TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

@Haku

@MML

since you're both here and neither of you seem like you want to actually thunderdome and prove the other scum / your own towniness

Can both of you please share your thoughts on every other player alive?

Might as well prevent anti-spew and get the real cop's thoughts if we're not getting a thunderdome

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

hope everyone's having a nice holiday

i'm having a good headache thanks for asking

i feel some amount like chopped liver over my posts earlier this phase getting rather little attention, but at this point i'd understand if people don't want to interact with me and that's fine i guess

sorry about that. i'd rather we actually talk to each other if you've got thoughts though, that's how the game is played after all

i guess that's more for successive days

this game state is easy to be complacent in and i'm kinda feeling it - although more generally it's one of those days where opening up a twg thread doesn't feel great to me. bleah

If you're still around (I get the blegghh feeling but IF you're still around) do you mind going over my Haku ISO and giving me a sanity check? Don't bother telling me I'm tunneling on Raeko lol just check my thoughts on Haku

[star-crossed]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

Haku (1)- MML
MML (2)- Haku, Gradiant
unvote-

[MixMasterLar]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

I'll be transparent and say that Raeko's post saying she liked MML's tone made me apprehensive about lynching MML, because I'd expect her to go for some townpoints by trying to highlight something scummy about her partner.

I might not have been motivated to ISO Haku if that post hadn't made me worry

I guess this is all irrelevant if Raeko's town, but that world is just... idk

I would bet my lunch Raeko is town

Haku is obviously being couched and I don't see Raeko doing that.

I'm biasedly going to say I like Yosh's post on me the least so that he's Haku's partner, and that if I was in final 3 with Yosh this game i vote him 100% of the time over Raeko

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

Read my entrance knowing I'm Town Cop. It should make more sense.

"I won't stand for commentary" raised my eyebrow as unexpectedly harsh coming from Haku. Is there a historical anti-commentary meta from Haku? because this is the first I hear of it for such a strong stand he's making.

I loss to WV before where he was just sitting back and doing nothing the entire game. Normally I town read WV based on him indirectly trying to do something meaningful to the push the game in some direction.

I didn't see that this game. It was mostly just filler and that contradiction about him reading/not reading his own posts related to MML.

Even at this point I don't know what he was trying to do.

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

I'm remembering "F3" in BOATS where I wasn't looking forward to having to decide between Xiz and.. roundbox (?) in F3 and then I woke up and they had both shot each other and town won.

Why can't everything end like that

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

I'll be transparent and say that Raeko's post saying she liked MML's tone made me apprehensive about lynching MML, because I'd expect her to go for some townpoints by trying to highlight something scummy about her partner.

I might not have been motivated to ISO Haku if that post hadn't made me worry

I guess this is all irrelevant if Raeko's town, but that world is just... idk

[ShadoWolfe]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

Quick summary: On ISO, Haku doesn't look so hot. There's a bunch of times this game where there seems to be a clear filter he's forcing on himself in his posts. Whether that filter is from him wolfing and trying to seem natural or whether it's because he's the real cop remains to be seen, but I lean towards the former after reading thru.

Considering this is D0 and how many people I've seen while being online after work; I can pmuch tell I won't be leading this game.

I guess I will mostly just echo feedback as the game goes on and try to fetch what I think will make a difference.

For his first post in this game, this post betrays a mindset unnaturally focused on how he's going to play/post. He sets up a posting style (don't lead, echo feedback, bring up relevant posts) and surprisingly doesn't err from it in retrospect.

Hey, I'm back.

Time to be uncertain about which posts I'm supposed to answer.

Here again his focus in coming to thread is how he's going to post. While uncertainty is an expected staple of Haku's game, "time to be uncertain" and "supposed to answer" do more to showcase a filter on his play than they actually show uncertainty. Almost like he's reminding himself to be uncertain.

I'd tend to wait it out on that and try to see if there's not something easier to figure out tbh.

In response to star asking me to argue about views on Raeko. Follows this up with:

Yeah, okay, no. I won't stand for commentary / non committal playstyle.

wayward vagabond

"I won't stand for commentary" raised my eyebrow as unexpectedly harsh coming from Haku. Is there a historical anti-commentary meta from Haku? because this is the first I hear of it for such a strong stand he's making.

So, basically we're waiting for Shado's input at this stage ?

This struck me as odd when it first happened, and age has not helped it mature. One thing I don't like about Haku's game this game is that *normally* his posting feels FREE and unrestricted. Even during night phases as town, he brainstorms world after world regardless of how realistic they are and doesn't hold back his posts.

Here, not only is there a filter on *what* he's posting, but he doesn't even brainstorm when there's a lull in dayphase? Instead, "we're waiting for Shado's input at this stage ?"

Actually, who have you played before here and who are you comfortable reading ?

I'm like really curious because it's my first game with him.

This only became weird once Antori flipped wolf. Here, he's asking Antori which players he's familiar with and so on. The first post is an absolutely standard question that wouldn't raise any flags no matter who asked it.

He immediately followed it up with a justification, though: "I'm *like really curious* because it's my first game with *him*."

That first post requires no justification, and the "like really" emphasis on "curious" combined with the "him" rather than "you" means he's addressing that justification to us. It's not to get Antori to answer his question, it's to make sure everyone knows how curious he is about who Antori's played with.

[inDheart]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

hope everyone's having a nice holiday

i'm having a good headache thanks for asking

i feel some amount like chopped liver over my posts earlier this phase getting rather little attention, but at this point i'd understand if people don't want to interact with me and that's fine i guess

sorry about that. i'd rather we actually talk to each other if you've got thoughts though, that's how the game is played after all

i guess that's more for successive days

this game state is easy to be complacent in and i'm kinda feeling it - although more generally it's one of those days where opening up a twg thread doesn't feel great to me. bleah

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

I think town MML would be more enthusiastic about being in a thunderdome with me because I don't really tend to pressure players much in a 1v1 scenario.

I'd expect him to just rain quotes and laugh about how it's obvious wolf haku here etc.

Seeing him being content with just reacting to my posts and mentioning volume over wolfy stuff is not good.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

I think the fact that Haku was afraid of engaging me because he didn't want to indict himself speaks volumes.

I'm just picturing you saying "No, you're wrong; You should know better" every single thing I would post to the point that it's discouraging to want to directly engage you if it doesn't serve a purpose.

What do you gain from interacting directly with me ?

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

I'm thinking of my own meta mostly and how I would react and have reacted in the past, while being in the middle of a claim solving situation. From the angle of the PR it's hard not to think your own softs were good etc because you know that you are telling the truth, so you look at everything from that angle. Your case seems more solid than it really is because you know the solution. and it can be hard to put your mind into the zone that everyone else is in

I don't know if that's a good way to explain it, but yeah.

Not really. It's as simple as knowing that the others don't know that I know he's wolfing.

Lar is a wolf in my eyes because his play doesn't feel authentic, it feels like it plays to a narrative, and he's dodged things and provocations in a way I don't think he usually does, especially when someone outright says come at me and he doesn't, particularly because of the context of where it happens in the game.

btw, Xel had the right idea overall in terms of describing what's off.

[mellon_collie]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

I want you to describe what you mean by that because all I see is someone sitting back and hoping I derp or find nothing conclusive while investigating.

I'm thinking of my own meta mostly and how I would react and have reacted in the past, while being in the middle of a claim solving situation. From the angle of the PR it's hard not to think your own softs were good etc because you know that you are telling the truth, so you look at everything from that angle. Your case seems more solid than it really is because you know the solution. and it can be hard to put your mind into the zone that everyone else is in

I don't know if that's a good way to explain it, but yeah.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

Interacting with MML for me is detrimental because we're both forced to defend opposite stances at this point.

It's just going to make both of us look bad.

It's more win/win to either iso each others or find connections that would incriminate the other.

[Hakulyte]

Re: TWG CLXXXV: C9+++++++++ Game Thread

Kinda liking Lar's attitude here. It reminds me of myself when I'm thunderdoming as a PR

I want you to describe what you mean by that because all I see is someone sitting back and hoping I derp or find nothing conclusive while investigating.

No one would argue that what your posting is mechanically more insightful then anything Haku posts d0 in the history of ever (I love you Haku but you just shine better later on) but I think what Haku is fixated on and the manner he's going about it is telling specifically for him and his meta


That said I believe that giving general thoughts about Haku d0 is pure easy-mode and I was under the assumption that you knew Haku better then to really see anything worth commenting. That said, I will concede its been awhile for you too and you may not really hold that view.

Still What Haku says tells me about what he sees his role as where yours really didn't leave much of an impression other then d0 thoughts. Which is fine; it's much more then some people give on d0 and all that can be asked but I think it's funny you would call Haku's padding because at the end of the game your d0 thoughts are d0 thoughts.

Hence, your post is closer to padding then his.

If you want to see that remake of mine black/white (as you have accused me of doing to Haku's post) and read that as "He's calling my post padding!"....well, I'd say I don't think I would disagree with that assessment either, but again if it's been awhile since you've played with Haku and you're trying to reset the meta read then I'll concede your post serves a better purpose.

But I'll spoil the fun right now and you that Haku is still extremely easy to solve. He's the one d0 read I always nail right. I understand if what works for me isn't a good reason for you but that's where I am on him. Mechanics / slips would have to be made before I really think what he posted came from WolfHaku.

Annoyed to read this, but I guess I can't do much about it because others don't know 100% why it's so confidently coming from nowhere.