jTWG XXIV: iTWG

[flawofhumanity]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

I'm by no means going for an insta-lynch, as that is almost NEVER a good thing for the humans. We want to take our time during the day, and figure out as much as we possibly can. I simply posted this while it was still fresh on my mind, and I had a clear idea of what I wanted to post and prove.

Now, onto some other points. I probably shouldn't have came out with Fiction being the seer, because that DOES confirm to the wolves that they have killed him. Now, let's look at some stats BEFORE blaming everything solely on Farka here, even though I am convinced beyond a doubt that he is, in fact, a wolf.

So, math first! There is a 1/16 chance that they shamaned the seer first, assuming everything is completely random (which it isn't.) Say they didn't get him on night 1, and night 2, while they got no wolf, the shaman did send in a PM. At this time, he had a 1/15 chance of getting the seer assuming that no blue was shamaned the first time. Who the shaman seered on night 3 doesn't matter, as that couldn't possibly relate to fiction's untimely death.

Night 1 chance of shamaning Fiction - 6%
Night 2 chance of shamaning Fiction - 7%

The odds aren't good for the wolves. Now, assuming they DID shaman fiction they have only a 25% chance of actually getting the seer. So, once again assuming that they were shamaning completely random people, they had a 7% chance at MOST of seering fiction, and even then only had a 25% chance of him being the seer in question.

Now of course, we know it wasn't random. Let's look at the possible things that Fiction did within the thread that would make him a shamaning worthy target (going backwards chronologically.):

It does make sense, though.



I highly doubt that flaw trusts anyone completely, especially the seer (if he's not imaginary). I also doubt that everyone trusts flaw completely.

The gameplay as a whole goes bothways; but now is the time to discuss what you were attempting to do based on all the roles you may have.

1. Kentball as a wolf: This means Flaw and the seer are real. Kentball is attmepting to move suspicion away from anyone flaw may target as a wolf (himself included for X or Y reason; I don't know).

2. Kentball as a seer: This would mean that either Flaw and the seer are both not real, or at the very least, that only the seer isn't real. In this case, the situation may vary into both very different directions.

3. Kentball as a mason: This would mean that Flaw is not a mason as they wouldn't be openly fighting or having any suspicions against each other. This would be pointless if so. The seer is either stupid or fake. Kentball is trying to get Flaw killed for faking a mason, thus he's a wolf.

4. Kentball as a green: He's just really confused. His allegations are to be read as literally as possible. This, however, may result in his lynching and that's not good for the humans.

In the event of him being a MW, it would most likely be a combination of possibilities 1 and 4. He just wants enough trust in order to get in touch, or kill him off completely since he's a mason, thus all connections between the seer and the mason are lost.

It's either the first or the fourth possibilities.

There is a possibility that Kent is, in fact, a wolf. I would have to say, that more than likely, however, this would not be a reason to wolf Fiction without a shaman. It's just a list of suspicions for one person, and not a very important one at that.

in both the wolfing and lynching the wolves will attempt to kill a human or blue. They know who the wolves are, so that's plain obvious.

Thing is, why would they waste a definite human kill at night (wolfing) to try to the same through a lynch with a chance of no success?

I don't follow that logic.

I do not know what direction this should take.

It is very likely that the wolves did not vote because they were unable to, as it is likely for them to have decided to not kill for some reason.

Comet, please explain why the wolves would decide to not kill a player? All kills are beneficial, even if the killed player is not a blue player. You suggested it, please delve deeper into this possibility.

Also, everyone should note who is suggesting what and at what point in the game. Even though there is no lead, grouping will still occur.

Again, not likely to cause enough stress to the wolves to wolf him randomly, in my opinion. All that's happening here is Fiction pointing out the obvious, that it makes no sense for wolves to skip out on a kill, for any reason at all. It seems that the possibility of a random wolfing is becoming extremely low.

agreed.

The seer must have had a reason for him coming out to flaw.

Chances are he's not the shaman because of the 25% or 33.33333-% (if pnt was a mason) chance of hitting a seer. Plus, the masons would never reveal the names to the seer even if he is real. If a shaman gets news of someone being a blue player, that player would die by a wolfing that night. It's easier, safer, and they avoid unnecessary troubles with people. Why establish a relationship with a person they're going to kill anyway, if they're not going to get anything out of it?

Now, here is where it gets interesting. This quote, among a great many others of his posts relate to how he feels the seer should handle different possibilities and establishing a basis of trust between the greens and the seer/mason representative. It's possible that this shattered the plans of the wolves, and in retaliation to it they shamaned him, or even planned to wolf him, but simply were unable to for some odd reason.

I still don't feel that these or any of his other quotes were alarming enough for a wolf to choose to wolf him without a shamaning, and I certainly don't think any of his posts lead to making him "shaman" material. If I was a wolf, his constant banter about what the seer should/might do might make me stop and wonder, but ultimately, I think there would be better choices for the wolves to shaman.

So, assuming that the wolves weren't randomly picking targets, and that they didn't wolf or shaman him for anything said in the thread, that leaves two possibilities; Something that no one knows about was said in a private instant message, or Farka is a wolf an figured out that Fiction was the seer. I don't know about you guys, but the latter seems much more "possible" for me.

Now that we're clear on why I think Farka is the only one other than the masons that could possibly know Fiction was the seer, let's continue onwards and look at other possible wolfy tactics or remarks that he posted:

I provided no theory. I never said "The wolves never wolfed last night because they didn't." I don't see where pondering this will help us. I was active that night. I just wasn't posting in this thread will pointless crap. I was on aim until the night was over, then went to sleep.

This could easily be taken as wolfy, simply because it's quite possible that finding out which wolves weren't available/who was inactive during that night could DEFINITELY give the humans some leads, and there is no point to NOT 'pondering' about it, especially when we have no other leads. Also, this hints at his undying paranoia about how active he was on the night the wolves "decided" to not wolf anyone. I feel that if Farka IS a wolf, he's not the leader, therefore while his activity is important, it isn't the boldest of evidence, nor the most reliable, in my opinion. I messaged Farka MORE than once, and received not the slightest inkling of a response on that night, but that could easily have been because he doesn't like me or something, but that is something to figure out on a later date.

After Fiction had described to me about how flaw could be the MW, it'd be smart to say that the seer should not form an alliance with him if he's seered green. This point in made obvious by thunder in his post. The seer should remain cautious with flaw if he's seered green.

Realize that I wrote that post BEFORE the possibility of flaw being the MW occured.

This is also something along the lines of what I would consider a wolfy post, in that at this point he has known for a LONG time that I have claimed to be a mason, and at some point before or after this he even suggests that I SHOULD NOT be seered, knowing that seering me would come up with a wolf if I was green or red, and if blue, like I claimed, would start an instant alliance with no need for an unsure human middleman. Fiction threw out the theory, however, to distance his self from me, seeing as he was the seer, and wanted to keep only two people knowing that (me and Farka.)


To summarize; the chances of fiction being randomly wolfed (without being shamaned) are low because of the confirmed blue right in the middle of all this, and the chances of him being shamaned are just as low, considering he has only led indirectly throughout the game, leaving no procured evidence, or any at all for that matter within the forums. There's a 100% chance Farka has the intelligence and means to find out Fiction was the seer, and that's what seems most likely to me. The only other reasonable possibility is that Fiction said something in a private instant message to a wolf that was strong enough to bring about a random wolfing over a confirmed blue that was the only link between the seers and masons, or something on night 1 or 2 made him worth shamaning over ANYBODY else, which I don't believe Fiction is stupid enough to let occur.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

Flaw, your evidence made me go back and do some more digging so check this out.

My post looked like a bandwagon, but thunder simply ninja'd me. The link to Farka is a stretch, but if Flaw was indeed a MW, I would find that more than likely. I would suggest, in my opinion, that the seer [assuming he is alive] seer farka. If he turns out to be red, then we have one wolf and almost certainly the master wolf, Flaw.

All placing bets that farka is the MW say I? I. If demon was indeed a wolf, I'm betting that the last wolf is either DDR or Thunder. If demon was not a wolf, one of the last two wolves is between DDR or Thunder. With all the evidence we have from Flaw, Farka is basically in red status, The above quote pretty much IMO is another wolf trying to get the MW seered as quickly as possible so the MW can get into the alliance to find blues. I can tell from some of the previous posts that thunder and DDR were talking about the situation beforehand. I can't tell though if DDR posted his own thoughts, or if thunder convinced him that would be the best course of action.

I'll give Farka a chance to explain himself, but I do see the evidence building up to the point of being overwhelming against him. (Also, I was onto him before fiction died TYVM).

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

Double post here for some more red flags (as if there wasn't enough)

Manti this is a JTWG GAME. Not TGB. Cut it out.


Also, Yess, I'm alive. I have no idea where you thought I'd be dead.

And considering that three inactive people are wolves is the dumbest **** in the world and it makes me not even want to play this game.

Stop caring why there was no wolfing. IT ISN'T GOING TO HELP US CATCH THEM.

I provided no theory. I never said "The wolves never wolfed last night because they didn't." I don't see where pondering this will help us. I was active that night. I just wasn't posting in this thread will pointless crap. I was on aim until the night was over, then went to sleep.

From my activity list a while back.

Farka - Last Activity: Yesterday 11:57 PM

DBP’s post: Yesterday 11:55

Possibly Farka was trying to send in a PM just before the end of the night and simply missed the deadline by two minutes. I wouldn't use this as evidence in and of itself, but with his constant "Stop worrying about the no wolfing" I have to believe something was posted to worry him. I think that activity sheet right there was it.

[kentbball]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

Flaw, it was a 33.3% chance of fiction being seer if the wolves shamaned him blue, not 25%. With you coming out as mason it left only 3 blues left to be possible seers.


Also:

*Sigh* Manti, I flamed you because you didn't even check your theory right. I did post in the thread during the night as well as being on aim the whole night. Is it so odd that two people are sharing the same view? I've hardly talked to DotC. You've yet to prove anything, only throwing small chance theories out there hoping for people to bandwagon your theory.

You think I would have voted you? Probably. You're trying to pin non-factual "evidence" on me. Not only that, you've been doing this sort of thing all game. Until you can actually prove something, Manti, I'm placing my vote on you because you're aiming for my death, and you've yet to have an actual discussion with me on aim.

(Also, I was onto him before fiction died TYVM).

Manti was onto farka before fiction died, so Farka tried to vote him out. Farka also refused to vote demon and demon defended farka. In farka's post he distanced himself from DotC as well with the statement "I've hardly talked to DotC." If DotC was indeed a wolf, Farka would most certainly be a wolf.

Wow Manti good job at proving how much of a dumbass you are. My post meant that it obviously meant something. Me saying "Ever thought they meant not to wolf anyone" means that there was a reason behind it. Everyone was active during the night, which rules out inactivity, so doesn't that mean there was a reason for not wolfing?

If you didn't have selective amnesia, you'd also see i posted my reasoning behind it a few pages back. Not to mention i changed my vote off of you.

One more thing, nice job taking a voting chart from day 1 when pretty much everyone was bandwagonning you and trying to turn it against me. Fail some more plz.

Just Demon flaming manti for being suspicious of farka.

I'm not voting Farka right now because I've learned how insta's are not good but he certainly will be my vote later on if nothing turns up.

[flawofhumanity]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

Kent is right, and there is actually a 33% chance of him being the seer if shamaned, it was like 3 or 4 AM when I wrote that, so give me a break =P. Even with that, the chances of HIM being seered randomly is still only 7%.

Manti, thanks for bringing up even more evidence, especially the DDR quote. It's extremely alarming, considering that Farka KNEW I was a wolf if I came up green or red, and KNEW that I would come up blue, or so I would claim, so DDR asking for a seer change based solely on FARKAS evidence could be the result of trying to get a MW into the alliance with the seer BEFORE me. This is DEFINITELY something to look into.

Now, kent, while you have a good relationship web going on between farka and DoTC, it's still possible that DoTC isn't a wolf, therefore all evidence on that side of the fence should be taken very lightly.

[T3hDDRKid]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

Manti, thanks for bringing up even more evidence, especially the DDR quote. It's extremely alarming, considering that Farka KNEW I was a wolf if I came up green or red, and KNEW that I would come up blue, or so I would claim, so DDR asking for a seer change based solely on FARKAS evidence could be the result of trying to get a MW into the alliance with the seer BEFORE me. This is DEFINITELY something to look into.

I requested that Farka be seered because you were being suspected of being a MW and Farka was requesting that you be seered. [The information of you possibly being MW came up after Farka had already requested you be seered.] Obviously, if you were MW, you would want to be seered so that the seer would waste a night and possibly contact you, which leads me to this quote:

So the Seer should seer flaw. Then follow the steps of what Fiction posted. If Flaw is a blue, then form the alliance. I think the same should be done if he's a green to.

Why would he request that a person be entered into an alliance after being seered green? Alone, this is risky, but an innocent suggestion - after the accusation of you being a MW, it seemed alarming. Thus, I asked for Farka to be seered instead of you, which I believed at the time may have prevented seering a MW green and instead seering a wolf red.


Also, I currently believe Farka is a wolf, as well. However, as Nija said, insta is usually a bad idea, as it gives us less time to talk to people and, as evidenced in my first game, rushes the wolves to victory. We should give him a chance to explain himself, but the evidence seems clear.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

Farka Is a wolf. Let me explain here. As part of my plan that I posted, I told Farka first, and then FARKA told fiction, and later as the seer came out it came to the point where I had to post that I came out to a mason and THAT'S why the seer came to me. Well, if Farka here is smart enough to put two and two together, that would mean he knew Fiction was the seer.

Fiction warned me that if he died farka is likely to be a wolf, and it seems that this is coming together now. Without a seer, this game will be ultimately harder, but we will indeed see VERY soon whether or not we still have a chance.

Flaw could you reproduce a timeline of events chain from when you told farka about being a mason to when fiction contacted you? If it ties in with the whole "Don't seer flaw he could be the MW" rumour, we can be pretty sure to have a wolf nailed completley down to the floor.

[flawofhumanity]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

Yes, I can definitely do that.


To Farka (day 1, day before lynch):


RedRumForTheRich (11:42:40 PM): Well how about this, I'm a mason.




From Farka to FJ:

Nakah92: one sec
FikshonJunkshon: uh sure.
Nakah92 wants to send file C:\Documents and Settings\Edward N. Staples\My Documents\download\fikshonjunkshon\JTWGXXIV Flaw Claims To Be Mason.htm.

Notice no timestamps, which means we can't put an exact time of this. I, however, can put an average time using my timestamps and FJ's reaction.





This is when I came out in chat: (This is day 1, day of lynch.)


RedRumForTheRich (9:13:54 PM): Guys.
RedRumForTheRich (9:13:58 PM): Someone just came to me
RedRumForTheRich (9:13:59 PM): as a seer

I don't have the exact time because I deleted it out of my logs with him, as I figured I would eventually send fiction logs to someone (aka, my fault).



I have more to put in between those three occurrences, but I need to think about the connections before throwing it out here, and that's what you need to do what you asked anyways, manti.

[flawofhumanity]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

PS. All times on timestamps are CST.

[Farka]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

Alright, all of your theories on why I'm a wolf, MW, ect... are based off of what other people said about me. DDR's post seems very wolfy to me because he is enforcing that the seer should seer me. I posted that the seer should form an alliance with a green or blue if they're seered. I then corrected it a few posts down saying that coming out to a green was a bad idea because of the MW. DDR, I feel, is trying to set me up because he wanted it to look like I was the master wolf by insisting that I should be seered.

Flaw, one thing you did that was a VERY bad idea is saying that the seer is dead. Now the wolves know that the seer is dead and now whoever is shamaned blue is obviously a Mason. Saying the name of the seer was a bad idea as well. There were 3 other blues that could have been shamaned and could have been thought of as the Seer, possibly 4 if they thought of considering Flaw the Seer, and the wolves would not of been able to tell who the seer was if you hadn't said the name of the Seer. So good job putting the Masons in danger.

Another thing, bandwagonning my votes will faintly show who the wolves are and who the Masons are.

Now about my "ignorance" about not knowing he was the Seer. Why would I do any of the things that you explained? I wasn't looking for the Seer. If I had found the Seer, how would I be able to convince the Seer that I was human? Saying "Seer me." would make me look like a MW trying to form an alliance. I was too concerned with figuring out if you were a mason so that I could trust you. Point being, I overlooked the situation had I had no interest in finding the Seer since finding him would be a waste of time. There's nothing more I can say about this because saying more will exceed the truth.

Possibly Farka was trying to send in a PM just before the end of the night and simply missed the deadline by two minutes. I wouldn't use this as evidence in and of itself, but with his constant "Stop worrying about the no wolfing" I have to believe something was posted to worry him. I think that activity sheet right there was it.

Or you know, I was viewing the thread reading the story to see who died....>_>

I also said to stop pondering why there was no kill wouldn't help us because in the end, it wouldn't get us any closer to catching the wolves.

So basically, anyone who has defended me or made any link to me after flaw revealed he was a Mason and that the Seer revealed himself to Flaw, is a wolf(i.e. DDR and Thunder). That is what you're saying. I don't know what the Hell was up with DotC, but I figured a wolf wouldn't even try this because it would probably end up with votes against him. So I figured DotC was a human who didn't give a damn about the game so he was screwing around and saying "**** this, lynch me." That's why I didn't vote him.

Manti, I told you your theory was wrong with my inactivity. I posted during that Night and was on aim all night as well. I didn't see your post as a threat, I saw it as a retarded mistake, which is why I reacted so violently. I placed my vote on you because I thought you were trying to set me up as I think DDR and the rest of the wolves are doing.

Alright, Flaw, you were never actually Seer'd to my knowledge. At least I didn't see a post where you said you were Seer'd. If somewhere there is a post saying this, then correct me, but until then, you could still be a wolf. I'm not trying to turn anyone against you, I'm stating the reason that you could be setting up everyone, even Fiction. I'm not too strong on this theory though, so don't make a big deal out of it.

Although I still think the wolves are behind all of this, swaying suspicions on people. This is bad because it's giving them the sense of control. Especially now that they know Fiction was the Seer and that the rest of the blues are obviously Masons. So like I said, be aware who is bandwagonning my votes. It may very well show who the Masons and Wolves are. I realize you guys are probably one-viewed on this situation and are going to lynch me regardless, but there is still a chance to win this, even without the seer. My death, in the likely event that it occurs because of a lynch, may be a key to winning this game.

This is all I can say without anymore input. I'll have more later.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

Farka, If you are refering to post number 201 & 202 you are mistaken. Those were not night posts. In fact, dbp's offical post ending the day was post number 210 or something. So no, you did not night post. Stop acting like you did.

Read my posts less Farka?

[Farka]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

Oh, I misunderstood it and you know that. That doesn't imply that I'm a wolf by any means(saying that I did post during the night when it was actually during the day). It makes more sense that I read DBP's post at 11:57 to see who died rather than I tried to last second PM him. Are you going to call anyone who was actively viewing the thread within a 5-10 minutes time span a wolf who logged in real quick to PM? Or is it just me because of these events.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

List Of Suspicions

1. Farka

It is likely that Farka, is in my eyes, is the master wolf. The reasoning behind this will become apparent throughout this post, as the nature of it all leads to him being a wolf, and all information not posing him as a wolf is based off the fact that he is, indeed, a wolf.

One huge factor in Farka's wolfness is what Flaw has been posting ever since day 3 started. His undeniable relationship with Fiction, our seer. To add onto this, Farka was the second person Flaw told about him being a mason, the first being pnt who died an hour later. The plan between the masons seems to be to come out to one person, and use it as a semi-seering. If Flaw didn't die, they were likely to be human, although nothing is sure. If Flaw did die, however, it would nail them as a likely wolf, assuming I did nothing else throughout the day to warrant a shamaning. Anyways, as Flaw told him at 12:42 EST, He told him this in confidence, and specifically asked him to not tell anyone else about it. The next day, March 4th, however, he told Fiction that Flaw was a mason on the grounds he wanted to see if I was lying or something of that nature. Well, to me, it looks like he was doing it to take the possible blame of Flaw's death off him, though this doesn't make sense because he never killed me, perhaps because soon he was to find out that Fiction was the seer?

The next thing in a wolfy manner is Farka's lies. Flaw has told me that he caught farka lying on more than one occasion, the biggest however, was towards FICTION, possibly an endeavor to make Flaw come out with fiction publicly, and get him lynched? Anyways, now you know the basis of this lie, and how it could have affected the game, If Flaw had not ignored it and neglected to mention it at the time. Let's get on to the actual lie. Here's a timeline of Flaw, FJ, and Farka discussing the conversation; (got this from flaw earlier today when I asked for a timeline).

RedRumForTheRich (10:49:02 PM): I tell pnt.
RedRumForTheRich (10:49:04 PM): Pnt dies.
RedRumForTheRich (10:49:07 PM): I tell farka.
RedRumForTheRich (10:49:27 PM): I tell fiction about my concerns about pnt.
RedRumForTheRich (10:49:39 PM): I mention my concerns about pnt lightly to farka.
RedRumForTheRich (10:49:58 PM): I then attempt to go in depth with my concerns with manti, who then freaks out with suspicion.
RedRumForTheRich (10:50:12 PM): I give him a portion of the conversation.
RedRumForTheRich (10:50:19 PM): This portion floats around to farka.
RedRumForTheRich (10:50:52 PM): Fiction then tells me something he shouldn't know.
RedRumForTheRich (10:50:56 PM): I confront him about it.
RedRumForTheRich (10:51:07 PM): Several minutes later
RedRumForTheRich (10:51:18 PM): Farka confirms that Fiction knows this through manti, which fiction just denied.
RedRumForTheRich (10:51:31 PM): Farka can't produce logs, Fiction does, and he implies it nowhere.
RedRumForTheRich (10:51:46 PM): Manti signs off.
RedRumForTheRich (10:52:46 PM): Farka then claims that he misquoted, and that manti says he told him about it happening, but still can't produce logs.
RedRumForTheRich (10:52:51 PM): Fiction then admits to his lie.
RedRumForTheRich (10:52:56 PM): And this chat starts.

NOTE: There was talking in between the time line, but I cut it out for clarity, including Farka claiming that he misquoted and that's why the lie took place, but I don't really believe that.

/end message I got from Flaw.

Now, another small thing that Farka made a huge ordeal out of is the fact of his lack of being on during the night. Flaw stated this in the thread, and also to me on Aim when I asked for the timeline. Farka failed to respond to him EVERY TIME he (Flaw) messaged him during the night pretty much, though he was in chats scarcely, it was when most people weren't online, perhaps his wolf friends weren't around? Anyways, when accused of being inactive, along with SIX other people, he threw a **** fit, flaming Me, and making the outrageous claim that it didn't matter at all that there was no wolf kill, and that it shouldn't even be considered as a possible lead, which is complete bull****.

2. Thunder

Thunder is my second suspect for a wolf, mainly because of his relations with Farka, which means if Farka isn't a wolf, my points on thunder are moot, although I'm fairly sure that Farka is a wolf.

DO NOT SEER FLAW.

I think everyone should take into consideration what I am about to post about.

I think that Flaw is a possible MW and Farka would therefore be a wolf assisting in the infiltration of any human alliance.

Lets begin.

First off, I would like to lay out the general idea here.

I think that Flaw is the MW, and Farka and possibly Manti are both wolves as well. If this proves correct, Farka would be assisting Flaw into getting into the human alliance.



this is the really important part to read.

In the little bit of the log there, pnt expresses knowledge of flaw's role. Flaw, in my mind, then answers in a ****y way, which would indicate to me that he thinks that he could not know his role. If he was a MW, YOU WOULD NOT FIGURE THIS OUT THROUGH A SEERING!

Then Farka goes on to suggest a seering, as if to say he thinks he is a possible blue.

But read carefully.



If you were thinking he was a blue farka, why bother mentioning if he was a green? Your theory was based around Flaw being in a possible role of some importance, why even address this theory?



I have also heard that Flaw has expressed to a number of you that he wants to be seered. IF HE HAS ASKED TO BE SEERED IN YOUR PRESENCE, PLEASE CONSIDER THE MOTIVATION BEHIND IT!

Any normal green would not be so persistent in being seered. They wouldnt care either way.

Please take this into consideration.

With this being said, my vote is for Flaw.

This is interesting, mainly because he blames Farka, but not to the extent of making it it's focus, and only a side note. This is likely to be because it's only to distance themselves, and not as an actual accusation, even though he does say it's likely farka is a wolf. Now, at this point his WHOLE theory on this post is flawed and obviously quickly put together. He states that I would be the MW because that's the only role that could not be done through a seering, but the conversation came BEFORE NIGHT 1 WAS OVER, and seers don't get their message until the day begins. Also, the only people Flaw EVER requested a seering from personally were in front of Farka and FJ, in a private chat. (again info given to me while asking for the timeline). So, the only way he could know that Flaw requested a seering is through the wolf grapevine. Also, this is another example of the wolves steering away from seering Flaw because they know he's a mason.

Notice then, how as soon as Flaw notes that the seer came out to him, his mind changes very quickly, Farka then agreeing with Flaw. This is to throw most, or all suspicion off of himself.

This the leads me to my third suspect.

3. T3hDDRKid

After thunder posts his argument making Flaw look like a MW, DDR immediatley agrees with Thunder. A human DDR would think more before accusing somone of being a wolf. Especially a MW. Either thunder went looking for a supporter for his idea very fast, or already had one

If what Fiction has told me is true, this is certainly most important - not releasing these documents could possibly mean that flaw is wolf [I've been told MW, even.]

But why would pnt be stupid enough to go "HEY, I'M THE SEER! KILL ME!"? Forgery, possibly? That would be very much against Flaw. But why would he forge a convo possibly incriminating himself? There are holes in my thinking, and posting this convo could help fill them in. Until that time, I am changing my prior safety vote from yess to Flaw.

Don't forget the bandwagon vote on flaw here as thunder voted for flaw just 2 posts prior to that. At this point Yessss changes his saftey vote from thunder to me to prevent bandwagoning. Flaw then also votes for me because I spread around that useless convo with Paint.

At this point two more votes pop out of nowhere.

Im changing my vote to Manticore. Flaw, right now, is able to prove to me that he is human. Manti was already one of my suspicions. As for the seering, if flaw came green, he should be trusted with caution.

(not to mention he knew flaw was a mason at this point.)
and then this shows up like 3 minutes later.

Hate to be all bandwagoning and such, but changing from Flaw to Manticore. Flaw has convinced me he is human by now, plus he just gave up that log - Manticore seems the most likely person to be wolf to me.

Then in the night posts of day 1 DDR basically claims that the seer-mason strat Flaw had with ficton wasnt legit, and the more important thing is he refuses to look at the other side.

I agree with Nija on this; I decide not to vote Flaw, change it to Mant, take a shower and sleep, suddenly Maik is jumped on a sketchy seer call overly late in the day.



But the seer could not have seered a human, then a red by this point - he's only had one crack at seering, and wouldn't have the ability to trust anybody with a red seering at this point.

[I'm pretty sure this is safe?] Flaw, could you tell me, did the seer come to you personally or was it a "I heard from somebody that the seer told him he was red" deal? It seems to me that a shaman may be playing you.

In addition to that, why would a seer check Maik? I would check somebody like Nija, pnt, Mamimi, one of the vets.. Not a first-timer. Unless the seer is very stupid and came out blindly after checking a noob who was red, I call that BS is going on here.

The last line of that is important because it attempts to break up the seer mason relationship, and you have this 2 posts later:

Just a thought, but perhaps a wolf faked seer to Flaw to protect Mant, a fellow wolf. I'm keeping this in mind.

Once again trying to incriminate me, as I look bad already.

There you go, I think thats the group to look at corralled into one nice longass post.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

Missed a BB tag, so I edited. Sue me

[Farka]

Re: jTWG XXIV: iTWG

List Of Suspicions

1. Farka

It is likely that Farka, is in my eyes, is the master wolf. The reasoning behind this will become apparent throughout this post, as the nature of it all leads to him being a wolf, and all information not posing him as a wolf is based off the fact that he is, indeed, a wolf.

One huge factor in Farka's wolfness is what Flaw has been posting ever since day 3 started. His undeniable relationship with Fiction, our seer. To add onto this, Farka was the second person Flaw told about him being a mason, the first being pnt who died an hour later. The plan between the masons seems to be to come out to one person, and use it as a semi-seering. If Flaw didn't die, they were likely to be human, although nothing is sure. If Flaw did die, however, it would nail them as a likely wolf, assuming I did nothing else throughout the day to warrant a shamaning. Anyways, as Flaw told him at 12:42 EST, He told him this in confidence, and specifically asked him to not tell anyone else about it. The next day, March 4th, however, he told Fiction that Flaw was a mason on the grounds he wanted to see if I was lying or something of that nature. Well, to me, it looks like he was doing it to take the possible blame of Flaw's death off him, though this doesn't make sense because he never killed me, perhaps because soon he was to find out that Fiction was the seer?

The next thing in a wolfy manner is Farka's lies. Flaw has told me that he caught farka lying on more than one occasion, the biggest however, was towards FICTION, possibly an endeavor to make Flaw come out with fiction publicly, and get him lynched? Anyways, now you know the basis of this lie, and how it could have affected the game, If Flaw had not ignored it and neglected to mention it at the time. Let's get on to the actual lie. Here's a timeline of Flaw, FJ, and Farka discussing the conversation; (got this from flaw earlier today when I asked for a timeline).

RedRumForTheRich (10:49:02 PM): I tell pnt.
RedRumForTheRich (10:49:04 PM): Pnt dies.
RedRumForTheRich (10:49:07 PM): I tell farka.
RedRumForTheRich (10:49:27 PM): I tell fiction about my concerns about pnt.
RedRumForTheRich (10:49:39 PM): I mention my concerns about pnt lightly to farka.
RedRumForTheRich (10:49:58 PM): I then attempt to go in depth with my concerns with manti, who then freaks out with suspicion.
RedRumForTheRich (10:50:12 PM): I give him a portion of the conversation.
RedRumForTheRich (10:50:19 PM): This portion floats around to farka.
RedRumForTheRich (10:50:52 PM): Fiction then tells me something he shouldn't know.
RedRumForTheRich (10:50:56 PM): I confront him about it.
RedRumForTheRich (10:51:07 PM): Several minutes later
RedRumForTheRich (10:51:18 PM): Farka confirms that Fiction knows this through manti, which fiction just denied.
RedRumForTheRich (10:51:31 PM): Farka can't produce logs, Fiction does, and he implies it nowhere.
RedRumForTheRich (10:51:46 PM): Manti signs off.
RedRumForTheRich (10:52:46 PM): Farka then claims that he misquoted, and that manti says he told him about it happening, but still can't produce logs.
RedRumForTheRich (10:52:51 PM): Fiction then admits to his lie.
RedRumForTheRich (10:52:56 PM): And this chat starts.

NOTE: There was talking in between the time line, but I cut it out for clarity, including Farka claiming that he misquoted and that's why the lie took place, but I don't really believe that.

/end message I got from Flaw.

Now, another small thing that Farka made a huge ordeal out of is the fact of his lack of being on during the night. Flaw stated this in the thread, and also to me on Aim when I asked for the timeline. Farka failed to respond to him EVERY TIME he (Flaw) messaged him during the night pretty much, though he was in chats scarcely, it was when most people weren't online, perhaps his wolf friends weren't around? Anyways, when accused of being inactive, along with SIX other people, he threw a **** fit, flaming Me, and making the outrageous claim that it didn't matter at all that there was no wolf kill, and that it shouldn't even be considered as a possible lead, which is complete bull****.

We clarified all of that in the chat. Fiction, Flaw, and I. Due to switching back an forth from my dad's computer and my laptop, I closed out of the conversations every time I switched. So therefore, I had nothing to refer back to when I misquoted.

I already explained why I flipped out on you. The idea of being a wolf because I was inactive is ridiculous. I don't recall Flaw messaging me once. And if he did, I probably ignored it because I didn't care.