAYS. Obviously it has come to others' attention that the suspicion on me has passed, other than you and whorli. There has been substantial evidence put up proving that I am a human, which I am. Why do you persist to call me a wolf? Afro, I think YOU have some more explaning to do.

alainbryden

February 6th, 2005, 10:02 PM

Afrobean, looking the history of, not only your series of accusations about Jursey, but your posting after that, there is a serious pattern of conviction with lack of evidence. This last post is a perfect example, I left plenty of room to search for posts that suggested Kilga's lack of evidence and other things, but you brought up a relatively irrelevant aspect of offtopicness that is really a part of all of kilga's posts.

First Kefit, those were two different conversations with Guido, in the one where I told him eb was human, we were still suspicious that Guido was a wolf and was planning to see him. I've already talked to Guido about this today now that we have seen him. The general idea was

1) Not to let the wolves have any idea that eb was discovered, lest they start to pull tricks that completely disconnect themselves from eb, since they know he's doomed and we don't know they know that.

2) Secondarily, it was known to us that If guido was seen to be human the next day, we were safe just explaining my reasoning for saying what I said about eb being human later. I didn't anticipate that he would spread this and cause the confusion it now has caused. If guido was infact a devil, we were doing ourselves a favor by saying eb was human, because he would know eb was a wolf, and would thus deduce that since we were pretending the opposite, he would think that I was the devil, and then tell me then I would be able to infiltrate the wolves and find out ever last person we needed to kill.

Today we saw guido was a human, and then I corrected that statement, because he was as curious as you were, and everything was resolved exactly as planned, well until now. But I think that's been cleared up now.

whorlichan

February 6th, 2005, 11:00 PM

Crap. I don't want to vote for a human, and I still have no idea who's lying and who's not. I'm not going to stick a vote on Jursey again, even though I'm still not certain of her--but I don't see anyone else who's got any kind of suspicious activity going on where I can see it.

I also hate to bandwagon. But it seems Kilga is making baseless assumptions in his voting techniques, mostly against alain, who so far has been very helpful to the humans.

Kilgamayan

February 6th, 2005, 11:49 PM

I voted alain last round because of how he acted over AIM and whatnot. He was incredibly domineering - too domineering for my tastes (and aperson's as well, as we discussed in private).

I would hardly call that baseless given the complete lack of information these days.

Nothing new has come up this round to make me believe otherwise, unless there's something in that rhyme which I didn't bother reading (and people said my commenting on Jursey's avatar was distracting) that proved his innocence.

mead1

February 7th, 2005, 05:18 AM

Okay folks, I haven't a clue who to vote for. So to avoid the phantom, I vote eyespewgreekfire. No offence to eyespew, my suspicions of him are few. (Oh lord, I rhymed).

eyespewgreekfire

February 7th, 2005, 07:10 AM

Mead, your vote for me being random at this stage is a bit late. If you find evidence against someone, vote for them, and if you don't, look harder.

Kilga, alain is always domineering. (I call him "Tass 2.") That is just how he plays his game. As to suspicions about him, the only difference I see between him and everyone else is that 1. he claims to have been seen and 2. he searches for evidence and puts together an argument when he votes, rather than the popular vote without reason that everyone else enjoys.

blahblah18

February 7th, 2005, 09:40 AM

I AM KEEPING THIS THREAD OPEN UNIL 4 PM EST FOR ALL PEOPLE THAT SEEM TO NOT GET BACK FROM SCHOOL UNTIL 3 PM.

alainbryden

February 7th, 2005, 10:58 AM

3 Kilgamayan - alainbryden, Afrobean, Whorlichan
2 alainbryden - Kilgamayan, Kefit
1 Afrobean - JurseyRider
1 eyespewgreekfire - Mead1

Not voted: CypherToorima, Eyespewgreekfire, GuidoHunter, Matthew4444

you should have voted while you were on eyespew. I hope you get on again. People with two phantoms are just way too dangerous.

Kilgamayan

February 7th, 2005, 11:57 AM

1. he claims to have been seen

That was the other thing, thanks for reminding me.

I remember when alain first implied he'd been contacted, a couple of us (including myself) asked him point blank who the other seered (is that even a word?) person was. We got no response for a good five minutes, and several of us had to ask again later before he would say "I regret bringing it up", which isn't really much of a response. Something with that didn't sit well with me at all, and I'm guessing since ap came to me about him it didn't sit well with him either.

GuidoHunter

February 7th, 2005, 11:58 AM

Well, I'm sorry I don't have much time to spend here, but I still need to put my vote in for Kilgamayan. I've been suspicious of him all game, and now he gets my vote.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Kilgamayan

February 7th, 2005, 12:25 PM

I don't have much time to spend here

http://67.18.37.15/195/117/upload/p506372.jpg

GuidoHunter

February 7th, 2005, 12:56 PM

Haha, yeah, I definitely made this post first, BEFORE I decided to skip Thermodynamics. Regardless, though, it would have taken much more time to compose a post here rather than two two-line posts and one that I had been thinking of for some time.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

Kilgamayan

February 7th, 2005, 12:58 PM

That still doesn't explain your vote though. :(

GuidoHunter

February 7th, 2005, 01:06 PM

That still doesn't explain your vote though. :(

Nope, sure doesn't. But, for the time being, just be satisfied with: I've been suspicious of him all game

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

eyespewgreekfire

February 7th, 2005, 01:22 PM

Gonna have to vote kefit. Something is not right with him. His reasons for voting alain are a chink in a logic chain, which has been shown not to be a chink. Guido and Alain (although I have no reason to know) could simply have had either a miscommunication or alain could have decided it best to see guido's reaction before telling him the truth, or it could all be lies. Add this to his multiple excuses for not playing (physics test and work for example) and you get someone suspicious without too many chances to look suspicious. As I see it, kefit is trying to take down our star player. We all know that alain is part of a seer alliance, so his death would be very bad. Although I am not in the know about this alliance's inner workings, I know from the past that they have won the game for humans in the past.

Kilgamayan

February 7th, 2005, 02:00 PM

But, for the time being, just be satisfied with: I've been suspicious of him all game

Normally I wouldn't care, but right now it looks like I'm going to lose with 4 votes, 1 of which has no backing (yours), one of which has faulty backing (whorli's), and one of which has faulty/no backing (Afro's). Only alain had a real reason for voting for me. (Side note: if you really hate bandwagoning, don't do it. Duh.)

Needless to say, I wouldn't mind knowing why I'm about to die. >_>

mead1

February 7th, 2005, 02:10 PM

Complete history of votes by Kilga

All right, since the dealine draws near, I'm going to place my vote on HansSky.

Every game he has some crazy magical clairvoyant gut feeling that always turns out to be partially correct. So far in this game, he's posted two or three times, meaning he's around and paying attention.

So where is it?

Ok, day 1 votes are always rather petty, but this one is basically an inactivity vote. Note how Kilga has always been quite set against inactivity votes.

Vote changed to Tps222 for the same reasons as alain.

"You're forcing me to vote for you" is an incredibly stupid thing to say at this point in the game. Jursey isn't forcing anyone to vote for her, given that before your vote she was all but dead in the water with only an hour left.

This vote is entirely reasonable, but one will notice there is no actual reasoning by Kilga. Not that this alone is incriminating, but it could easily be wolfish bandwagoning.

I'm going to take a stab and vote alainbryden.

His attitude during the day yesterday seemed a bit too commanding and overbearing. Maybe as a quiet player I'm just naturally suspicious of the vocal ones, but not many are as vocal as he was yesterday.

I was talking to ap privately yesterday as well, and he felt the same way. ap mentioned how it was very possible alain was "making the rest of us play ping-pong between two humans" (referring to Jursey and Tps). I think ap also voiced a small concern for alain in the AIM chat, but it didn't get too much discussion from what I remember.

I know he said he was seered in the chat today, but with the presence of the devil I have no idea how dependable that really is. Plus he was asked a couple times who was seen today, and after several minutes of silence it took asking him a few more times before he finally said he "regretted bringing it up".

This vote, in essence, is because alain was vocal and overbearing. This seems to be the case in all of the previous games too, wether alain was a wolf or not. There is also a conversation with ap mentioned, but no reasoning by ap mentioned. There is no proof either way whether this conversation ever happened, nor did ap ever voice any concern about alain in this forum.

I am damn sick of hearing everyone go "omg we need to talk more". First of all, thanks for pointing that out, I missed the first 10 goddamn times someone said it. Secondly, what the hell is there to talk about aside from the fact that Jursey is still in the game? "Oh, last night I found a footprint in the dirt. It matches Afrobean's shoe size. I bet he's a wolf." We can't just magically generate information and start discussing it (outside of the seer and psychic), so all of you can stop wishing we will, because it isn't happening.

This is, of course, assuming the wolves are not so stupid as to **** up and blatantly contradict themselves while in a chat room.

I'm not advocating against talking, but Jesus Christ, people, no one's going to talk if there's nothing to talk about.

I'm still suspicious of alainbryden, so my vote stays there.

This vote is for the same reasons as the last, so there's not much to say here.

For continually casting votes with rather weak reasoning, I vote

Kilgamayan

GuidoHunter

February 7th, 2005, 02:31 PM

Fine. I'm clothed, fed, and rested, now, so maybe I can give you something. I expect a little more from Kilga, but haven't seen it. I have yet to see much of any discussion that serves to help the humans out. Both in the forums and in the chat room I've seen you hang out behind the scenes, out of the limelight. When you do surface, though, it's to attack alain. From Day 1 you've been on his case, and why wouldn't any wolf want to get rid of him, especially since he's likely been seered and is often instrumental in gathering people into an alliance. Now, I was suspicious of him, too, but after talking to him for a while I'm much more inclined to trust him, whereas you still seem to be trying to start an anti-power player bandwagon.

You just have seemed wolfish to me from the beginning, and your actions still smack of lupine origin. Remember that time I IMmed you? It didn't last very long because I couldn't bring myself to trust you with my information.

I dunno, maybe your relative inactivity has been from IRL happenings beyond your control, maybe you, like I, haven't posted much on the forums because you've been active on AIM and are trying to figure things out before making them public. But that's why I'm voting for you.

EDIT: Oh, and now your SS can have me being the latest poster on all four "Life" forums.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

blahblah18

February 7th, 2005, 02:35 PM

Kilga is dead... sorry this is real short, but i'm not home right now and am on a public terminal to quickly say this.
PM me your stuff everyone and i'll write a story when I come home tonight.

blahblah18

February 7th, 2005, 05:40 PM

As you all wake up the next morning, you hope against hope that this dreaful ordeal is over, but as you gather to the square to continue your daily ritual you see a flash of silver streak through the air. Instantly following it another flash of silver comes and the 2 collide. As you all rush to see what it was, you see that both flashes of silver were throwing knives, and one of them had a flourished D carved into it.
This was obviously the Don's attempt to kill someone, and it looked like if it wasn't for the help of someone,
GUIDOHUNTER WOULD HAVE BEEN A GONER. Luckily though, it seems he has a guardian angel.

It is now Day 4.
you have until Wednesday at 8 PM.

GuidoHunter

February 7th, 2005, 05:43 PM

OWNED!!!

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

mead1

February 7th, 2005, 06:01 PM

^ Agree'D

I'd like to thank that nameless saviour of guido, your 1337 skill is appreciated.

GuidoHunter

February 7th, 2005, 06:12 PM

Oh yeah, guardian, seer, psychic, masons, feel free to come forth if you already haven't.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

CypherToorima

February 7th, 2005, 06:13 PM

OWNED!!!

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

basically sums it all up. Good job gaurdian

at any rate, to prevent another friggin phantom, I'm going to go who I was going to vote for last round. Afro, you are just to...sure. It's like...we know eb was a wolf, and then you come out with "it was either eb or jurs" but who says it couldn't be both. you try and pose an open-mindedness when you are basically saying "jurs is human." you try to present that in disguise. You are my biggest lead, and sadly, it's not that even big of lead

GuidoHunter

February 7th, 2005, 06:23 PM

Are the wolves getting desperate? I know that when I went to wolf a likely guarded person it was out of desperation, but, then again, I'm not as likely to have been guarded as Tass.

I mainly posted this to get on a new (unstretched) page.

EDIT: Added "(unstretched)" because I forgot to mention the whole point of that post.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

whorlichan

February 7th, 2005, 06:29 PM

Cypher, how can you be so sure eb was a wolf? You vote for Afro because he is so "sure," but you yourself haven't given an explanation for what you're so sure of.

CypherToorima

February 7th, 2005, 06:40 PM

I'm decided to put up both posts that basically made me sure that eb was a wolf
Ares113: Anyway, I've gotten word that EB came up clean. I'm not certain I trust my source, but that's just what I heard.
Kefit42: Care to elaborate on your source at all?
Kefit42: Because just saying that is rather meaningless
Ares113: Sigh. I know. But I just got all this information today, and it was pretty sketchy, so I'm going to try and make some sense of it first.
Ares113: Apparently EB doesn't know he's been seered, though.

incase the seer I'm working with lied about eb being a wolf when he was seen

WHAT?

Someone is lying here - it looks like either Guido or Alain is a wolf. Now look at this:

I had a long discussion with guido about how we were planning to see him next, and if that's not what you got from what he was telling you, then you misinterpreted.

It appears that alain did have an aim conversation where he told Guido the info that Guido gave me in the first quote of this post. Furthermore, alain was not at all alarmed when I posted the conversation where Guido told me that eb had been seered as human. This seems to indicate to me that alain is doing the lying here.

alainbryden, you have some 'splaining to do.

then, alain counters with
Afrobean, looking the history of, not only your series of accusations about Jursey, but your posting after that, there is a serious pattern of conviction with lack of evidence. This last post is a perfect example, I left plenty of room to search for posts that suggested Kilga's lack of evidence and other things, but you brought up a relatively irrelevant aspect of offtopicness that is really a part of all of kilga's posts.

First Kefit, those were two different conversations with Guido, in the one where I told him eb was human, we were still suspicious that Guido was a wolf and was planning to see him. I've already talked to Guido about this today now that we have seen him. The general idea was

1) Not to let the wolves have any idea that eb was discovered, lest they start to pull tricks that completely disconnect themselves from eb, since they know he's doomed and we don't know they know that.

2) Secondarily, it was known to us that If guido was seen to be human the next day, we were safe just explaining my reasoning for saying what I said about eb being human later. I didn't anticipate that he would spread this and cause the confusion it now has caused. If guido was infact a devil, we were doing ourselves a favor by saying eb was human, because he would know eb was a wolf, and would thus deduce that since we were pretending the opposite, he would think that I was the devil, and then tell me then I would be able to infiltrate the wolves and find out ever last person we needed to kill.

Today we saw guido was a human, and then I corrected that statement, because he was as curious as you were, and everything was resolved exactly as planned, well until now. But I think that's been cleared up now.

alainbryden

February 7th, 2005, 06:46 PM

whorlichan, I've publicly stated twice that my sources confirm eb as a wolf.

once here:

*unless* the seer I'm working with lied about eb being a wolf when he was seen, evilbutterfly was indeed a wolf and if that's reason enough for you to leave jursey alone then so be it.

and once here:

Not to let the wolves have any idea that eb was discovered, lest they start to pull tricks that completely disconnect themselves from eb, since they know he's doomed and we don't know they know that.

*edit* cypher saw this too I guess. Have you been paying attention?

whorlichan

February 7th, 2005, 07:09 PM

I saw those. I wasn't certain as to whether I trusted you guys enough to believe everything you said. Not being involved in the alliance myself, I'm not "in" on these things as fast as you are.

But with all this evidence on your side, I'm more and more inclined to trust you guys.

Afrobean

February 7th, 2005, 07:47 PM

at any rate, to prevent another friggin phantom, I'm going to go who I was going to vote for last round. Afro, you are just to...sure. It's like...we know eb was a wolf, and then you come out with "it was either eb or jurs" but who says it couldn't be both. you try and pose an open-mindedness when you are basically saying "jurs is human." you try to present that in disguise. You are my biggest lead, and sadly, it's not that even big of lead
Firstly, I did know that eb was seer'd as a wolf. Secondly, it had to be either eb or jurs as a wolf, because there's no way both could be. eb put jurs into the lead on day 1. That's something a wolf would never do to another wolf. So, yes, according to this logic, jurs must be human (assuming of course that alain's info about eb having been seen as a wolf is true).

Thirdly, and this is the funny thing, I was starting to believe that Guido was a wolf, because of this goings on with Alain. He is now for sure human though.... Well, Cypher, you're now at the top of my list. Your jumping on me like this is exactly what a wolf would do. Alain voices an opinion that I may be a wolf, so a real wolf thinks "hmm... I can probably quickly throw a vote on them and I won't garner any suspicion." Well, guess what Cypher; I'm suspicious of you now, and if you don't justify yourself well enough by the end of the voting period, then I'll be putting my vote on you.

CypherToorima

February 7th, 2005, 07:57 PM

Actually, I was going to vote for you before guido was saves. So, I don't know what "Thirdly, and this is the funny thing, I was starting to believe that Guido was a wolf, because of this goings on with Alain." has anything to do with anything. Honestly, what do I have to justify. I've put my reasons on the table just like you have. It's like...when you vote for me, I'll ask you to justify yourself, and then you'll probably refer back to your post. I've told you my reasons. What else can I say. Pull something out of thin air. right :roll: So are you saying whenever someone votes for anyone, it's wolfish, because they appearantly "jumping" on whoever. Lastly, my vote was completey unrelated to alain's. I can tell you right now that I don't even remember him voting for you. while I was at school, I was recalling certain events in my mind, rolling them over, trying to examine them. Hell, my vote for you isn't even a strong one, I just want to prevent myself from having another phantom.

So, afro, if you don't justify your suspisions of me, I'll have to keep my vote the same :roll:

CypherToorima

February 7th, 2005, 08:00 PM

expansion: "I can tell you right now that I don't even remember him voting for you. while I was at school, I was recalling certain events in my mind, rolling them over, trying to examine them." The person that cam up most wolfish was you. Now I see what you're saying, but still, wolves have to pull many more risky maneuvers because of the level of playing. Was jurs lynched, no. And I believe that's what they were hoping for.

Afrobean

February 7th, 2005, 08:13 PM

I understand what you're saying Cypher. Just a quick question, though: The day just began, so why did you already vote for me?

CypherToorima

February 7th, 2005, 08:15 PM

Just in case something else prevent me from getting to the computer for a long period of time. It's happened before, and I don't want it to happen again.

alainbryden

February 8th, 2005, 12:48 PM

Afrobean
Alainbryden
CypherToorima
Eyespewgreekfire
GuidoHunter
JurseyRider
Kefit
Matthew4444
Mead1
Whorlichan

The following people have been uninvolved in any aim or forum conversation as far as I am aware:

JurseyRider (Who I just found out is 15, not 11 ?)
Matthew4444 (I had to check twice to make sure he's still playing in this game)
Mead1 (The most thing he's said in the past few was a mightily enthusiastic and human congradulations to our anonymous seer. gg.)

I, like others, doubt jursey is a wolf because she was so against tps and eb, both who, to the best of my knowlege, are wolves.

The last wolf, if there is infact one left, will have very little confidence, I beleive, due to his fellow wolves being gone, and, especially if a relatively new player, he will be unsure of himself. My deepest suspicions now lie with mead1 and especially matthew4444. It wouldn't surprise me if one of them were wolves and it took us forever to find out because it is just so hard to pin newB's for anything. They aren't usually as active and are hard characters to judge. I think it's now late enough in the game that we should consider the real possibilities of the last wolf being one of the hidden away players. It is thus that I place my vote for matthew444 and ask him, where the heck have you been?

JurseyRider734

February 8th, 2005, 02:09 PM

There's one thing I know...and I know that at least one or more of the wolves are not newbs. These wolves are pretty intelligent, and I doubt that the moves that are being made are coming from two newbs. There's one person i'm suspicious of more than anyone after reading his previous posts, and that's Cypher.

I think Cypher immediately putting a vote on Afro(even though i'm a little suspicious of Afro myself) was pretty strange to do. What evidence did he have? Then Cypher comes back and ends up saying

Just in case something else prevent me from getting to the computer for a long period of time. It's happened before, and I don't want it to happen again.

this doesn't seem like a reasonable explaination for Cypher to vote for Afro. Cypher really seems to be doing what Afro said he was:

Well, Cypher, you're now at the top of my list. Your jumping on me like this is exactly what a wolf would do. Alain voices an opinion that I may be a wolf, so a real wolf thinks "hmm... I can probably quickly throw a vote on them and I won't garner any suspicion."

That vote was a little TOO quick...he didn't even give his reasoning for going after Afro...maybe because he hasn't been active over the past three days? Seriously...if you're going to play this game then you should make sure that you are able to get computer access....or were you just pretending you couldn't get computer access? I'm not changing my vote right now, because I don't think i've seen enough from either Afro or Cypher to make a conclusion on who's who, and I also haven't talked to anyone else about them, but I want to avoid the non-active list and just say what i'm thinking at the moment.

By the way...I was kind of expecting to see more posting from whorli. Where are her theories now?

eyespewgreekfire

February 8th, 2005, 02:33 PM

Because so much has been presented against afro, he gets my vote. He is so completely sure of himself. Also, because everyone knows eb was a wolf, his eb or jurs thing seems to be subtle misinformation. He also was very close with eb early in the game, which makes me a bit more suspicious of him as well. Sorry afro, there is little or nothing against anyone else.

mead1

February 8th, 2005, 03:04 PM

@Alain: I haven't posted due to my not having anything to say, or to really contemplate as wolf-evidence, and as far as things go, I don't particularly see a need to contact anyone via AIM.

Anyone know when this voting period ends? I should probably start getting my thoughts together...

Afrobean

February 8th, 2005, 03:16 PM

Actually, I wasn't too close with eb this game. We usually talk more, but this game, we talked less.

@what Alain said: early in the game, eb was going after one of the newbs. I don't recall which one it was, but I remember he seemed sure that that one newb was a wolf and that the other one was not. Alain may be on to something with the voting the newb thing, because ever since day 1 I had a feeling that one of the newbs was a wolf. All I had was a feeling, but in using eb's prior voting habits, I feel we can peg the wolf, if it is, in fact, a newb wolf as Alain has said.

Afrobean

February 8th, 2005, 03:24 PM

mead keeps advocating this reverse reverse psychology junk. I'm tempted to vote Matthew, but his PM business may be due to a special role, and I'd rather not risk killing a special person. Also, don't take this vote too seriously. It's mostly just that I don't know when the day ends and I don't want any phantoms ;D
He voted mead on day 1. Matt voted eb day 1. My brain isn't working at maximum capacity right now. Maybe one of you can analyze what this means...

mead1

February 8th, 2005, 03:41 PM

@Afro: My thoughts (Justifying Matt's vote if he is a wolf): If Matt voted eb on Day 1 for some inane, unrealistic reason, this would not be followed by the more experienced and smarter players. This would put eb in no danger, yet sever ties between eb and Matt, and that would work well for the wolves indeed.

In defense of myself, eb voting for me might be taken seriously by the vets, and I might be ownz0r'D, so that really isn't something a good wolf would do.

So, I ask once more, when does the voting end?

blahblah18

February 8th, 2005, 03:51 PM

read my post where I said when voting ends... *sigh*

blahblah18

February 8th, 2005, 03:52 PM

TOMORROW 8 PM EST

GuidoHunter

February 8th, 2005, 04:52 PM

Okay, I just went back and read through the entire thread, taking notes. Know who came up most suspicious? That's right, Afrobean!

Starting with Day 1, Afro is the first to come out and say that the idea of Double Reverse Psychology would be perfect and that we should consider it. He then random votes whorli, but later changes his vote to Jursey. Know who else voted for Jursey? That's right, EB and Tps, both suspected and likely wolves.

Day 2: Afro admonishes EB for some bad logic. A clever ploy to put distance in between them, but Afro's still not suspicious of him. Then, he puts a stop to analysis of why ap was chosen to be wolfed and goes back to Jursey. Who else voted Jurs that day? Yep, EB did. On top of that, he reveals that he thinks alain's the devil, most likely to get people to keep an eye on him. What proof or evidence for suspicion does he give? None.

Day 3: Well, now EB's dead, so what does Afro say? "I had a gut feeling about EB." He's just looking to put some more distance in between them, now. Then, he goes and bandwagons onto Kilga.

And today, he's jumped the Jursey train since it's about to run off a cliff and tried to get people to look at the newbs. But what have the newbs done?

Well...

Matt made the first vote of the game for EB on Day 1 and suspected an Afro-EB-Cypher alliance, then voted for him again on Day 2. Then, he kind of vanished.

mead believed EB to be human on Day 1, but spoke out against Afro's Double Reverse Psychology claim and then voted for Tps. However, he then became largely suspicious of Jursey on into Day 3 (voted for her Day 2) and bandwagoned onto Kilga.

Then there's Cypher (new category; he's not a newb). He wasn't very vocal for the first part of the game, but has been much more so recently. He agreed with Afro on Day 1, but has been voting him lately. Not much more has gone on with him.

Those were my main suspicions, but I feel Afro really stands out. Therefore, my vote lays on him.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com