On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

[Bolth mannn]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Well I think Charu is absolutely right, we’re all here And talking about this in general because we love the game, and it is unfortunate, because I agree that censoring is not the answer. I’d be interested to see what funnygurl has to say about the issue as she mentioned another TWG community elsewhere that toxicity didn’t seem to be present in (in the postgame thread) and I’m curious whether that’s to do with any rules the forums over there might have or if it’s more to do with the different personalities that happen to play over there

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Why am I rambling about this when I haven't even played a single game in over a year (or more now, I don't know)?

I miss playing I guess. If it's not inactives, it's... this issue. I think I went the opposite direction and learned how much of a dick I've been when I was playing this in my heyday. I miss it, but at the same time, I don't like what it brought out of me (or anyone else).

Of course there's other personal reasons, but shhhhhhhhh...

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

However, emotion is a big part in these kind of games. When it gets tense, it gets TENSE. Size 4 and bold and everything! It's really really REALLY easy to forget to moderate yourself in critical moments. It's also really really REALLY easy to feel offended even if a particular bite-y post was not assaulting your abilities. Like the above example, it can still feel like you're insulting someone's reading comprehension indirectly, which majority of the time they DID feel like that anyways after "moderating".

Unfortunately there's no fix for that. If the person you're replying to interprets it as such, they will no matter what you'll say. You can try to apologize, but no one here is flat out dumb to not know what your intent was.

All in all, the problem will just repeat itself more or less, which is why, once again, I stopped because I can't control someone's emotions and how they speak/type. It's not going to go away, not unless censorship happens and I'll not have that in TWG. Butchering someone's personality just because they're known to be super abrasive and blunt in general.

It's just unfortunate.

[mellonxcollie]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

what about every time you want to use an insult you instead sub in a funny word like Gordon Ramsey

"you fucking donkey!" "you friggin donut!"

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Alright, now I'm on a keyboard at work, uh oh!

The "solution" to toxicity isn't some kind of rule that would make the problem go away. It's tied to player personality and as such, that's why I made a point about how some are just like that and it's in their normal dialect. I think censoring in general is a big no-no because it restricts who they are.

What I DO propose though is have players do what I've done in my last few games if this thread was made because someone insulted a player.

Moderate themselves accordingly. Or try to...

Read the post back and determine if your flavored post is attacking someone on a personal level. Leave in the curses and swearing and what have you, if the player finds that offensive, then that's their fault and not yours.

So that example above?

"What the fuck are you talking about you fucking moron? I've explained why I believe (player) is (guilty/notguilty) multiple fucking times. Learn how to read dipshit or stop being bad at the game."

Knock it down to this.

"What the fuck are you talking about? I've explained why I believe (player) is (guilty/notguilty) multiple fucking times. Please read my posts!"

It still gives that bite, but now you're not insulting the player. If the player feels insulted after that, then it's on them and not you.

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

And for some people... That's just who they are, and I get it.

I might post more once I'm settled at work, lol

[Bolth mannn]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Agreed^

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

I guess I should expand, time for shower thoughts (literally as I type this)

The act of name calling or challenging someone's logic isn't the issue. It's how players go about it at an extreme negative angle to purposely provoke a player.

For example...

"The hell are you talking about? I've explained why I believe (player) is (guilty/notguilty) if you look at my previous posts!?"

To...

"What the fuck are you talking about you fucking moron? I've explained why I believe (player) is (guilty/notguilty) multiple fucking times. Learn how to read dipshit or stop being bad at the game."

Both convey the same message, but its pretty clear which one is intended to provoke a player negatively.

[Charu]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Yeah, this is probably one of the biggest reason why I stopped.

The other because I've done it myself and I don't wish to bad mouth anyone. I think I've been good about moderating myself the last few times I played, but meh.

Also just seeing the same type of crud on others mafia sites or spinoffs (ToS, Among us, ect) makes me believe there's really no avoiding it since the games at its core is all about lying and trying to clear yourself. It doesn't help that innocent players, when being pinned with being guilty for what they believe to be a "stupid" reason, are of course going to not think fondly of everyone accused.

Then there's the issue of when I see actual guilty players use this as a means to win. By name calling, attacking someone's thinking, ect. Like I said, I've done this before when I was considered a good wolf. It's... not right. I nor anyone should do that to get a win. It's playing dirty.

...

Was the last game that toxic? I didn't watch the game, lmao

[_Zenith_]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

I think there's clauses of gray areas regarding the subject, and speaking formally about it here, none of the actives have actively bullied or ridiculed an individual in ad hominem fashion to me. The gray area is town having the right to be frustrated at a self-destructive town game or pool, however saying "you're an idiot" should probably be stated like "that was a poor play" because people view that as a personal jest rather than a comment about what happened with poor wording (which is what I did to bug in the most recent game because I really needed him to read Cedo as a wolf and he flipped on me lol).

The last seriously toxic moment I've witnessed in FFRTWG in the last few months was when that Adam guy played with us that one game and I had to sub his slot. He said some really fucked up things and that's inexcusable. Other than that instance, I can't recall a situation that was a fraction as toxic as that event.

There's multiple lines to draw here moving forward, and I think one of the first ones would be dealing with frustration as a whole, or installing some countermeasure to excessive demeanor like repeatedly attacking someone's character rather than keeping discussion game-based. There's a lot of confusion about someone being frustrated but it being taken as toxicity, which I have to agree with defining toxicity withing TWG itself. I think that would be a good first step.

I also agree that post-game should be more about sportsmanship rather than highlighting what went wrong or bashing on any particular team for losing in any given way. There's not enough praise given when players deserve it, and we have some absolutely strong players and promising up-and-comers.

I could continue this, but I feel like I'm dragging this along more than it needed to be, and I apologize if some things I said made little sense, but I'm glad to see even an attempt at figuring out as a collective whole means to improve the community and the matches moving forward.

[Bolth mannn]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Ok but it seems to be why this thread was made



So I feel I'm not out of line discussing it in those terms.
You're also missing my point about the definition of what TWG is. I don't think you and a lot of people who have voiced this stance before are being as clear as you might think

It's 3am so if there's anything for me to respond to I'll do it later.

Regardless of why this thread was created, banning certain words/phrases/slurs is not going to fix anything.

There are members of this community that are verbally abusive/aggressive and condescending when they play. THAT, in my opinion, is the issue, and it’s unlikey to be fixed by some sort of modification of the rules.

[MixMasterLar]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

I’m not arguing for a strict rule/line about what is considered too toxic

Ok but it seems to be why this thread was made

I think we can all agree that we have not been enforcing where the line is, and maybe we ought to begin doing that

So I feel I'm not out of line discussing it in those terms.
You're also missing my point about the definition of what TWG is. I don't think you and a lot of people who have voiced this stance before are being as clear as you might think

It's 3am so if there's anything for me to respond to I'll do it later.

[Bolth mannn]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

And I would argue TWG shouldn’t be defined as a game about not being nice, it’s about problem solving, deduction skills and lying

[Bolth mannn]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

I’m not arguing for a strict rule/line about what is considered too toxic, TWG is a social game and things get heated, that’s fine. My example is the difference between someone making the choice to be verbally abusive/aggressive and condescending verses not being so, and at the end of the day, that’s where I think the problem lies.

[MixMasterLar]

Re: On the subject of Toxicity/Community Check-in (TWG)

Oh people have given me examples before I'm good on that.

I'm asking for a definition so we can have a deeper conversation then our standard "be nice in a game about not being nice" discussions.