TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

[Viccica]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

Really bad read... Right. You keep saying that.

Back it up sometime.

[Viccica]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

Like just saying 'that's bad logic' isn't enough. Defend yourself, say why it's a bad read.

[DarkManticoreX2]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

I'm still particularly suspicious of DarkManticore because he hasn't offered much input as to who he thinks is a wolf, his posts are fairly short and usually talk about what he thinks about the game itself rather than the players, and like I said before, he seems to be using his play-style as a defense to be less careful of offering his own suspicions.

For those who don't feel like finding the post.

drizzle, the reason a lot of my initial posts seem to be "Short and talk about the game itself instead of the players" is because as far as any game is concerned, when you have an innocent child or a confirmed blue on day 1, it doesn't matter who the player is, that person should not weigh in very heavily in the decision making process untill every one else has. This is to prevent people from following their lead and hiding in their shadow.

In most games, I could care less about the players. I don't catch my wolves through activity changes in one game to the next, or through knowledge of how a particular player plays. I catch them through wide swings in their thought process in one game or disconnects to the other players in their post process.

As per your last point, my playstyle is natually defensive because I usually get wolved very early. Wolves don't like to challenge themselves and let me last through a game because they're scared of me. It is my hope other people become threats to the wolves early game and the wolves bypass killing me to take out someone who's hurting them worse. This allows me to be more effective because I am given time to network people together.

My playstyle is selfish. You might not like it. I don't care. Ask anyone here who's played a game with me, my playstyle is effective and I nail wolves more then 50% of the time. That makes me a bad day 1 lynch target.

[dAnceguy117]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

to clarify my thoughts on Xiz a lil' bit

YMIA describes into detail his reasoning to his best ability and his thoughts on individuals up until my question where he seems to choke.

(I advise clicking the arrow to jump to the full post. It's pretty involved.)

This logic is agreeable on the surface. It highlights a factual behavioral change and calls it "wolfy." I don't agree that a wolf would suddenly start giving short responses instead of longer ones after being prodded or called out, though. To me, this is the kind of thing that a wolf can dig through the thread to find and draw a star next to and use as ammo. Really similar to what Tps has been doing in my opinion.

So yeah, for me, slight wolf lean on Xiz. He wouldn't be a priority lynch if I had complete say over everything though.

[dAnceguy117]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

Like just saying 'that's bad logic' isn't enough. Defend yourself, say why it's a bad read.

Bad read =/= bad logic. Obviously I know your read is wrong. Just based on the lack of votes on me, I assume not many others have been thinking along the same lines. It's just generally a bad wolf strategy to pick highly contentious vote targets.

That said, reread my vote posts. All votes are serious to the extent that you're putting someone one step closer to death, but look at the content in each one. I was pushing a lot of buttons with not a whole lot of force. Then I found what I believe to be a good lead, and my vote has stayed in one place. I've made a few posts clarifying my position and trying to prod for info out of Tps. Hardly wishy-washy in my opinion.

[Vendetta21]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

Most of what fiction has said is useless because he isn't connecting it to an attempt to kill someone. An excellent and attention-commanding opening, but I find us no closer to pushing for a kill after all this haute air.

Again, I think it would behoove most people to review the point in the game where TPS raged at me for asking for clarification on his "gut instinct." Do the thing fiction is asking you to do where you "dig deeper."

Also think about this: TPS actions were so fuckin wolfy that he had to apologize to me and change his tone completely. But very few people are even curious about him and some people are even defending him via proxy. (Fiction saying I am typically wrong) Also the lack of momentum in the thread should urge you to reevaluate your leads, the number of people focusing on YMIA says that the lynch there is dubious, and the lack of people considering TPS says the opposite.

You should always remember that the wolves, while they haven't had private communication yet, are still aware of each other and do pick up on obvious cues with that knowledge that we don't. When you see this level of tip-toeing and indifference about a day end lynch you should begin to question people's proxy attacks and proxy defenses, as those things are trying to set up a phase end.

I shine on day 1 more than any other day because I get to watch people's self conceptions in a vacuum. This is why in like 3 of the last 6 standard human games I've played I have lynched red.

The tempo of this thread is one of humans self-emmersing in their own confusion, directionless pushes, and this really easy Boolean decision right in front of you.

You could vote for YMIA, as TPS directs "because he doesn't want to play anyways"

Or you could vote for TPS who has tunnel visioned YMIA for reasons he has still been unable to fully articulate, who has only really considered others in relation to YMIA or if they were attacking him.

And he repeated one of his wolf behaviors almost exactly from last game. He insulted my ability at this game to diminish my credibility while I was voting for him.

I don't know what the fuck else you guys are trying to find on day 1, or what you believe about wolfy behavior, but this is it. And you lynch this.

[yo man im awesome]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

For the record, because I wasn't replaced right away, I've basically given up on that. I am still going to play. I'm going to at least try to make a better effort throughout the game. I'm getting less time on the computer now because my sister started using it to emulate Suikoden or something.

Need to do a little catching up on reading it seems.

[yo man im awesome]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

given up on that mentality of quitting*

[evanescence_death4ever]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

In the case of Drizzt and Eva, I think they're acting how I did when I first started. No real idea where to start and unsure of what to do. It's natural to be uncertain since they've not really played here before. Drizzt has sound logic but lacks conviction (like I said before) which is pretty normal. Not many people come in acting like they own the place.

Eva seems like she's lost interest to me, which is kind of fair. 19 page day 1 and all and mostly just discussion happening around her as opposed to to her.

I apologize for my lack of posting. I actually have seen nothing worth posting about for the past day or so. Maybe this kind of game just isn't for me =/

I'm going to keep playing though, hopefully I'm not dead weight the whole game.

[FictionJunction]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

Most of what fiction has said is useless because he isn't connecting it to an attempt to kill someone. An excellent and attention-commanding opening, but I find us no closer to pushing for a kill after all this haute air.

I'm reading the thread eventually and casting a vote

[Tps222]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

I've traditionally been a very poor human. I don't operate well when my communication is confined solely to the thread. Generally I like to discuss and clarify ideas with people behind the scenes first (ala Jrodd last game) and then bide my time and post when I feel the opportune moment has arrived.

C9++ is currently very difficult for me. My performance this game has been as poor at being human as it excelled at being a wolf last game.

Is there anything I can do to reaffirm my position as vanilla townie? I don't think I can construct a better set of points on limited data than I have already, and I haven't seen any significantly better alternatives presented that I would hop on instead.

Here's a recap on my YMIA positioning:

Quote:
Originally Posted by yo man im awesome View Post
lmfao Yoshl he asked me what I thought of Jrodd, not you.



Unless of course there was another post that I missed.

Anyhow, I feel relatively the same way as Yoshl, although I'm slightly less suspicious. He's being veerry fluffy with his posts, but I really don't think he's trying to hide anything, at least I don't think so yet.

However, I am extremely curious about Manti. He's had a whopping total of 3 posts in the thread, but he's very clearly been in the thread. Are you intentionally not posting? Are you trying to UTR us? If you are in fact trying to pull your usual stunt as a wolf with your UTR play I personally wouldn't hesitate to lynch you.

Manti, anything for us?

Wow, that's a piggyback post if I've ever seen one, Manti already has posted since I placed the initial call-out vote. You know Manti lurks and gathers intel, defines frameworks of play, and calls people out who deviate from it. I made my vote purely to get some day 1 information from him, just in case we need to go back and analyze it in the future.

A wolf should be attempting to present valid human strategies, agree with the general flow of posts, and cast a vote on someone he knows needs to be lynched. YMIA is checking off each of those. Also, my gut is just screaming wolf to me and I'm going to start trusting my intuition more. Yoman.

I define a "strong gut reaction" as an intrinsic and intangible feeling that arises when I read a post and just feel something from it.

It's not good reasoning at all, i'm already fully aware of that. I'm also clear-headed about this.

My vote on Manti was literally only staying as long as it took him to post -anything-. What he said didn't matter as much as forcing him to be out of his element and make an appearance/provide insight into his mindset in a situation where he normally wouldn't. I was appeased and moved on.

I'm perfectly content with leaving my vote on YMIA for as long as it takes for me to find someone else more suspicious, with actual reasoning.

Here are some posts from YMIA that create a thread linking V and YMIA together:

Well that was nice of you V. We do want people to stay here, you know?

Nice dissociation tactic.

Don't worry about the aggressiveness of V, Eva, he's like that with just about everybody, its nothing personal

Again. Notice going to the defense of a new player here and in a post in the future; an easy way to gain human credibility points.

oh, I didn't random yet.

Uhh

Viccica

Similar lynch target as V. (With just as credible reasoning)

Besides all that circumstantial shit, here is what really tipped me off:

Anyway. Eva, you want to convince everyone that your a Town player, aka the good team. It can be tough, as there is suspicion on everyone, but claiming a role is perfectly acceptable

An attempt to slyly fish out blues. JRodd calls him out for this and he responds:

originally Posted by j-rodd123 View Post
are you advocating claiming a power role right now?

Depends on the role I guess, but no. I was just explaining that's its better to be perceived as town rather than wolf by the majority, no?

Stating the obvious as a defense against his intentions.

The post that made me cast my vote:

Anyhow, I feel relatively the same way as Yoshl, although I'm slightly less suspicious. He's being veerry fluffy with his posts, but I really don't think he's trying to hide anything, at least I don't think so yet.

However, I am extremely curious about Manti. He's had a whopping total of 3 posts in the thread, but he's very clearly been in the thread. Are you intentionally not posting? Are you trying to UTR us? If you are in fact trying to pull your usual stunt as a wolf with your UTR play I personally wouldn't hesitate to lynch you.

Manti, anything for us?

The 2nd paragraph is literally a rephrasing of previously stated opinions in the thread. It's entirely possible that he simply just agrees with the sentiment, but that brought it up to 3 votes on Manti, hardly necessary to prove his point. Also, he's acting as if he has never played a game with Manti in his life, and fails to recognize that 3 posts in day 1 is par for the course for Manti (the same can be said about Vicc, and YMIA/V have already pushed that button).

I think that's a pretty good display of where my mind is at. I made this post because I felt a bit dickish by the end of my last one.

I'm pretty comfortable sticking to those points for a day 1 lynch, in addition to his request to be removed (Which I won't assume is a townie-motivated request).

@V: A wolf should be attempting to present valid human strategies, agree with the general flow of posts, and cast a vote on someone he knows needs to be lynched. YMIA is checking off each of those. Also, my gut is just screaming wolf to me and I'm going to start trusting my intuition more. Yoman.

I don't know how you can say I haven't provided any explanation for my belief.

[Tps222]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

I apologize for my lack of posting. I actually have seen nothing worth posting about for the past day or so. Maybe this kind of game just isn't for me =/

I'm going to keep playing though, hopefully I'm not dead weight the whole game.

Don't lose hope! This variant of the game is a bit slower than a traditional TWG (and a few of us don't completely enjoy it's mechanics). The real reason it's played is because it hammers home the idea of TWG fundamentals. Reading people's posts and the flow of the thread, and determining from solely that information who is a wolf and who isn't.

A more traditional game should be played next at a faster pace so that people like eva and drizz can get a taste of the fun of it, without the stupid long 7 day phases of no activity that you all seem to love for some reason. Also, AIM.

[Vendetta21]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

This game has done a lot to teach people how to play better we usually just have outcomes that are less dry so early, and vocal members need to move the game forward.

[FictionJunction]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

if everyone is struggling to find someone to vote for why not just vote for me and be done with it??

[Viccica]

Re: TWG XCVIII: A bunch of people in a room playing mafia

If that's the case then yoman would be better because he's trying to leave anyway. But I don't know if I'm okay with that because if TPS is human, when he gets a vicegrip on a lynch for someone, it's usually wrong. xD