TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

[Charu]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

Would you frame it on a wall and caption it "The best moments of TWG"?

[Yoshiisland]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

Oh @Xiz, me wanting to target you and you flipping as SK was just pure luck. I honestly did not expect you to flip SK upon our flips.

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

I still think this was one of the rare scenarios a green claiming a blue role is a good play.

If there's one wolf left and one PR left in a pool of 10 players, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE WHATSOEVER for the wolf to claim the PR because it would be autolose. I explicitly explained this so I could potentially tank a wolfkill but Gradiant counterclaimed me anyway. ~_~

I'm going to respond to this kind of a bit longer if I feel like doing so tomorrow but here's why it was bad in this situation.

I absolutely, 100% see what you were going for. I get the reasoning why a wolf would almost never do it in that scenario, but here's why I think Gradiant counterclaiming you is mechanically correct.

firstly, you were asked to back off of the claim by several people, likely in this group of people is the PR, because they are going to be concerned about potential claims, so you should have taken that into consideration.

secondly, I don't actually think you're likely to draw a wolfing there, because if they believe your claim, they're going to shoot into the other players because they don't think they can kill you, meaning that they're more likely to hit the other PR, and then you maybe still get lynched for doing weird/stupid shit claiming roles you're not.

lastly, even if you do get shot, it doesn't really help all that much, because you die instead of living. Yeah, the PR lives, but with your claim (this is assuming that it goes uncounterclaimed), you are a clear townie, meaning that you are kind of a mechanical shot if the wolf doesn't believe your claim of Gregory (meaning they think you might be another PR or not a PR at all).

I think its not the worst play in the world to do it in the beginning of the game, I don't really have a problem with that. I think it was really, really dumb to hardclaim when 4 people ask you not to try and waggle your dick around and you end up doing it anyways.

Part of this bothers me because I saw town lose on DM yet again on Tuesday night when a VT claimed medic to try and save themselves. I've seen it happen a lot lately, and I think you basically need to have a godlike read on the game, or get really, really lucky in order for it to pay off, and I don't think you felt like you had a godlike read on the game.

I get what you were going for, but when you're asked to back off, not backing off was a bad move for you, in my opinion.

[Charu]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

I think it was really, really dumb to hardclaim when 4 people ask you not to try and waggle your dick around and you end up doing it anyways.

Quotable and siggable.

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

fwiw I think mafia are significantly less inclined to believe a player is a PR in that situation you were in Tokzic

I think when they see a town flaunting that they are a pr like that, they're almost never a PR.

I think your range is big enough to where you could've been if you did it like, once a phase or something, but you pushed the issue to hard for it to be realistically believable, and when you claimed a role that couldn't die in the night without being shot twice, I think not many wolves are going to consider shooting you

Xel entirely and wholeheartedly deserved MVP and the win in my mind. Schooled all of us

[dAnceguy117]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

keep in mind that I don't have any context (didn't read teh game), but one more thing on the tokzic play:

last wolf in a pool of 10 living players claiming PR is autolose... only if you assume that the town PR always counterclaims (or dies and flips) before the end of the game. and the PR counterclaim is what caused everything to go south there.

so unless the VT who's fakeclaiming manages to draw the wolfkill, that play doesn't seem to have any potential for positive effects.

[dAnceguy117]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

that being said, from only skimming this postgame, I'm not digging the hivemind "you're terrible" with no reasoning or "you're terrible because look at what happened when you did the thing," which is super small sample size bias. doesn't leave room for discussion.

[Charu]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

You mean only me, right?

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

I think something worth discussing is whether or not phantoms should be the same in every single game

I kind of think it should be up to the mod to decide how phantoms work (assuming they are present) in their own game, but I can see how this could end up creating confusing situations

I'm not really sure which way to go on this and I would like to hear thoughts on the matter

[dAnceguy117]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

You mean only me, right?

nah

[Charu]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

I think something worth discussing is whether or not phantoms should be the same in every single game

I kind of think it should be up to the mod to decide how phantoms work (assuming they are present) in their own game, but I can see how this could end up creating confusing situations

I'm not really sure which way to go on this and I would like to hear thoughts on the matter

Personally, I think the .1 to 1.0 is a better thing to us than 1.1

If it's 1.1... I mean obviously if town loses due to having that handicap, it's on them, but I think this has shown that it makes a huge difference when a scenario like this game is thrown out.

[Charu]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

Since it came down to...

4 players left, insta was at GREATER THAN 2

So because that .1 was there...

boom, auto

[Charu]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

BUUUUUUUUT, still, someone would need to not vote 2 times in a game to have that happen, which is super rare, and they usually deserve it too for being super inactive.

I may never know what backpack was thinking that phase, but... WELP!!

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

the following post is made with the opinion that phantoms do not serve their intended purpose

the purpose of phantoms is to punish inactivity, or at least discourage it

this is supposedly done more effectively by making the downside to inactivity more severe

basically, the above is a load of bullshit, because phantoms do none of that. Inactive people are going to be inactive. Maybe town gets an insta off 1 minute before the deadline to avoid phantoms, but that's really the only case where gameplay is changed because of phantoms, I think.

You do have a point with what you're saying, but even with the extra vote, players are still penalized by having an extra vote on them, and while, statistically speaking, its more likely to be a detriment to town than a detriment to wolves, its an incredibly rare case either way.

Even in games where phantoms aren't on, you should still be voting at least once a phase because it gives town more info later, but I suppose I'm preaching a different point now.

What I'm getting at in a very roundabout way is, I think phantoms are meant to punish inactivity, and in order for this (completely moot) function to happen, a large punishment is required.

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG CLVI: The Grand TWGabout - Postgame

I think there was some interest in jTWG, so I will talk to some people tomorrow and figure out whether to run a jTWG or a turbo while waiting on the next game

I think I will be playing less TWG this semester, or at least that is my goal, as I will be focusing on school (hopefully)