Ingame Song Information

[rushyrulz]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I will say that I agree with 4CT being more difficult than October. It's more technically difficult, plus it's much faster. October is just 32nd bursts over and over and over again and you get used to it.

[stavie33]

stavie, I disagree with the placement of one song on your list, therefore your entire list is completely ridiculous and I have no idea how someone could possibly make such a novice mistake.
/logic

I said I didn't disagree with the whole list, and I didn't know that they weren't ordered within their difficulties. If I had one problem with a placement, I'd say it and not care, but I found 10 that I had issues with, but not just issues, I felt they were extremely outlandish, as I said, I honestly saw pattern wise it's as if someone told me Power was a 4 or 5. And October could be harder than 4 Chord, I don't think it is pattern wise, I'm bad at both, but much better at 4 Chord, and regardless pattern wise, length, stamina, and accuracy I feel 4 Chord is just way harder. You have this chill 1:00 long intro to a 3 minute song, then you have two minutes of VC/low FMO stuff and at the last like, 40 seconds it gets really icky bursty out of nowhere, while 4 Chord from the start is high FMO, to low FMO, then a high mid-high FMO for a LONG time with some dense jumpstream with non-consistent patterns and 24th bursts and jack trills thrown in. October has 4 3 note 32nd bursts in a row at it's worst parts, and they can be delt with, 4 Chord you just have to take that stream head on, no exceptions, and you have to keep it up.

I just realized I triple posted last night with some nice replies to how much I actually thought OWA did a good job minus a few crazy choices, but I deleted it and just posted my lists and complaints in one post to simplify it, so I would keep from triple posting and having praise that was already stated. The list is a good grouping, and I didn't know that you didn't organize the difficulties within the groups, sorry. As I said, I had around only 10 problems out of about 100 songs, so of course I agree'd with most of your placements, I just moved a few around. Also, mine is sorted within difficulty so if people want to consolidate the lists and just work on specific song placements if they think either outline is fine. And no, there is no absolute difficulty and nothing will be perfect, or even objective, since all patterns and ratings are subjective, I know this be frequenting digitaldreamdoor all day every day. However, that doesn't mean we can't try to make a list that has the LEAST amount of complaints per person.

2) No matter which way people slice it, there will always be those that take offense to the particulars by virtue of their own opinions, skill sets and experiences (and you know who you are )

If you are talking to me, I take no offense to anything about this, these are just difficulties in a game, to think any of this personally bothers or offends me is just simply untrue, and I respect many peoples opinions, that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to say I strongly disagree with them, I'm not saying mine are any more right than anyone else's overall, I just feel in my opinion they are more accurate, not more correct mind you. If I think a movie suck, I'll say it sucks, doesn't mean it wounded my fragile, volatile soul.

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I still respect stavie's opinions and think I should note that I devised the list trying to determine how certain patterns/length/tps during certain sections of files get in the way of AAA'ing the file, rather than FC'ing (which is why songs like Floating Hour were placed a tad bit higher than some might expect if they're ranking song difficulty by ability to FC)

I'll write a more detailed response when I get home from uni, because although I've laughed at some of stavie's opinions on the difficulty of some files (AcidAce lmao), he's got a pretty good idea of where things should be. I'd say about 80+% of the time when he's presented a problem with some sort of in-game song difficulty, I've agreed with him.

[stavie33]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I still respect stavie's opinions and think I should note that I devised the list trying to determine how certain patterns/length/tps during certain sections of files get in the way of AAA'ing the file, rather than FC'ing (which is why songs like Floating Hour were placed a tad bit higher than some might expect if they're ranking song difficulty by ability to FC)

I'll write a more detailed response when I get home from uni, because although I've laughed at some of stavie's opinions on the difficulty of some files (AcidAce lmao), he's got a pretty good idea of where things should be. I'd say about 80+% of the time when he's presented a problem with some sort of in-game song difficulty, I've agreed with him.

I was really drunk when I played acidace and thought it was hard, I totally realize the file isn't that bad. When you're drunk everything seems so much harder so I am going to refrain from posting when I'm in that condition.

[justin_ator]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Good plan =] Lists are looking good, fellas

[stavie33]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I'd say we should rate them by FC'ability first, mainly because the game is so heavily combo based, then PA difficulty, then AAA difficulty (the idea that the difference between 20 goods and an SDG (PA) is much smaller than the difference between 2 goods and a AAA (AAA)). AAA difficulty, although it's what makes or brakes a song, is really only applicable to the people who are good enough to AAA those really high FMO's anyways, so it wouldn't be that good a difficulty rating for the general public, and the game is heavily combo based, if there is a huge combo breaking section, I'd say it's harder than a song where it's easy but you may pull a good or two, after all it's way easier to FC than to AAA so if you can't FC a song but can almost AAA another I'd say the one you can't FC is harder, at least at the time. Also, that doesn't deny that songs that are much harder to AAA are way higher, if there are parts that are that ridiculous to AAA, then those parts should be harder than parts that are moderately hard to combo anyways. It should be a mix of all three, I'd say all of them are even, with a slight emphasis on combo difficulty. This does help songs like Felsvelka and Floating Hour though, because those jacks and 32nd parts are major combo breakers for most inexperienced and most very good players. For the pro's, once the FC'ability is overcome, we realize how hard it is to AAA as well.

[Netjet!]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Should we not comprise some sort of "formula" that we can base all of the public songs off of? It would take into account note count, average TPS, pattern difficulty, number of AAA's FC's recorded, etc.

[bmah]

Re: Ingame Song Information

That has already been taken into consideration, and there were just too many variables and uncertainties to make that work.

[hi19hi19]

Re: Ingame Song Information

The file for Start Something still has incorrectly colored arrows. Is this an issue? lol

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Epic, Visions, and a bunch of others do as well...don't know if anything's going to be done about that

[psychoangel691]

Re: Ingame Song Information

yea huge walls of text..... Don't feel like reading it fully but I'm going to make one simple point.

If you're going to complain about how someone placed a song or two when they're taking the time out to go through over 1000 songs to try to improve the system, then why don't you go through the 1000s of songs yourself and make it "perfect" The ones I see complain the most around here are the ones that don't bother to try to do anything.

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Information

What do you mean by "try to do something"? From reading posts here I'd say most of the people who complain about song placements only have problems with a bunch of charts on the higher-level borders (C/VC, VC/FMO, FMO/FGO, FGO/FSO) and would be totally happy if those were moved. It looks like there are only a few people who care enough about the 1-99 system to get emotional over the exact placement of songs. Personally, I think difficulties are subjective enough that that level of precision is actually impossible, so we'd be better off using something like a 1-15 system anyway.

(So really, for most people, asking them to re-rank all the songs in FFR because they don't like a few placements would be like asking someone to totally rewrite an essay because there are a few grammar errors. Kinda overkill.)

[bmah]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I think the lower-level songs should be closely scrutinized as well. Most people will forget about them once they're AAAed.

[psychoangel691]

Re: Ingame Song Information

What do you mean by "try to do something"? From reading posts here I'd say most of the people who complain about song placements only have problems with a bunch of charts on the higher-level borders (C/VC, VC/FMO, FMO/FGO, FGO/FSO) and would be totally happy if those were moved. It looks like there are only a few people who care enough about the 1-99 system to get emotional over the exact placement of songs. Personally, I think difficulties are subjective enough that that level of precision is actually impossible, so we'd be better off using something like a 1-15 system anyway.

(So really, for most people, asking them to re-rank all the songs in FFR because they don't like a few placements would be like asking someone to totally rewrite an essay because there are a few grammar errors. Kinda overkill.)

Apparently you missed the point that I was making. The point was everyone wants to complain but no one wants to step up and fix it.

And actually quite a few people care about other areas other than just the higher level songs. They just happen to pose the highest problem because there are so many of them in game.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Ingame Song Information

yea huge walls of text..... Don't feel like reading it fully but I'm going to make one simple point.

If you're going to complain about how someone placed a song or two when they're taking the time out to go through over 1000 songs to try to improve the system, then why don't you go through the 1000s of songs yourself and make it "perfect" The ones I see complain the most around here are the ones that don't bother to try to do anything.

It's cool how you said you didn't read the walls of text and then you went on to criticize the content of them.

Basic summary of previous page: stavie thought there were some parts of owa's list that were misplaced and it was just a misunderstanding that the individual difficulties of the files within the groups weren't necessarily in order. Nobody complained about how someone placed a song aside from those who already placed the songs themselves. Even then it was just a simple misunderstanding which is now resolved.

Also if you were referring to me, I was just backing up OWA because stavie called his list ridiculous.

@stavie: FCability, PAability, and AAAability are all still very subjective and shouldn't be a basis for setting difficulties.