Ingame Song Information

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Information

And I've been complaining about Night and Day for god knows how long. That song is hard as shit and one of my worst FMO's.

Dude, it's a mid FMO. Just look at the scoreboards. More people have gotten <10 goods on N&D than on most low FGOs, even ones that have been around for ages. If you're only going to base your opinions on how much you personally have trouble with the patterns, nobody else has any reason to pay attention to them.


Also, and this goes out to everyone including stavie, the difference between 0 and 2-3 goods shouldn't matter in the difficulty ranking. Yeah, a lot of files are going to be kind of tricky to hit. Some more than others (hi Synthlight). But the ranking should be based only on how hard it is to hit, FC, and PA a given song, not on how hard it is to finally nail the AAA. Awkward sections should only be a factor in the difficulty if they pose a trouble to everyone - the people who are just at the level of reading, FCing, or starting to PA the file. So we get something like Skeletor, which still only has 6 AAAs (less than some recent low FGOs), but which should stay FMO, because the roll only becomes FGO-worthy if you're trying to shave off the last few goods.

[iironiic]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Dude, it's a mid FMO. Just look at the scoreboards. More people have gotten <10 goods on N&D than on most low FGOs, even ones that have been around for ages. If you're only going to base your opinions on how much you personally have trouble with the patterns, nobody else has any reason to pay attention to them.


Also, and this goes out to everyone including stavie, the difference between 0 and 2-3 goods shouldn't matter in the difficulty ranking. Yeah, a lot of files are going to be kind of tricky to hit. Some more than others (hi Synthlight). But the ranking should be based only on how hard it is to hit, FC, and PA a given song, not on how hard it is to finally nail the AAA. Awkward sections should only be a factor in the difficulty if they pose a trouble to everyone - the people who are just at the level of reading, FCing, or starting to PA the file. So we get something like Skeletor, which still only has 6 AAAs (less than some recent low FGOs), but which should stay FMO, because the roll only becomes FGO-worthy if you're trying to shave off the last few goods.

I agree with this. Just remember that many players share different strengths and weaknesses. The opinions they say will somewhat be biased because of these differences. More people needs to be open minded to accurately determine the difficulty, but clearly, that can't happen in practice.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Night and Day is nowhere near a high FMO. It's BARELY in the middle FMO area, the only reason it even stands a chance near that area is because of the ending 32nds. While they are quick, they are nowhere near impossible.

There are much better FMOs/FGO pairings to compare and think about - like Frictional Nevada (225 BPM) vs. Of course you Need and [...] NEED me (240 BPM), or something like Time to Eye (48th burst madness for short periods of time, very low 12) vs Tageri (nasty framer bursts, also very low 12)...

just examples. Pick better songs to fight about.

EDIT: this post was intended for stavie, haha

EDIT: The rating system is useless if people can sit and argue about it all the time. A new rating system is order, seriously.

[ScarletSky]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Night and Day is nowhere near a high FMO. It's BARELY in the middle FMO area, the only reason it even stands a chance near that area is because of the ending 32nds. While they are quick, they are nowhere near impossible.

There are much better FMOs/FGO pairings to compare and think about - like Frictional Nevada (225 BPM) vs. Of course you Need and [...] NEED me (240 BPM), or something like Time to Eye (48th burst madness for short periods of time, very low 12) vs Tageri (nasty framer bursts, also very low 12)...

just examples. Pick better songs to fight about.

EDIT: this post was intended for stavie, haha

EDIT: The rating system is useless if people can sit and argue about it all the time. A new rating system is order, seriously.

THIS
ALL OF THIS x9001

>big text to emphasize importance of post.

[Plan_Bsk81127]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I am not one really to care about difficulties too much, but is there a reason why OMGWTFT0K3N is a 12? That chart is defiantly a 13

[iironiic]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I am not one really to care about difficulties too much, but is there a reason why OMGWTFT0K3N is a 12? That chart is definitely* a 13

;] This rofl.

EDIT: Same with P4Uv1 imo

[bballa48]

Re: Ingame Song Information

In Stavie's defense, I don't think that he was implying it was a high FMO and certainly no where near a FGO. I think he was just echoing my statement that ranking it as a low FMO is an utter disgrace, specifically compared to the FMOs above it in Arcade alone. Heck, same with INFINITY hyperspace. That song, even outside of the 32nds section, is pretty tricky.

And I second both P4UV1 and OMGZ being 13s. They are way harder than every 12.

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Gigadelic and p4u v1 are obviously 13s, just look at the number of people who have SDG'd each one.

EDIT: The rating system is useless if people can sit and argue about it all the time. A new rating system is order, seriously.

Yeah, how about that idea I had ages ago where we compare the high score tables of two songs to determine which one most players can do better on? You just have to choose a file to be the hardest possible one of each difficulty, and you're pretty much done.

Oh yeah, and since it's automated and objective, you can literally just run the script and recalculate the difficulties every week. So a file could start out as 11 because people have some trouble doing well on it, but then move down to 10 once more people have figured out the patterns. There would be no need to debate difficulties or complain, because only the scores people are getting would affect the rated difficulty. (And my proposal isn't affected by the number of people who have played the file, just by how hard people have tried to get scores on it, and that evens out over time.)

[rushyrulz]

Re: Ingame Song Information

There needs to be a song difficulty metric based on the actual patterns, not the number of AAAs.

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Average percentage of max score or average score difference from perfect score can help determine ratings.

edit:

There needs to be a song difficulty metric based on the actual patterns, not the number of AAAs.

The inevitable problem with this is subjectivity, in comparison to something that is based off of player performance/scores (raw data/numbers = objective ratings).

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: Ingame Song Information

And I second both P4UV1 and OMGZ being 13s. They are way harder than every 12.

It's blatantly obvious party4u v1 is a 13, haha - it just hasn't been changed yet.

Before when I joked about OMGWTFTOKEN being a 12, that was because I had 2 clean on it (from dumb splitting in the beginning lol) while I wasn't able to get better than 3-0-0-5 on Revo. Overall, it is a 13 and should be bumped up, but it's definitely the lowest 13 if it does.

Revo has really intense jacking pattern sections and I've had thoughts about it being a 13 - it's just that for the other 13s they just get mashed HARD. Just an FC alone on Revo is guaranteed top 100 ranks if you have an FC equivalent to around 600 goods (which means you get goods/averages for around 1/3 of the file, and you'd have to mash heavily for that) while a mashed FC on Death Piano (talking 1300+ boos here) can give you top 70.

FGOs should be hard but easy enough to FC. Winter wind etude is one of those files that are just mashed heavily and don't have heavy long jacks, so that's an example of a high FGO that is easy enough to FC, just tough to score on.

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Average percentage of max score or average score difference from perfect score can help determine ratings.

Nope, you shouldn't look at the average because then the "difficulty" of a song depends on how long it's been out. The serious players go through files first, and then they very slowly accumulate plays by casual players.


PS: Revo should be the hardest 12.

[stavie33]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Dude, it's a mid FMO. Just look at the scoreboards. More people have gotten <10 goods on N&D than on most low FGOs, even ones that have been around for ages. If you're only going to base your opinions on how much you personally have trouble with the patterns, nobody else has any reason to pay attention to them.


Also, and this goes out to everyone including stavie, the difference between 0 and 2-3 goods shouldn't matter in the difficulty ranking. Yeah, a lot of files are going to be kind of tricky to hit. Some more than others (hi Synthlight). But the ranking should be based only on how hard it is to hit, FC, and PA a given song, not on how hard it is to finally nail the AAA. Awkward sections should only be a factor in the difficulty if they pose a trouble to everyone - the people who are just at the level of reading, FCing, or starting to PA the file. So we get something like Skeletor, which still only has 6 AAAs (less than some recent low FGOs), but which should stay FMO, because the roll only becomes FGO-worthy if you're trying to shave off the last few goods.

I have NEVER said Night and Day is FGO, it's far, FAR from it. I've been complaining that it's lower than Battle Theme 37 and Radio Heads. Where did you get the idea I thought it was FMO? I've been complaining that it's an 80 that's listed as a 78 that's lower in game than 77's

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Heaven is NOWHERE near FMO. Not even high high VC, probably a 73. How could you see it possibly being harder than Djdj Pvc, Crash the Beat, or Heroes Theme? Not even a 74. This isn't cause I think it's easy, it's because it has the same patterns at a lesser speed and a less dense extent than other VC's around it's range

My response to this: this song pushes out tons of 32nds at a higher BPM than Novo Mundo (160 vs. Novo Mundo's 140), an extremely low 11 that I foresee being dropped to a 10 very soon). So, it's at least comparable to a near-borderline file. Some of the patterns are difficult to read, regardless of them being simple to hit. I wouldn't say that it's nowhere near FMO -- I can see it being in the 73-74 area, the higher echelon of the VCs.

[stavie33]

Re: Ingame Song Information

My response to this: this song pushes out tons of 32nds at a higher BPM than Novo Mundo (160 vs. Novo Mundo's 140), an extremely low 11 that I foresee being dropped to a 10 very soon). So, it's at least comparable to a near-borderline file. Some of the patterns are difficult to read, regardless of them being simple to hit. I wouldn't say that it's nowhere near FMO -- I can see it being in the 73-74 area, the higher echelon of the VCs.

The problem with Novo IMO is that it is a lower BMP, it's so low it's hard to jumptrill without extreme precision, and even then it's easy as hell to pull goods, and the roll wall is pretty long, these are mainly single bursts. I said it's 73, but I still say it's nowhere near an FMO, and nowhere near means never going to become one to me, it doesn't mean how close it is to a high VC.