Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

Separating purchased/secret into hidden implicitly removes a necessity for credits if people are only after acing public level ranks.

[andy-o24]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

No need for credits would make the gambling hall a pretty bumping place.

-o24

[Reshiram]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

Legacy ranks separated from public ranks.

That way they count but don't get forced upon the player to keep their public rates at acceptable levels. But ONlY files with BNS go into Legacy. Any colored files remain as-is.

[foxfire667]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

I really don't think it's fair to take that away from those who did work for it.

Just going to say that I worked for it, and frankly, I think it's perfectly fine. Whether the files get separate ranks, aren't ranked at all, or lets be serious here what actually will happen (ie: nothing once soever) it doesn't bother me any in terms of losing AAA's / good scores. Whatever improves FFR as a whole I'm all for, regardless of how it affects me.

This seems like a pretty interesting topic, I would probably get more into it if I thought it actually had a chance of happening to any extent. Though we all know where this is going unfortunately.

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

Ye of little faith~

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

Just going to say that I worked for it, and frankly, I think it's perfectly fine. Whether the files get separate ranks, aren't ranked at all, or lets be serious here what actually will happen (ie: nothing once soever) it doesn't bother me any in terms of losing AAA's / good scores. Whatever improves FFR as a whole I'm all for, regardless of how it affects me.

This seems like a pretty interesting topic, I would probably get more into it if I thought it actually had a chance of happening to any extent. Though we all know where this is going unfortunately.

Yeah well it bugs me. The synth files were something I whored like hell to get out of my level ranks. What will happen is I'll lose out on ranks that I worked for where as there are others that are either too lazy to do it or can't do it. It's something I have an edge on people with because I'm good at the awkward files. Also you might not care about how it affects you losing scores but some of us do. I can't AAA a lot of the things that the majority of the active community can now and it's like lets take away the stuff I actually can do. It's not fair and I don't think it's improving FFR as a whole to remove those files. There are way better things time could be focused on to improve ffr than removing files.

I said it in my other post, if legacy are being moved then so should all the old files that aren't up to today's standards. I think it's stupid to single out only those files when there are other files that would be considered crap by today's standards. A huge chunk of FFR's older files wouldn't even come close to passing the judgement team now.

[TheSaxRunner05]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

Maybe we can fix the offsets on songs that are notoriously out of sync. That woul make FFR a little better.

Edit:\\ I realize this would not do much for most of the legacy files, but there are definitely some that could use it

[TC_Halogen]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

It wouldn't help much for legacy files considering some of those files not only just have incorrect offsets, but also incorrect step placement/BPMs.

[TheSaxRunner05]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

My edit was too late lol

[mi40]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

move rly badly stepped files to tokens
keep the adequately done ones ?? ?

[foxfire667]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

Ye of little faith~

Well, it's more like I feel certain nothing will come from this, so no faith at all really. I am all for being pleasantly surprised though.

I can't AAA a lot of the things that the majority of the active community can now and it's like lets take away the stuff I actually can do. It's not fair and I don't think it's improving FFR as a whole to remove those files. There are way better things time could be focused on to improve ffr than removing files.

It might not feel fair, but I suppose the same could be said for quite a few changes FFR has gone through, or any song that has ever been replaced or removed. You might have put a lot of effort into something, and that is great, but improving the game should be the first priority honestly. Don't you feel like newer players shouldn't have to whore these types of files to improve their level ranks? I would say that most of the files in the legacy genre are not an accurate representation of the songs rhythmically, which seems like a pretty big deal considering this is a rhythm game after all.

I said it in my other post, if legacy are being moved then so should all the old files that aren't up to today's standards. I think it's stupid to single out only those files when there are other files that would be considered crap by today's standards. A huge chunk of FFR's older files wouldn't even come close to passing the judgement team now.

I'm not a file judge, but I personally feel like there is a difference between files that might have odd patterns or strange step choices, and those that are legitimately not synced properly. It is not an offset issue or anything, the methods used to create these files were terrible, and obviously the final product suffered severely for it. They are not subjective issues, they are syncing problems that make them very annoying to play (as they don't always flow with the music).

Though I personally wouldn't be against reevaluations of files if a large enough amount of the FFR community think that they are terrible. I'm probably in the minority about that one though.

[PaperclipGames]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

The idea of making a seperate Legacy Levelranks seems to have a bit of good for both sides, and overall sounds like the currently least bashed option.

From one side you have the players who whored the fuck out of them and they still have something of worth: a clean Legacy Levelrank. IMO it should be possible to view these (as in they are "public"), but they wouldn't count along with the normal public levelranks.

From the other side, people are no longer forced to play shitty files in order to clean up their public levelranks; but if they so decide to also pay attention to their other rankings (be it Tokens or Legacy), they can work on that and still achieve things.

I'm personally not against completely removing them, but not in favour either; considering almost everyone wants to at least keep them somewhere, it seems fair deal to not remove them, just move them.

Blending them in with the Token ranks is a horrible idea.

I'm all for a seperate list, that should include all the total shitfiles, including some that don't have BNS (ex: Crowdpleaser v1).

[Pseudo Enigma]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

First off I want to say something about keeping these files in-game. I understand both sides of the argument, and I totally empathize towards the sentiments of those who wish to keep the Legacy files in-game.

It's not fair and I don't think it's improving FFR as a whole to remove those files. There are way better things time could be focused on to improve ffr than removing files.

this is like saying "oh we should keep the avmiss because I'm used to it, and there's many people I am better than because of it."

Does FFR have any standards? Why are we trying so desperately to keep the outdated files for the sake of nostalgia? Will this actually increase the quality of the game if we keep these in?

These are questions that are being raised by this thread, and it's totally confusing me as to why we are trying to keep these files.

Quite honestly I'm embarrassed to look at those files when we have such a high standard for ourselves, see the Batch/Queue thread judging process, and when my files get denied by those judges, I feel like calling bullshit because of the files we are discussing.

I know no one will actually take my words seriously, and this is just my 2 bucks, but it's actually quite sad to the quality of FFR be crippled by people who want to keep these files ingame. I'm probably taking this too seriously, so... just ignore me if I've gone overboard.

[PaperclipGames]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

One big reason I would like the Legacy files to be at least no longer public-ranked, which has not yet been addressed, is that it may repel new members. They may play some of the easiest files and thus have a reasonable chance of stumbling over a couple Legacy files, then applying false induction and think that many files of this game are shitty like that -- and as a result, leave.

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

It might not feel fair, but I suppose the same could be said for quite a few changes FFR has gone through, or any song that has ever been replaced or removed. You might have put a lot of effort into something, and that is great, but improving the game should be the first priority honestly. Don't you feel like newer players shouldn't have to whore these types of files to improve their level ranks? I would say that most of the files in the legacy genre are not an accurate representation of the songs rhythmically, which seems like a pretty big deal considering this is a rhythm game after all.

How many songs have been replaced or removed unless it was because of a permission issue? Again I don't agree that this is improving the game, there are much bigger issues with ffr than legacy files I already stated that. I feel that newer players should be able to make up their own minds and not have others make it up for them which is what you're trying to do. Maybe they enjoy those files, how would you know? I loved those files when I was a newbie. Newer player shouldn't have to deal with over 1400 files either but hey that doesn't really come up much does it? I remember before I was an active community member Beethoven Virus disappeared and I was so upset and had no idea what was going on because I wasn't in the community and I LOVED that file, still do actually and don't think it should be moved to a different rank page. Stop making assumptions for the newer players who don't have an active stance in the community to voice their opinions on it. Base if off your own reasoning and don't drag people's voices in that you don't know whether or not they care.

I'm not a file judge, but I personally feel like there is a difference between files that might have odd patterns or strange step choices, and those that are legitimately not synced properly. It is not an offset issue or anything, the methods used to create these files were terrible, and obviously the final product suffered severely for it. They are not subjective issues, they are syncing problems that make them very annoying to play (as they don't always flow with the music).

There are plenty of other files in FFR that have sync issues, mis-rhythms and more. I'm not just talking about odd patterns or strange step choices and if that's really what you think I think you need to go back and play some of the non legacy old files. There are plenty with improper colors floating around as well.

Though I personally wouldn't be against reevaluations of files if a large enough amount of the FFR community think that they are terrible. I'm probably in the minority about that one though.

It would be stupid to reevaluate them because they wouldn't pass today's standards. They're a part of FFR's past, I don't see why we're trying to eradicate that so much.

this is like saying "oh we should keep the avmiss because I'm used to it, and there's many people I am better than because of it."

Does FFR have any standards? Why are we trying so desperately to keep the outdated files for the sake of nostalgia? Will this actually increase the quality of the game if we keep these in?

These are questions that are being raised by this thread, and it's totally confusing me as to why we are trying to keep these files.

Quite honestly I'm embarrassed to look at those files when we have such a high standard for ourselves, see the Batch/Queue thread judging process, and when my files get denied by those judges, I feel like calling bullshit because of the files we are discussing.

Avmiss is completely different than a file that is "poor quality" Avmiss actually made it IMPOSSIBLE to do certain things on the game, where as the old songs just may be difficult to some. There's a huge difference. I enjoy legacy files and I don't think it's fair for them to be removed. There's tons of files on the game I can't stand but I don't bitch about them I deal with it because I know there are people who do like them. This isn't just "nostalgia" for me, I enjoy a lot of the legacy files regardless if they're up to today's standards. I also like the challenge of them.
Calling bullshit on your files being rejected because of files that were created 10+ years ago is silly. Obviously things change over the years. Although I don't agree with the high standards and never have because frankly I find most of the "technically correct" files annoying and have more fun with files that generally end up being less perfect. But that's an argument I've had too many times and I'm not going to waste the time on it again. A lot of times you'll find me playing things like For FFR and Runny Morning over the newer files.

The idea of making a seperate Legacy Levelranks seems to have a bit of good for both sides, and overall sounds like the currently least bashed option.

From one side you have the players who whored the fuck out of them and they still have something of worth: a clean Legacy Levelrank. IMO it should be possible to view these (as in they are "public"), but they wouldn't count along with the normal public levelranks.

From the other side, people are no longer forced to play shitty files in order to clean up their public levelranks; but if they so decide to also pay attention to their other rankings (be it Tokens or Legacy), they can work on that and still achieve things.

I don't agree having a separate rank is a solution. I don't touch token songs because they don't count towards my overall rank which is what everyone looks at. I had to fight to get under 200 avrank because I'm not a strong player and now everyone wants to take away stuff I was actually capable of doing and most of the people that want to take them away are people capable of gaining really good scores on high level files. Not fair imo.

There are a lot of files I could call shitty other than the legacy files, why should I be forced to play them to clean up my ranks? Why should I have to play an 8 minute long song when I hate doing songs longer than like 2 and a half minutes to clean up my ranks? Why should any of us have to endure songs we can't stand to clean up our ranks? Because if you want good ranks you play through all the challenges the game has to offer good or bad not try to get it thrown out.

If there's going to be all these different rankings then there needs to be an overall ranking for ALL of them. Tokens, Skill tokens, Legacy, Public, etc.

One big reason I would like the Legacy files to be at least no longer public-ranked, which has not yet been addressed, is that it may repel new members. They may play some of the easiest files and thus have a reasonable chance of stumbling over a couple Legacy files, then applying false induction and think that many files of this game are shitty like that -- and as a result, leave.

Because seeing over 1400 files to go through and super hard files doesn't possibly repel new members right? Legacy already has it's own genre.