Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

[Pseudo Enigma]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

I really feel like there should've been a third option for complete removal. 41:22 (Yes:No) doesn't tell you how many of the 41 people want them out of the game completely.

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

The poll isn't even reliable because of the way it was worded. Several people have mentioned they choose the wrong option. Having the word no in there makes it confusing for people. You need to just read what people have said pretty much.

Edit: Just going to add that I personally think to be most fair we either

A: Break up the files into basically different games like a DDR game or something would be so like have files from 2002 - 2005 together 2006 to 2009 together then 2010 to now or something to that effect.

B: We have all these separate ranks and then an overall rank that accounts for all of them.

[PaperclipGames]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

I don't touch token songs because they don't count towards my overall rank which is what everyone looks at. I had to fight to get under 200 avrank because I'm not a strong player and now everyone wants to take away stuff I was actually capable of doing and most of the people that want to take them away are people capable of gaining really good scores on high level files. Not fair imo.

Other people may find it unfair that they'd have to play shitty songs for a decent avrank. This is not a one-sided issue, as should be obvious by now.

It seems as though the main reason you want them to stay in public ranks (or let them count towards some sort of public rank) is because you have personally whored them and you don't feel like you can be a match to some people with the other songs. That's a personal stance, which I respect, but I don't see how that personal stance is a rational thought whatsoever, and thus, I don't see how it is a valid reason for the entirity of FFR having to deal with Legacy files, especially considering there are objective overall reasons as to why they should vanish from the public ranks.

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

Other people may find it unfair that they'd have to play shitty songs for a decent avrank. This is not a one-sided issue, as should be obvious by now.

It seems as though the main reason you want them to stay in public ranks is because you have whored them and you don't feel like you can be a match to some people with the other songs. That's a personal stance, which I respect, but I don't see how that personal stance is a rational thought whatsoever, and thus, I don't see how it is a valid reason for the entirity of FFR having to deal with Legacy files, especially considering there are objective overall reasons as to why they should vanish from the public ranks.

It's not like I'm the only one in this position lol but I don't go and speak for others I let them do that for themselves. A whole lot of people are speaking for people that they don't even know whether or not these people even care. So take out the people who aren't community goers and can't voice their opinion in the matter which is what a lot of people have brought up is these new players that they're making assumptions about.

Now why should myself and however many others lose out on scores we worked for so that others who don't feel like dealing with them can just get away with not doing them? There are people here that are more than capable of getting these but they don't feel like dealing with it. Well I don't feel like dealing with a lot of songs as I mentioned in my previous post but I deal with it because it's part of the game.

If we're going to eradicate legacy to another ranking then we need to basically do it for a lot of files because there are a lot that would be considered "shit" files now. Objectively as you like to mention for the legacy files.

Not going to repeat myself over and over again. I've said the same thing a few times now because it seems people only half read what I'm saying.

P.S. I should add that it's not like I love every single legacy file like Hellbeat can go diaf but I still don't sit here and try to get rid of it just because I don't like it.

Edit: Maybe we should just be doing away with avrank all together and just having people getting best rankings on individual songs. That would resolve all issues with files that people don't like.

[PaperclipGames]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

It's not like I'm the only one in this position lol but I don't go and speak for others I let them do that for themselves. A whole lot of people are speaking for people that they don't even know whether or not these people even care. So take out the people who aren't community goers and can't voice their opinion in the matter which is what a lot of people have brought up is these new players that they're making assumptions about.

We will either have to completely ignore the silent part of the community, or make assumptions. There is no other way. We need to do what we think will be the best for them, do we not? I assume that you don't wish to cater only to the people who voice their opinion here. Excuse me for trying to think of a solution that will be the most pleasant for the most amount of people.

Now why should myself and however many others lose out on scores we worked for so that others who don't feel like dealing with them can just get away with not doing them?

Because the files are shit.

There are people here that are more than capable of getting these but they don't feel like dealing with it. Well I don't feel like dealing with a lot of songs as I mentioned in my previous post but I deal with it because it's part of the game.

You're free to choose whether or not to deal with any song. I don't see any problem with that. I avoid some files that are way too damn long, for example.

If we're going to eradicate legacy to another ranking then we need to basically do it for a lot of files because there are a lot that would be considered "shit" files now. Objectively as you like to mention for the legacy files.

I agree.

[redsea]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

Why don't you just have a collab of simfile authors remake the legacy files? I mean, they are not all that bad...they just need some modifications. I actually like most of the song choices in the genre:/ I've said this before, but we should think about having an anniversary soon, where we bring back files like chronotrigger and ff7 in a revised format.

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

We will either have to completely ignore the silent part of the community, or make assumptions. There is no other way. We need to do what we think will be the best for them, do we not? I assume that you don't wish to cater only to the people who voice their opinion here. Excuse me for trying to think of a solution that will be the most pleasant for the most amount of people.

Because the files are shit.

You're free to choose whether or not to deal with any song. I don't see any problem with that. I avoid some files that are way too damn long, for example.

I agree.

I'm not free to choose because there's AVRANK and because of that I have to play files I don't enjoy to be in the rankings. Isn't that why people are trying to get them into a different ranking in the first place? If that's the case and we're free to chose then we don't need to remove/move legacy files.

You might think the files are shit, others might think the files are shit then you have people like me who find a lot of them fun to play.

You can't say it's the best solution for the most people when only a select few voice their opinion. Best solution is to do away with avrank all together and people wouldn't give a shit about these files being there or others they don't like for that matter.

Why don't you just have a collab of simfile authors remake the legacy files? I mean, they are not all that bad...they just need some modifications. I actually like most of the song choices in the genre:/ I've said this before, but we should think about having an anniversary soon, where we bring back files like chronotrigger and ff7 in a revised format.

This has been suggested several times when the debate of legacy comes up but it doesn't happen.

[Pseudo Enigma]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

You might think the files are shit, others might think the files are shit then you have people like me who find a lot of them fun to play.

this is just a simple thing of majority here, and you're not the majority. That's how democracy works.

As for people not voicing their opinion, this happens in democracies and they say they are being screwed by the government, but however don't do anything about it and half the time are the people who could've done something better for themselves.

What I mean by this is, either they don't care, or they are screwing themselves. They are making a choice to remain silent, and we can't just bombast the votes by assuming there are some people who would object. There are some people who are remaining silent because they simply don't care and just like playing the game.

However, we also must remember that our voice doesn't matter half the time we think it does, and that this conversation might be complete moot compared to the agendas of the people in charge of this change.

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

this is just a simple thing of majority here, and you're not the majority. That's how democracy works.

As for people not voicing their opinion, this happens in democracies and they say they are being screwed by the government, but however don't do anything about it and half the time are the people who could've done something better for themselves.

What I mean by this is, either they don't care, or they are screwing themselves. They are making a choice to remain silent, and we can't just bombast the votes by assuming there are some people who would object. There are some people who are remaining silent because they simply don't care and just like playing the game.

However, we also must remember that our voice doesn't matter half the time we think it does, and that this conversation might be complete moot compared to the agendas of the people in charge of this change.

It's not they don't care most people have no idea what's going on. I didn't even know the community existed for the earlier part of my FFR years. I didn't hit the forums until 2009 but I've been a player since like 2004.

[PaperclipGames]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

I'm not free to choose because there's AVRANK and because of that I have to play files I don't enjoy to be in the rankings. Isn't that why people are trying to get them into a different ranking in the first place?

You might think the files are shit, others might think the files are shit then you have people like me who find a lot of them fun to play.

The difference here is that, for example, I dislike playing very long files, but that doesn't mean I want them to go. In fact, I want those long files to stay.

The only reason why people want Legacy out is because of their poor quality. They might still be fun to play (hell, I like a few of the files), but simply because of the poor stepping standard, people don't think they deserve to be a part of the ranking, next to all the properly stepped songs.

You can't say it's the best solution for the most people when only a select few voice their opinion. Best solution is to do away with avrank all together and people wouldn't give a shit about these files being there or others they don't like for that matter.

My answer to the underlined is the bold. I'm sorry, but I can't take this part of your post seriously.

Note that I never said my idea was going to be the best for most people; it is what I believe to be so, based on the collective opinion that already has been voiced here. I personally find it strange how you keep saying the equivalent of "you can't know what's best for everyone" but at the same time act as if you do know.

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

The difference here is that, for example, I dislike playing very long files, but that doesn't mean I want them to go. In fact, I want those long files to stay.

The only reason why people want Legacy out is because of their poor quality. They might still be fun to play (hell, I like a few of the files), but simply because of the poor stepping standard, people don't think they deserve to be a part of the ranking, next to all the properly stepped songs.

My answer to the underlined is the bold. I'm sorry, but I can't take this part of your post seriously.

Note that I never said my idea was going to be the best for most people; it is what I believe to be so, based on the collective opinion that already has been voiced here. I personally find it strange how you keep saying the equivalent of "you can't know what's best for everyone" but at the same time act as if you do know.

Where did I ever say I knew what everyone wanted, I've clearly stated several times you can't no and shouldn't be basing an argument on "new" players when you have no idea what they want. Most new players aren't going to know the difference between a "good" and "bad" chart lmao. Hence why I've voiced it as myself which you're taking as a solely me me me thing, I just don't want to put words into others mouths and I'm bringing in a different possible perspective that I'm sure there are others that feel the same.

The argument I've seen for legacy files is "I shouldn't or new players shouldn't" have to deal with shit files without considering the fact that well one there's a ton of files other than legacy that would be considered shit and without caring about the people who had to play them or have been around for years. It basically feels like a big FU to all the players that have been around for a long time and a big FU to the people who took the time to have to step those files through notepad to even bring you the game in the first place.

The reason I said doing away with avrank is the best solution is because everyone doesn't matter who you are will have files/songs you do not like to play. Doing away with avrank makes it so that you don't -have- to play a song to be in the ranking and can fight for rankings based on the songs you want to play. Whole reason these file arguments keep happening is because of ranks. Same with crowdpleaser and such.

[PaperclipGames]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

It basically feels like a big FU to all the players that have been around for a long time and a big FU to the people who took the time to have to step those files through notepad to even bring you the game in the first place.

^ Example of assumptions you make about people you know and don't know. Seriously, you assume at least as often and as much as everyone else does.

Also, if 80% of the active community thinks X, then we can only assume that 80% of the entire community thinks X also. It may be less or more in reality, but since there's no way of knowing for sure (since they're silent), we'll have to act upon the active voices. That's how things go.

I don't understand what's difficult about that.

[yo man im awesome]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

Legacy should have it's own levelranks, simple as that.

They shouldn't be in public ranks, but they shouldn't be in token ranks. I don't see any need for discussion.

[psychoangel691]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

^ Example of assumptions you make about people you know and don't know. Seriously, you assume at least as often and as much as everyone else does.

Also, if 80% of the active community thinks X, then we can only assume that 80% of the entire community thinks X also. It may be less or more in reality, but since there's no way of knowing for sure (since they're silent), we'll have to act upon the active voices. That's how things go.

I don't understand what's difficult about that.

Lol right because the active community consists of like 300 people where as the game has way more players than that. I said it from my perspective that it feels like a big FU because I'm an old player. I haven't sat there and said oh this will drive new players away and such as you speculated.

I also love how a good chunk of people arguing them out are players more than capable of doing it but don't have them done.

[PaperclipGames]

Re: Should the Legacy genre no longer count towards public ranks?

Lol right because the active community consists of like 300 people where as the game has way more players than that.

How else is a community going to decide anything? Ask every single player's opinion? GLHF.

Legacy should have it's own levelranks, simple as that.

They shouldn't be in public ranks, but they shouldn't be in token ranks. I don't see any need for discussion.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.