Goodbye Framers!

[EAGAMES]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

I'm with EA, Tera and Sprite on this.

R1 is R1. Avemisses have been a part of the game since it was created. Removing them takes the luster away from AAA'ing jacktackular songs like X-Dreamer and Turbulence. And in essence creates an entirely new (and easier) game.

I'm all for including the fix in Third style, But I'd prefer to leave R1 the way it is. To be honest, I'm surprised Synth is allowing these "Fixes" Due to how much he was against fixing Chrono and Synestetic.

Yay, Manti said me first!

Like Manti said, it will make the game a lot easier and each update to the game is making it more like stepmania. Eventually, we will have hands, quads, maybe even holds later on. The only difference is the steps to each song. AAA counts will go booming and so will FCs. Now it's going to be like, " Omg, you FC OMW! ok... like 2354 others have done it too. " or, " No way! You AAA Crowdpleaser! Nice, that song took me a while to AAA too... "

I just don't like this at all. All this time spent whoring these " hard " songs and getting awesome scores, feeling like you did something impossible, feeling accomplished will be nothing anymore. I know that there will be new, way harder songs comming out like FGO week or something but it just won't be the same anymore. It kind of makes me feel like there's no point in playing anymore...

[Cosmic M]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

I just don't get one thing, the admins of this site are all ready to throw avg. misses out the window, but when approached to get rid of the backrounds that cripple the framerate of certain songs, they say no. That makes no sense to me.

Sure, I'm all for keeping backrounds like in Zelda and such where it does not affect the gameplay, but when you have levels like Delirium that are LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE because of it's backround, there needs to be something done about it.

As for the original question, I am for it in theory, but dosn't it put a taint on all scores from here on out. What do we do with people like Shash, Nima and Bahamut who dont play anymore but accomplished great things. Sure, being inactive is your own fault, hell my avg. rank is way better than Shash's at this point, but we all know who's better. We can't let those people simply be forgotten.

EDIT: You know what, after reading more I agree with manti and the others. EAGAMES put it best i think.

[dore]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

I must say I really wish they would keep this new game and the old one separate. Taking out avmisses completely destroys the feel of R1; while it is a nice feature and should be done eventually, it needs to be separate.

You know how there's going to be a separate 2nd and 3rd Style once 3rd Style is released? well they really need to do that now. Keep the "old" 2nd Style as is and leave it to be played as is, and have this 2.5th Style until 3rd Style comes out. But there's no need to destroy the game as we know it when the old game was going to be separate anyway.

[EAGAMES]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

I must say I really wish they would keep this new game and the old one separate. Taking out avmisses completely destroys the feel of R1; while it is a nice feature and should be done eventually, it needs to be separate.

You know how there's going to be a separate 2nd and 3rd Style once 3rd Style is released? well they really need to do that now. Keep the "old" 2nd Style as is and leave it to be played as is, and have this 2.5th Style until 3rd Style comes out. But there's no need to destroy the game as we know it when the old game was going to be separate anyway.

I agree! Also, keep two different ranks for old and new. Also, it would be great if the old scores would be transfered to the new ranks or w/e so we wouldn't have to play every single song over. Eventually 2nd style will be nothing since most are in favor of 3rd style but at least people will be recognized for their efforts. Like Cosmic M stated, people like shash, etc... who aren't active now won't be forgotten.

[EDEdDNEdDYFaN]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

I just don't get one thing, the admins of this site are all ready to throw avg. misses out the window, but when approached to get rid of the backrounds that cripple the framerate of certain songs, they say no. That makes no sense to me.

Sure, I'm all for keeping backrounds like in Zelda and such where it does not affect the gameplay, but when you have levels like Delirium that are LITERALLY UNPLAYABLE because of it's backround, there needs to be something done about it.

As for the original question, I am for it in theory, but dosn't it put a taint on all scores from here on out. What do we do with people like Shash, Nima and Bahamut who dont play anymore but accomplished great things. Sure, being inactive is your own fault, hell my avg. rank is way better than Shash's at this point, but we all know who's better. We can't let those people simply be forgotten.

EDIT: You know what, after reading more I agree with manti and the others. EAGAMES put it best i think.

Low quality on delirium = no lag .

[BigBoss37]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

It's really weird, I tried it out yesterday and got rank 8 on CP first go. Plus top 30 on GGC/Etude first go. It's gonna change scores for sure.

[Ryusei_]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

I must say I really wish they would keep this new game and the old one separate. Taking out avmisses completely destroys the feel of R1; while it is a nice feature and should be done eventually, it needs to be separate.

I disagree 100% with this. Fixing the avemiss bug should be treated just like any other bug. You don't separate the game just because a new bug is fixed. If that was the case, there would have been a separate score listing from back when noteskins weren't available on most songs. If anything, removing the avemiss bug improves the feel of R1, since the avemiss was NOT an intended feature. And it sure as hell shouldn't be treated as one.

[EAGAMES]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

I disagree 100% with this. Fixing the avemiss bug should be treated just like any other bug. You don't separate the game just because a new bug is fixed. If that was the case, there would have been a separate score listing from back when noteskins weren't available on most songs. If anything, removing the avemiss bug improves the feel of R1, since the avemiss was NOT an intended feature. And it sure as hell shouldn't be treated as one.

True but what about all those crazy score people got. All that effort for nothing? Like Big Boss said, he got ranked 8 on Cp for try! It doesn't seem fair.

Congratz Big Boss btw.

[Ryusei_]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

True but what about all those crazy score people got. All that effort for nothing? Like Big Boss said, he got ranked 8 on Cp for try! It doesn't seem fair.

Congratz Big Boss btw.

Like I said before, they should get bragging rights over all of the new scores ("I remember when I did it way back when....") but setting up a completely different scoring system just so they can saves their scores is ridiculous. This can even be brought back to the noteskins, which are a relatively new feature that was always readily accessable in some of the older songs. Many people had problems reading files that weren't skinned properly...And the ones that could had an advantage over them. Then the day skins started appearing, scores immediately improved. Does that mean all the people that got their scores before skins should be saved separate just because of WHEN they did it? No...And that's why they weren't. The same thing should be applied here.

[dore]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

I disagree 100% with this. Fixing the avemiss bug should be treated just like any other bug. You don't separate the game just because a new bug is fixed. If that was the case, there would have been a separate score listing from back when noteskins weren't available on most songs. If anything, removing the avemiss bug improves the feel of R1, since the avemiss was NOT an intended feature. And it sure as hell shouldn't be treated as one.

Yes, but every hard song is affected by avmisses. Therefore, every impressive score on those songs was played with techniques just avoid avmisses, and just as many scores that would be good in this new system were trumped by avmisses.

They already said they were going to keep 2nd Style around after 3rd Style was released because the new game engine (which one of the specific aims was getting rid of avmisses) would render all of the old scores obsolete. Fixing this "bug" similarly renders every score on hard stuff obsolete.

I just want the old system kept around seeing as how the complete overhaul of the game's defining feature (score-wise) will change the way the game is played. I'm not a hardcore oldschool guy (I love speedmods and I'm glad they're implemented into the game, e.g.), but this is a complete change in a different direction, and should be treated as such, not just as a bug fix.

EDIT: Regarding noteskins:
The noteskin changes did not affect the way the game was played. It affects how players see the arrows and helps them hit them properly, but if two players, one playing the non-noteskinned version and one playing the noteskinned version, hit the keys at the exact same time, they would get the exact same judgment. Now, if two people were to hit the exact same keys at the exact same time, one on the old version and one the new, they would not get the same judgment. This is why they should be separate.

[bluguerrilla]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

Jack syndrome forces you to hit an arrow when it is counterintuitive.
Removing said syndrome makes this more of a rhythm game and less
of a "hit the arrow when it looks like it's at a certain point as to avoid
getting a miss that you really shouldn't be getting in the first place" game.

Personally, I like to hit arrows when my ears tell me to and I like that to
match up with what I see on the screen.

I feel that getting rid of avmisses strengthens the game, overall.

Just wait to see the sims that start popping up because of this change.

However, I do see the point of making older efforts obsolete and I'm not
sure what to think about it. I mean, I'm not going to forget but people
that start playing this game without avmisses won't know what the hell
people are talking about...

[-Yukari-]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

I think the difference between fixing avmisses and "fixing" everything else (like blue noteskins, files out of sync, annoying videos, etc) is that the "everything else" category is full of things that technically function correctly. Sure, they may be cheesy, but they're not malicious to the game's functionality.

The avmiss glitch is. FFR never intended jacks (or even streams and chains, in faster BPMs) to do this. It's a part of the game the doesn't work and wasn't intended to be that way. Offbeat files may be offbeat, but Synth "intended" for them to be that way - that is, when he created them, that's what he could come up with at the time, and they still work correctly. You can still AAA them. You can still play the levels with videos. But not really levels with avmisses =/

[Kekeb]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

Time to re-open the "next difficulty name" thread.
FSO, for shash only.

[Ryusei_]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

Yes, but every hard song is affected by avmisses. Therefore, every impressive score on those songs was played with techniques just avoid avmisses, and just as many scores that would be good in this new system were trumped by avmisses.

They already said they were going to keep 2nd Style around after 3rd Style was released because the new game engine (which one of the specific aims was getting rid of avmisses) would render all of the old scores obsolete. Fixing this "bug" similarly renders every score on hard stuff obsolete.

I just want the old system kept around seeing as how the complete overhaul of the game's defining feature (score-wise) will change the way the game is played. I'm not a hardcore oldschool guy (I love speedmods and I'm glad they're implemented into the game, e.g.), but this is a complete change in a different direction, and should be treated as such, not just as a bug fix.

But really, this is STILL 2nd Style. And bugs should be fixed in it rather than waiting around for a new style to come out. And it's not that it renders every score obsolete either. Fixing avemiss will not improve normal PA in anyway....And fixing this bug now makes it so that you have to focus more on PA on those FMO and FGO songs, rather than just hope you FC and get placed up on the highscore list.

[BigBoss37]

Re: Goodbye Framers!

I think they should just start putting in songs like scarhand or disregard to counter this AV fix. Harder songs on FFR would be more fun for the pros.