Twg XXIX Postgame Wolves Win

[Tasselfoot]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

4-1 (I didn't ask blah, but I'm assuming...) TWC agree to scratch the game from the record.

bjstrattonim: What happened?
TasselFoot: Afro was not MW. Blah was. Therefore, in Afro's interrogation, he lied to all 3 questions... which resulted in me being lynched. Had Mead NOT allowed it (like he shouldn't have), then I would have been a 100% confirmed human.
bjstrattonim: o_O
bjstrattonim: How the hell does he miss that?
TasselFoot: and TPS and I would have had 2 full days to lynch blah. we may not have, but we had a much better shot at it, cause TPS would have trusted me.... and would have had a 2nd person with him.
TasselFoot: Mead allowed it. He didn't miss it.
TasselFoot: Afro thought I was the MW.... so Afro didn't realize he was lying.
TasselFoot: but nowhere in the rules does it make any allowance for what the interrogatee thinks. Only that he answer 1 question truthfully.
TasselFoot: and Afro lied to all 3. There is no debating that fact.
bjstrattonim: Yeah.
TasselFoot: so you agree the game should be null and voided?
bjstrattonim: So yeah, stripping it from the record is fine by me.


[20:48] TasselFoot: but, let me confirm... you agree that the game should be striken from the record because mead didn't stop afro from lying 3 times in his interrogation?
[20:49] this is chardish: agreed
[20:49] this is chardish: if i were mead I would have forced a repeat of the interrogation


the Kilga convo is repeated in the middle here... non-Kilga convo is bolded.
TasselFoot: i want confirmation of our earlier conversation, re:TWG... since blah won.
TasselFoot: bjstrattonim: What happened?
TasselFoot: Afro was not MW. Blah was. Therefore, in Afro's interrogation, he lied to all 3 questions... which resulted in me being lynched. Had Mead NOT allowed it (like he shouldn't have), then I would have been a 100% confirmed human.
bjstrattonim: o_O
bjstrattonim: How the hell does he miss that?
TasselFoot: and TPS and I would have had 2 full days to lynch blah. we may not have, but we had a much better shot at it, cause TPS would have trusted me.... and would have had a 2nd person with him.
TasselFoot: Mead allowed it. He didn't miss it.
TasselFoot: Afro thought I was the MW.... so Afro didn't realize he was lying.
TasselFoot: but nowhere in the rules does it make any allowance for what the interrogatee thinks. Only that he answer 1 question truthfully.
TasselFoot: and Afro lied to all 3. There is no debating that fact.
bjstrattonim: Yeah.
TasselFoot: so you agree the game should be null and voided?
bjstrattonim: So yeah, stripping it from the record is fine by me.
amanda tripped: Okay.
TasselFoot: you agree?
amanda tripped: Yes.


Also, I confirmed with Kilga, Guido, and Chardish the following bans:

Mead - Permanent Hosting Ban
Tasuke - Permanent TWG Ban due to inactivity
Gamepro - Permanent TWG Ban due to inactivity
Mini - 1 game TWG Ban due to inactivity
Jurs - 2 game TWG Ban due to inactivity

The 4 with bans can play/host in jTWG but playing/hosting TWG does not count towards their ban games (if not permanent).

I also think this covers my post-game topics of conversation... as I got royally screwed in the butt by Blah's leading on Afro/Jurs (which was very clever), but moreso by Mead's not vetoing Afro from lying to the 3rd question after the fact.

[Kilgamayan]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

All of the above concerning me is true.

[JurseyRider734]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

PS GG jurs for believing Tps. What were you thinking?

I had like 2 minutes to talk to him and he told me that mead confirmed everything wasn't a lie. I actually had tried to convince him that "you were lying" but uh...well I forget what happened from there.

I owned Tps in his interrogation of me. The first question he asked me was "are you a wolf?" hahaha. I said yes. Then the next two questions were worthless to him because he didn't know if i was lying or not. It just confused him.


Also I don't think I deserve a 2 game ban. I wasn't aware that I was going to be so busy the week after my play ended. That's bull****. I think I helped more than I hurt. Blah took almost all of my suggestions for kills and used them. Just because I didn't have time to post on the forums as much, I surely held aim conversations with people outside of the thread to make up for my "inactivity" (I also texted with Hans)

[Wilkin]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

Something I was thinking about, considering the game turned out to be a completely valid one...

Ooopsy, Tps. Right before the end of Day 2 we were talking about how voting Gamepro was pretty much uiseless, and was convincing me to lynch Blah. I was probably going to do it, but then I ran out of time. Would've made the rest of the game a lot different, especially since Afro and Jurs would've been known to each other.

Also, heres a convo I had with Hans the [game] night after Mini's insta:


NotSoFarOff: right now
NotSoFarOff: I call that three wolves are still alive
NotSoFarOff: 2/3 are tass/talis/blah, and of those two
NotSoFarOff: and the third is afro
NotSoFarOff: Just calling it now
NotSoFarOff: for postgame matters
NotSoFarOff: If I'm right, I get a BJ or something.


Hans was two-thirds correct, so I think he's entitled to two-thirds of a BJ. Any takers?

[Tasselfoot]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

Wilkin... not really. he named 4 people out of like... 9 or 11 left, including himself. Nearly 40 or 50% of the people in the game he named. And he only had 2/3 right.

Not that impressive. LD a few games ago was MUCH more impressive... saying eb and I were the wolves from either day 1 or day 2. Then again, he pulled that off of random.org, then just found reasons to continue hyping it all game. But he was still right.

[talisman]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

I'd say that afro answered the question truthfully, but he didn't tell the truth.

The problem was with the question, and that was mead's fault, and if (the majority) of twc wants to overrule mead's allowance of the question/response as they stood, then I think they can, as they (question/response) definitely had a bearing on the outcome of the game.

[Tasselfoot]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

He gave what he honestly assumed was a truthful statement.

That right there is what is wrong with your statement. He ASSUMED he was telling the truth. Let me get, from the host sign-up thread, the rules on the interrogator....

interrogator - At the end of every day, the person who is lynched joins a chatroom with the host and the interrogator. The lynched person is then forced to answer three questions asked by the interrogator, one of which MUST be answered correctly. The master wolf is the only exception to this, and does not have to answer any truthfully. (Note, more than one question may be answered truthfully, but at least one MUST be answered truthfully by everyone but the mw)

No where does it say anything about what the interrogee ASSUMES. It clearly states that he MUST tell the truth in at least 1 question. And you can not say that based purely on facts, that Afro told the truth to any of the 3 questions... despite what he believed to be true.

[Tps222]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

He should have said "I don't know" as there is no way he could have known 100%.

[Wilkin]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

I'm not sure on whether or not the game should be recorded, but I do know that the third question shouldn't have been allowed. They should have been limited to yes/no questions, without follow-ups.

Now, about Afro's answer. It's true that he didn't lie in his own mind. When Tps asked the question,:

Tps7910: 3. Have you met with another wolf? If so, reveal his/her identity, if not, say you haven't had any contact with any wolf.

Afro did not tell Tps THE TRUTH, only his interpretation of it. If Afro bet his life on it, he'd be dead. He may have been convinced it was Tass, but it was in error, either by his own thoughts or by Blah's IMing. Maybe it should have been clarified that the answers have to be absolutely truthful for the game, or else the question could have even been interpreted as "Have you met with another wolf [ever in TWG]?" (although unlikely).

What it basically comes down to, is if you kill a man in your sleep and don't remember it, did you still kill the man? To your knowledge, you did nothing wrong and would pass the lie detector test, but the blood is still on your hands.

That said, I think I've made up my mind. It shouldn't be recorded, or at least not officially. I'm not concerned about my stats or anything (my whole two games), but when put into perspective in the paragraph above, I feel it's the right decision.


On another note... Tass, let's just make it an even 25% BJ. Then we can all be happy... except Hans.

[Tps222]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

oh

Where the hell is my end of day losing story mead?

[GuidoHunter]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

Afro, there's nothing wrong with asking the same question twice. It's a disadvantage for the interrogator because he's limiting the information he can get and an advantage because it's putting the pressure to lie on the last question. It's strategic, not illegal.

And blah, I'm not going to lie and say your scheme wasn't a thing of beauty. In fact, I was so captivated by it that I never even thought to consider it illegal in some way. I was even hesitant to acknowledge that. However, it did violate the rules and thus the game should be invalidated, as the outcome was based on a broken rule. Who knows what would have happened otherwise.

--Guido

http://andy.mikee385.com

[JurseyRider734]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

Any takers?

I'll do it.

let's just make it an even 25% BJ. Then we can all be happy... except Hans.

I'll still do it.

[HansSky]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

None of this would have been an issue if this had been put into effect:

ALSO FOR THE PURPOSE OF KEEPING THINGS SIMPLE, I'VE DECIDED THAT THE WOLVES WILL ALL KNOW EACH OTHER'S IDENTITIES. Sorry, Tass, no faking a wolf this game.

[Afrobean]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

Oh. One more thing.

Why was I lynched? No one really gave a real reason for it. That was really annoying. It'd be one thing if there was an alliance and they were just picking off people who weren't in the alliance, but it wasn't like that.

[Kilgamayan]

Re: Twg Xxix Postgame Wolves Win

Because, even though both sides were suspicious of each other, basically everyone was suspicious of you, so you were the happy medium we all agreed upon to avoid phantoms for multiple people.