TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

if this ain't a mood

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

this is a very important post

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

this is also important I'm gonna try to read all of their extended interactions if I can, might just put it here since it seems like I'm largely alone

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

ah, it looks like sven might be here
hope the exam went well

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

Exam went great! I lied and I started writing like 30 mins before exam, but I just finished it and here goes:

Okay let me summarize why Haku's rebuttal/cross examination fails brutally before I cross examine him myself

Haku is banking on an impossible sequence of events himself. I already said in D0 that I would be heavily relying on information once it becomes available, and he claims I was already setting up this situation. But that's completely impossible as a wolf (less impossible if I'm a solo hostile 3rd party, but more on that later):

- How do I possibly predict that there will be anything incriminating in the results of phase 1?
- Furthermore, how do I predict that the person who points out how dangerous it is to vote for an non-voting person isn't going to vote themselves?
- How do I even make this play as a wolf tinfoil when I'm already the most pressured player in the game if I'm not ONLY doing so to win the game for town? I appreciate Haku for thinking I would do some crazy play like this, but being the top wagon for 100% of the game, this is not the play as wolf, there are just too many things out of my control.
- Now knowing that Leetic is the wolf, and the fact that we have no idea who each other would be like due to him not being a FFRer, how am I doing all this while he's presumably floundering like a fish in wolfchat, raging and malding, watching me attack the #1 town as a 1st time wolf and getting sus'd out by everyone for it without making me back out of it or getting furiously buss'd?
- How do I genuinely plan for a F3 between me, sunfan and Haku without just praying for it?

People acted like I was forcing the tinfoil or at worst making some insanely convoluted plan, but I'm still a bit furious that y'all didn't see how simple it is:

- Haku says we can't vote Weiss because Weiss hasn't voted and we are guaranteed to take a hit if they're the vengeful spirit
- Haku proceeds not to vote when he can't be around, while he himself established it makes the unvoter completely unlynchable
- He does so after parking a vote on bugkid for the entire previous phase.

I've said it a lot before, and I'm saying it again. It doesn't matter if what Haku says is good when what Haku did is bad. That's why it didn't matter that he wasn't around to defend himself, he can't justify the objective fact that he left the game unvoted – and I didn't even care who his partner was. Actually, MML solved this part for me! When he finally understood what I was even talking about, he said it was only possible if Leetic was his partner. And oh, look what happened! The discussion about unvoting sunfan was between him and Leetic, as MML deduced! I don't know how you can possibly argue that orchestrating this D2 situation all the way back from D1 is less crazy than Leetic and Haku having this relatively low risk plan that would have worked immensely if I wasn't around to point it out, and should Haku fall under sudden scrutiny for whatever reason, Leetic could have just said “wait, if we kill him and he's vengeful, we might lose the game right here”, and the mislynch is pretty much guaranteed there.

It's an absolutely supreme self preservation defense for absent Haku. It seemed too unbeatable for wolf.

I've been in this situation before in a game. Granted, I was a confirmed blue, but I was in a F4 with Charu, DBP and FFA. FFA had succesfully pocketed everyone but his actual voting actions seemed mechanically shady to me, so as soon as I claimed, I was convinced FFA was the wolf. I just had to wait for charu to vote, but as far as I was concerned, I didn't care what FFA could possibly say; he was OBVIOUSLY the wolf due to voting patterns alone and that won us the game. Sunfan, you might know what game I'm talking about, if you do, go look at it. FFA won MVP in it iirc. It was eerily familiar to this exact situation, it's just exactly where I see what you guys don't see in TWG.

Also the idea that attacking Haku because he's gone is just an omega shitty plan I would never do. I wasn't even that gung-ho about it initially, but the fact that everyone was going to dismiss my arguments brought my piss to a boil because the fucking Phoenix Wright momentum music was playing in my mind. Sure, I might have tunnelled too much into it for too much of the phase since I wasn't even willing to look at other players, BUT IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER BECAUSE I WAS RIGHT!

Sunfan is worried that if he makes me win as wolf, I will never let him live it down. If I am wolf, I'm already happy just because I made it this far. If sunfan lynches me, he just plays good and I didn't manage to fool him. If I win, my cold sweat ends. But what he should be afraid off is throwing the fucking game for town here. THAT, I would never let him live down and he would lose all respect from me as far as TWG goes. I fucking deduced the game winning implication with one single observation, and nobody was willing to listen. I feel like it's so painfully obvious right now (and I understand sunfan wants to hesitate and all that and it's ok for him to be cautious in his position), but holy fuck man, don't vote on your emotions here.

As far as the “ah, he's passive, bla bla”, yeah I guess I could have played better but that's pretty much the end of this argument. Everyone is going to have moments that are more difficult to interpret and people are going to weight them sometimes unfairly just because we need to acquire tangible information rather than just keep guessing on intangibles, and yeah my D0 was not good when it comes to self preservation, but I've already gone over this in my D1 start. It's not exactly that I was disinterested in the game, by the way, it's more like I didn't know what the fuck to even do, on top of mismanaging my time completely. I genuinely don't understand how to play D0 seriously and I genuinely don't trust the meta. It's all performative by nature, regardless of your alignment, but I tend not to care about my own defense (and this is true across all games I've played except when I am blue or that one time I rolled SK) because I also qualify as information worthy, and while I'm committed to the game, it's ok if I end up being info fodder for the first phase since someone has to be if we don't straight up lynch a wolf, and I'm not going to be disappointed if I am sacrificed first for that. But there's also a really dumb argument in that this extends to D1, which was the polar opposite. I got back from school, thought about the whole thing for the whole hour it takes to walk from school to my place, and started writing when I got home. Yes it was reactive and didn't factor in psychosocial interactions or whatever (and by the way, I explicitly said it was just commentary anyway), and by the time I wrote the voting list for the explicitly stated benefit of town, I had already clicked on your behavior mechanically. I did offer to continue with my reads after I had food, but this never came on the table because nobody just said “GREAT POINT SVEN” and expanded on it so we could have it on the table and discuss other stuff and instead just started scumreading or dismissing what I thought was a beautiful logical process and I spent the rest of the evening fighting over it being real – I still gave some small read stuff after it was requested by MML and ara, but otherwise all I got from my brilliant moment was oppression. This context is obviously omega important and you obviously didn't come to my defense over it.

Haku didn't even address the him and leetic implication after MML pointed out that it was the one team that made sense and it's now revealed that leetic was in fact his partner. He didn't even address my logic at all and just said “nah it's fucking impossible he could foresee all this” when IT'S REALLY NOT THAT CONVOLUTED TO BEGIN WITH MAN. At worst you could have said not claiming was a misplay, but you actually tried to double down on it by saying you wanted to spread the fact that you didn't trust your reads, but if that was the case, you didn't need to park your vote on sunfan with leetic's approval to begin with!? If you saw why leetic voted on sunfan as a town, you would immediately know this vote is a literal meme and leetic would automatically unvote it upon saying what you did, you only don't do that if you want to end up unvoted anyway, and considering that leetic has flipped, it's even more incriminating!

Haku misrepresented and recontextualized me and you can do that with any alignment. I appreciate that he's tried to save it, but like, I could do the same to you, sunfan was literally doing it on D1 as the one guy who actually listened to me and understood me.

Haku claims Leetic tried to save me in D0 when leetic literally was trying to put me in insta range but bugkid was insta'd before he could post. Haku didn't mention the D1 endgame because it's the nail in his coffin where Leetic goes “Look at me, I'm bussing Hate, wow we're partners” after trying to pocket me the whole game. I assume he wanted sunfan to see this and kill me, but that failed hilariously

Also I think I figured out why you killed Ara: it's because you thought Greg would kill me! Then, you'd have the F3 with Sunfan and with MML's imbalanced support of leetic and his disproportionate dislike of me while sunfan and you both defended me, it was a very easy F3!

There is literally no argument that I'm wolfing here. I know that you know, Greg. It's ok for Haku to have tried, I respect that he did, but this game is GG.

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

Sunfan, I'm ready to check the shit haku said today but read the previous thing first. I have some homeworking to do so I want to know if you even need it

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

I keep meaning to say this; I realized this somewhere along the end of the last day phase, but I got the Chinese proverb wrong when talking about Haku

the one I was looking for was "Gentlemen who part ways for even three days will undergo change"

is this important?
I think so

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

it's enlightening

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

it literally feels like what's happened with haku for the non-Quebec folks
Haku appears to have leveled up his game somehow since ffr hasn't had any games
maybe we just all forgot

idk

I just wanna say two quick things, then I'm gonna read the end of the first phase again and I'll probably vote after that

1) regardless of whether you are town or mafia, the push on haku last phase, with the reasoning provided, was excellent

2) your most recent wallpost, regardless of whether you are town or mafia, was excellent

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

ok actually yes this is the most important post of the game
this was right after insta was triggered; leetic tried to swing it back onto sven, something he never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever does as sven's partner

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

haku

if wolves went full bus mode for no reason when there was a perfectly good bugkid kill right there, so be it, your silliness wins you the game

sven's play is just uber townie in ways that I think are just like
close to impossible to be faked

I've tried to get off of haku as much as I can; there's modicums of information here and there, I just can't do it

I am sorry to raeko for the n1 shot, I was selfish and I have chastised people many times for failing to shoot counterwagons and then I go and do that so
sorry

gg regardless

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

Game over, wolves win

Post game will happen in a bit, have stuff to do before work

Re: TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

In all honesty Sun, shooting me there was the correct choice because most of the time no one takes me seriously due to the Leetic read

Like I get it

Anyway GG wolves, Leetic just preemptively trying to bus really sold the plan