TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

Cypher wouldn't tell them the vigi. No reason to.

That's part of what I was getting at. The other part is if someone is successfully guarded, that person should not automatically get a free ride to not be lynched.

Really though, as far as I see it, the only really good outcome of a successful guard is that no one would have been wolfed the night before. Them being saved really is going to mean little, if anything to me.

[Omeganitros]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

Errr let me clarify that: The only part of Iggy's plan I like is sending the picks to Cypher. I do not endorse publically revealing picks. The picks should be kept between Cypher and the vigilante, and nobody else, so maybe later in the game they use it to pick out people in some sort of way, I dunno. Basically, I think it could be used as a tool to find wolves, and it doesn't hurt for Cypher and vigilante to have information, even if 3 of the picks are lies (hey, they may not be lies).

[Tasselfoot]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

Hmm... I like that Omega. No downside of any public revealing, but yet Cypher still having the information to work with himself. Kind of like eb in that mason-pair game.

Really though, as far as I see it, the only really good outcome of a successful guard is that no one would have been wolfed the night before. Them being saved really is going to mean little, if anything to me.

Wrong, sir! In addition to the guard, the vigi is free to use his power. As I stated during night 1, and is obvious from simple math... if there is a guard, we do NOT gain in extra night. The problem with the vigi is that if they pick a human, we LOSE a day. BUT... if there is a guard, the vigi is free to use their powers without the loss of a day. It would basically give us a "confirmed human" and allow us to choose the wolfing instead of the wolves.

[Kilgamayan]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

It would basically give us a "confirmed human" and allow us to choose the wolfing instead of the wolves.

Erm, a vigi attack at night doesn't stop that night's wolfing unless it kills the last wolf.

I don't know if that's what you were thinking or not but I want to avoid that confusion just in case anyone else does.

[flypie743]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

Errr let me clarify that: The only part of Iggy's plan I like is sending the picks to Cypher. I do not endorse publically revealing picks. The picks should be kept between Cypher and the vigilante, and nobody else, so maybe later in the game they use it to pick out people in some sort of way, I dunno. Basically, I think it could be used as a tool to find wolves, and it doesn't hurt for Cypher and vigilante to have information, even if 3 of the picks are lies (hey, they may not be lies).

I agree with this as well. As Omega and I were discussing Iggy's plan on AIM, Omega had mis-read what iggy said and thought that there was no public revealing involved. We both re-read and we both were against the public revealing of the names sent to Cypher. I, like Omega, support sending the names to Cypher, but not the public revealing. This information may or may not be used by Cypher, but if he needs it - it's there. Also, it seems odd to me that Iggy was really really pushing for public revealing of the names sent to Cypher.

[Tasselfoot]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

So that makes 3 of us who like that idea.


And Kilga... that is NOT what I meant. I merely was implying that if a wolf kill fails, not only do we get a "confirmed human", but there is nobody dead. AND then the vigi is free to use his kill, because killing a human won't make us lose a day anymore... so the vigi is basically choosing the wolves kill for them.

Make sense? Wolves don't get the kill. Humans get the guarded person. Vigi gets the kill. As such, Vigi is making Wolves kill for them, more or less.

[Omeganitros]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

I still don't get it, Tass. If a guard is made, that's the end of Night, andit becomes Day. If the vigilante uses his power during the day, the day doesn't end. Does it?

[GuidoHunter]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

The day doesn't end, but the end-of-game scenario changes, I believe, hence the "gaining a day".

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[Tasselfoot]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

Let me map this out...



-Let's say it is night 2. There are 14 of us alive. Wolves target X. X gets saved.

-Now on day 2, there are still 14 people. Now if there are 3 wolves, they can still win on day 5. Simple math says there will be 12 on day 3, 10 on day 4, 8 on day 5. 5 vs 3, game will still end if there are 3 wolves left after this day.

-So the save does NOT push the game back an extra day.

-Because the save doesn't push the game back an extra day, killing a "random" person chosen by Cypher and the vigi will have the same effect as if the wolves HAD gotten that kill on night 2. Same number of people.

-And on day 5, we'd be back to our normal 4 vs 3 scenario.

-Only difference is that we'd have a "guarded human" + the vigi would get to choose a kill. 2 positives out of the situation.


I really don't think I can explain this any more clearly. Y'all will have to go back to recess and hand holding if you don't follow still.

[Afrobean]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

Wrong, sir! In addition to the guard, the vigi is free to use his power. As I stated during night 1, and is obvious from simple math... if there is a guard, we do NOT gain in extra night. The problem with the vigi is that if they pick a human, we LOSE a day. BUT... if there is a guard, the vigi is free to use their powers without the loss of a day. It would basically give us a "confirmed human" and allow us to choose the wolfing instead of the wolves.

Really, that's just an extension of the "person didn't die thing." And honestly, I'd almost rather the person who would be killed by the vigi simply lynched. Logically, more people alive should result in more activity. Unless, of course, it comes to a situation where the vigi is really sure about someone and that certain someone wouldn't likely get lynched.

oh and quick question while I'm thinking about it: if vigi uses power, we all find out who they are, right? That would definitely make things interesting.

rofl @ people not understanding tass's comment about humans getting to "choose the wolfing" I thought it was pretty straightforward haha

And about this sending choices to cypher: It really is useless. I'll comply if I'm asked to by cypher, but the choices really are completely irrelevent. A wolf could simply say that they guarded the obvious choice for the night and in reality not vote at all. Then if the person they said they voted for happened to die anyway, their lie is protected because they had a less than 1 in 10 chance of their lot being drawn anyway.

[GuidoHunter]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

Giving Cypher the picks wouldn't help in getting the wolves at all, as you've pointed out, but he could use our patterns to suggest things in the future. Maybe he wants to split our votes up, maybe he wants everyone on one person, I don't know, but it couldn't hurt.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[aperson]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

I'm in the same boat as guido on this. Right now, we don't know how useful the information is. It might not be very useful at all (and imo, probably isn't), but at least it's something. Really look at the risk versus reward... There's zero risk and possibly some reward that could come out of it.

[blahblah18]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

hey guys
let's choose the 3 people we'd least like to see wolfed and have cypher tell each of us which one to choose to guard... that way with 14 people we get 11 votes on 3 people.. 4 4 3 most likely although the wolves would know when they have a greater percentage if all 3 wovles check in and were all given the same person, but other then that. This makes it such that each of 3 people has a 25 % chance of being guarded, which just strictly isn't worth it. This allows us to keep 3 people from being wolfed each night for the early days at least, and I think this could be more valuable then the possible guard. Thoughts?

[Omeganitros]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

Oh! I very much like that plan, Blah.

[Omeganitros]

Re: TWG XXXV - Knick It In The Bud

Let me see if I get it: We PM Cypher 3 names, the names of people we wouldn't want lynched. Cypher tallies up names, and takes the top three and PMs everyone back a name from one of these 3. We take our name and lotto it. That right?