TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

Got a quick sec
Really didnt miss much huh

Im not sure why you say it isnt as forced as I say it is, I figure we absolutely have to, but that probably isn't really a discussion worth having so long as you still agree

I also dont know what you mean by me "putting it all on you"

it really isn't forced at all, mechanically speaking. it wouldn't even be optimal play if there wasn't the clear scum case against him. in similar situations in other games you yourself have basically said to leave stuff like this to the host and resolve to hunt wolves instead.

it just so happens that the mechanical play and the scumhunt point in the same direction

[bugkid666]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

unfortunately i don't even think there's much i can respond to or deduce before eod as it stands. i'm gonna enjoy my day at knott's berry farm and trust in my vote as best as i'm able

[bugkid666]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

i will likely be busy the rest of the day but i'm not bothered between either dbp or zenith dying. in fact, i'll put my trust in sun man and zenith now

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

Got a quick sec
Really didnt miss much huh

Im not sure why you say it isnt as forced as I say it is, I figure we absolutely have to, but that probably isn't really a discussion worth having so long as you still agree

I also dont know what you mean by me "putting it all on you"

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

I didn't see those other two posts before responding if you wanted me to also respond to those then it didn't work out that way sry

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

I don't know that I can realistically respond to this to my satisfaction

I will say that, gun to head, DBP feels like he belongs in a lot of worlds, and I'm at the same reason as you, EOD stuff

I think the zenith flip will resolve a lot
I think if zenith w, this game gets 48 times easier, because I don't think it can ever be you, and I don't think it can ever be me (but maybe I might already be there in towniness for a lot of people????) and it becomes a lot harder for it to be xel (but not impossible, I'm surprised you're as solid on that grouping of 3)
xel seems to fit as individually scummy outside of that on that operation

freezin wolf stocks fly through the roof in that event, too, maybe even above dbp's

I am not super bothered by his "jerky" read on me, I felt like he was doing the same thing with me that he did with ben (though the fact that he said he would immediately shoot me if he could gave me a small amount of pause before I decided I was on the same idea as I was before)

DBP was also the only person to offer any real defense of what Zenith was saying, saying it could just be uh
I don't want to misrepresent his words
but I think he was essentially saying it could just be Zenith's ego talking, rather than wolfiness
idk man I really hate that idea either way; like it feels like dbp is defending a partner if zenith W, and it feels like dbp is trying to get ahead of the read if scum (this one is weaker, I admit)
but I don't think I can make it look good in my head

idk how much this helps you really but the doorbell just rang, so I'm outta here
I'll try to check in with an hour or so left, there's a chance I'm too "relaxed""" but probably it'll just be me but botchified slightly

anyways that is worded horribly but I gotta go
I'll try really hard to be here later xoxo lets kill zenith ok?

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

I intend to crystallize my thoughts and explain them. maybe it's because today is the first day with less brainfog now that I'm recovering from being sick, but things are making more sense today than they have at any other point in the game before.

I think sunfan is right in the

mechanical lynch on zenith first

before lynching backpack. it isn't as forced as he claims and I'd probably fight it if it was on anyone else, but I'm willing to execute it on zenith. in the extremely unlikely world that zenith is town AND I get NKed, reassess sunfan tomorrow.

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

I wish Zenith would've flipped yesterday and blame myself for wavering. I was tinfoiling too hard on sunfan and his shift to Zenith felt calculated the way he was putting it all on me. it felt like something powerwolf!sunfan would do to fracture town, but outside of Zenith I had nothing stronger than "these people feel ick", so I turned to star because I knew she'd put in way more work than I had at that point. when she moved to HnH I followed because HnH had made some posts that twisted my thoughts specifically and I had called him out as feeling wolfy for slant, but then he posted a reads list of sorts towards the end where he referenced the same thoughts about me (wolfreading me) but in a way that made me think he really believed them and that it wasn't a twist. it was already 8:00 (PDT) and I was gonna stay on HnH but then I saw DBP switch wagons and it screamed WOLF to me so I knew in my gut it was a mislynch and switched while hoping and praying 8:01 wouldn't hit while I was typing the vote

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

it depends on when my friend(s) get here, so
idk
absolute max, 50 minutes or so

rereading EoDs and leaving gut behind for a second, there's a strong structural case against DBP's vote steering / wagon engineering through the two phases. I was trying to see if I could believe a DBP/Zenith w/w world because it felt too.. right, but after D1 I think that's not just possible but likely. I don't have time to make it in 35 minutes, but I'll sit down and explain it after breakfast.

looking for the third wolf is way harder, but in a non tinfoil world based on w/w Zenith/DBP, it looks like it'd be either botchi or Xel, with Xel being I think individually scummier. Freezin has a slight link and probably in this phase has to explain some stuff I was willing to let go yesterday (sudden jerky movement of reads on you and sudden jerky movement of reads on me unexplained by anything other than "actually I believe this now"), but individually I think he's less likely than Xel specifically and more likely than botchi, but how well that fits in the world is unlikely.

I'm summarizing probably sooner than I should because I want your thoughts on worldbuilding before you leave since you said you may not be back in time for EoD

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

sunfan how much time do you have?

it depends on when my friend(s) get here, so
idk
absolute max, 50 minutes or so

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

sunfan how much time do you have?

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

see? it killed all discussion smh

[the sun fan]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

there's genuinely a chance I miss EOD so
I guess I'm dropping this now, but I worry I will kill whatever motivation there was for town solving this phase

no one HAS to read it before like an hour before EOD, Ideally I would time-gate this post and post it then

lastly, this post is null if
a) Zenith gets replaced
b) Zenith comes back and starts posting

otherwise: (only click if you want the phase ruined for you)

We ARE killing Zenith this phase. It is mechanical, not reads based, and it is forced. Zenith's slot, if town, cannot be allowed to enter permanent lylo if we miss today killing someone else. Zenith's slot, if wolf, is great for us to know (but that begins to enter reads). Zenith could have a 0.01% of flipping wolf and it would probably still be correct to kill it today because town needs every single resource in a potential lylo, and Zenith, if town, is unable to fulfil that.

Personally, I think Zenith is rather wolfy, but it has essentially stunted my desire to do much digging this phase once I realized we just
have to kill him in order to get the game properly on track in the worst case scenario.

If someone has an extremely compelling wolf case on someone else, they SHOULD post it. Please do so. It will just have to be examined tomorrow rather than today.

[FreezinIce]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

I'm going to sleep now. My plan is wake up in about 7 hours and try to get some work done before eod crunch happens. Hopefully the reality matches this

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

Question for you then

with the kills:

Raeko -> Star

and lynches:

Benguin -> Hatred

can you layout why you think these night kills apply to those three people, because like

I could entertain bugkid probably the most at a glance for the kills
I couldn't entertain them for the lynches, I feel scum bugkid defends ben more / better as a clean pocket maybe, do we think a wolf openly like

uses a defense post to subtly hint ben should go so blatantly
(I'm quite hung up on that post tbh, might even be a slight tunnel on it going forward.)

Botchi I don't know enough about as a player, I'm fucking lost there
Zenith is sort of like, can we prescribe malice to crashing out and leaving as a wolf with these actions in mind

I dunno if I get there with the star kill hindsight, and that'd be more ballsy than I think this game could handle? Maybe I'm being too nice despite my feelings on Zenith being overwhelmingly low here

I have a game where I almost spent 100-200 posts doing this, but we had at least 1 wolf flip + PRs to reduce the PoE on top of meta reads AND I was a few phases into the game. All together it makes it possible. In this game, picking up a team and being right about everyone feels like a bad joke. That's why I ended up voting DBP Day 0 with the pairings.

I feel like I was in a more interesting place for solving back in Day 0 than now which is weird to say. Now, it just feels like a needle in a haystack.

It feels like a contest of town projection, getting a novelty call, doing a backflip as a performance and voting hoping you picked the right hypothetical mistake on the right player.

Sorry for not answering your question directly, but like..

Ben/H&H struggled with town projection.
Raeko/Star were probably generally town read.

It's not rocket science. The only oddity I have in this game so far on my end are the 2 players I voted. So, if I'm wrong, you guys better tell me where it's at.