Ingame Song Information

[krunkykai22]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Kayla - You're right and you basically agreed with what I said. Crimson Crescent shouldnt be rated what it is then. Just because of the middle jumpjack second then doesn't make it a high difficulty song then right? Basically that should have been rated a 9 in FFR Scale.

[justin_ator]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Just remove it >.> I'm sick of all the debates over that one song lolol. Why don't we just melt down and take out the hard parts like we did when we ruined pain night grand tin?

[krunkykai22]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Lol remove it. That wouldn't be the modest thing to do now would it? :P

Just end the debate with a vote lol how about that? Take a community vote 11/12 and there you go.

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Information

And I'm sorry but I don't believe a 5 second difficulty spike means that a file should go up in difficulty.

So Crowdpleaser is a 10? (IMO difficulty spikes are very important, even more so in a combo scoring game like this one if they are hard to combo. TTE's definitely qualify, especially if we include the weird burstglut before the second roll.)

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Ingame Song Information

let's just ditch the rating system altogether.

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I still think some sort of score-based algorithm should be implemented to auto-assign difficulties to files. It would end so many useless debates at the minor cost of slightly lowering the true difficulty of some files that have way more plays than others around the same difficulty level.

Something like averaging the top ten scores on a file and assigning this value a weight of 0.5. Then taking the 25th, 50th, 100th, and 200th scores and assigning each of these a weight of 0.125 (the weights and ranks used here are just for illustration purposes, they can be anything). The 'mean' score is then calculated and the file is assigned a number from 1-100 based on what this score is. Then all we need to do is determine which values should be grouped under which difficulty headings (i.e. 77-86 = auto-assigning the song to FMO, 57-66 = C, etc.)

However, since some files have a scoreboard of 200+ AAAs, perhaps this particular system should only be used for VCs and above. Files that already have 200+ AAAs could use a separate system where the 500th, 1,000th (perhaps even 5,000th and 10,000th?) scores are taken into consideration (slightly lowering the weighting applied for each successive rank since some scores will inevitably get pretty damn sloppy the further we go down). Again, just playing with rank values right now, they can be anything.

The only problem would be presented with some files, such as Reality, that were whored to absolute shit, which would probably assign these files with a value much lower than what it should be. However, with the passage of time (and players getting more scores on those other not-whored-so-much files), the affected difficulties would gradually work themselves towards a much more accurate rating.

/2cents

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Going by ranks themselves is bad because then it means the popularity of a song will directly affect its "difficulty". New songs, songs that are not fun to actually play, and songs that are hard to unlock (secret, purchased, token) will all be rated significantly higher than they should be.

I still like my old idea of comparing the community's scores on two songs to see which one people tend to score better on; too bad I don't have access to the full high score tables, so I wouldn't be able to do a mockup of the idea to show how it'd work in practice.

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Yeah, I took that into consideration as well.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should try to work towards creating some sort of script for FFR that'll take care of issue for us as accurately as possible instead of relying on public opinion. If your idea accomplishes this, hell, I'm game.

P.s. I think I have a pretty good understanding of what you want to do and I really like it

edit: I'm not entirely sure but I think we might run into problems with that idea unless we set a restriction to use only the most active members that have played almost every file in-game? Although we probably already have a pretty solid number of players who meet this criterion....I don't know, this might not even be a problem, you're probably thinking of formulating the script differently from what I'm envisioning

[iironiic]

Re: Ingame Song Information

@OWA: In order to do this, we would first need a list of about 3-5 files which portrays the difficulty of the song most accurately for each of the following difficulties: easy VCs, mid-VCs, harder VCs, easier FMOs, mid-FMOs, harder FMOs, easier FGOs, mid-FGOs, and harder FGOs. That way, we can have a basic idea of the potential difficulties of the other files. An ideal list is one that challenges a player in all patterns, ranging from jacks, to speed, to jumpstream, etc.

From there, we can derive a formula to determine an accurate rating of the difficulty of the file. Of course this formula won't be perfect, but it can be tweaked as more files appear on the engine.

Also, we would need to determine what makes a particular file harder than others. Is it necessarily AAA count? Is it the patterns shown in the file? We need to make this list so that we can consider everything in our proposed formula.

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we should try to work towards creating some sort of script for FFR that'll take care of issue for us as accurately as possible instead of relying on public opinion. If your idea accomplishes this, hell, I'm game.

Yeah, ideally my idea would be able to accomplish that, and we won't need subjective arguments or carefully constructed difficulty formulas, just enough people playing each song. I haven't tested it yet though, so I don't know what tweaks might have to be made to get it to work properly.

edit: I'm not entirely sure but I think we might run into problems with that idea unless we set a restriction to use only the most active members that have played almost every file in-game?

Hm, what makes you say that? It's an interesting idea but I'm not sure it will be necessary. My idea was to essentially use anyone who's done well enough on both songs (say, <50 boos on a full playthrough, or something like that) but it's entirely possible that we'd need to add in some extra constraints as well to get good numbers.

[hi19hi19]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Isn't {Red Alert} awfully difficult for an 8? That's some really fast streams with tough jump transitions... If people are voting to put Jurs' OP up to a 9 then {Red Alert} would certainly qualify too, no?

EDIT- the lower difficulties are rather out of whack as well. Compare Disconnected (a 3) with Computer Dreams (a 2), I think those difficulties should be swapped lol
Maybe -another- overhaul of the difficulty system is in order soon? >_<

[Darkbreezee]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Isn't {Red Alert} awfully difficult for an 8? That's some really fast streams with tough jump transitions... If people are voting to put Jurs' OP up to a 9 then {Red Alert} would certainly qualify too, no?
>_<

Cant agree here, guess Red Alert is a "true" lvl 8, if u take that song and compare it too all the other lvl 8's u will find out that Red Alert is a "mid" lvl 8, like "Solitude Sun" , and "Saikyou OX Keikaku" as well, they are pretty similar (especially if u take a look at the song's lengths).
Besides i think its an "individual" problem with those difficult ratings, since u got tons of persons that have no probs with thrills, but they do have probs with jumpstream, or vise versa (e.g. Max Forever), its a 8 as well., for me i'd say its a true lvl 9 since i suck in playing thrills, but a friend of mine would even say thats an easy lvl 8 ..., the difficult ratings are "okay" , if u want to get an exact difficult rating u have to increase the number of difficulties to make it more precisely (instead 1-13 , it could be something like 1-20).

EDIT:
btw: i am a huge fan of ur files, keep it up ;D (example " {Rose}", since i cant manage to AAA the mid part with those "2322322332" arrows, i'd even say its a easy 10, but then u have to ask again: "What indicator should u use to create a fair difficult rating?", maybe the amounts of numbers needed to play and AAA this song?, or maybe an overall rating that gives u a general Idea of "how easy or difficult it is to FC this song?")

[rayword45]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Lower rating asscrap. I remember back when 100 Bar Blackout was a HUGE argument.

Let Mom Sleep seems rather hard for a 6, IMO. Infection seems sorta easy as a high 5.

[Ashley Pearson]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Wow there is a lot more secret songs than I expected. Thats a lot of credits that need saving up!

[hi19hi19]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Wow there is a lot more secret songs than I expected. Thats a lot of credits that need saving up!

At a regular rate of playing it will take many months at the very least to get every purchased and secret song unlocked. Don't sweat it, the rewards come as you improve.

One way to get credits faster, though, is to play in custom tournaments. There's many other opportunities on the forums too- there's lots of credits to be had making people profile graphics or avatars, for example.