TWG Game Building Thread

[_Zenith_]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

I guess here is a game idea that can be collectively worked on:

12/13 players
-insert rules by host here-
Point system

Game would work normally with no confusing roles that aren't in main setups
If a player dies, they can no longer generate points, but they can still talk. They cannot do anything they would normally be able to do (on their faction) if they were still alive (voting, in particular), which would still push the insta limit lower as players "die off".

1.5 points for each wolf alive per day
0.5 points for each town member alive per day

The game would end as soon as the first team reaches say 25 points or if a faction can no longer generate points.

If this game idea does take off and someone wanted to add a Third Party, then:

5 points for each day a third party survives
2.5 if there are two third party members (masons)
If Cult, 1 point per day that Cult Leader is alive, 0.5 point for subsequent members
Third Parties can win the game on their own by just surviving, ending the game as soon as their faction hits 25 points.

None of the numbers above are concrete in any way shape or form and are subject to change (obviously). Just a rough idea going off from Rzr's point system stuff.

[roundbox]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

Musical chairs sounds interesting. There's a game of TWG past that might be worth checking out (Time Travelers, hosted by the old DiscoBobbyPARANOiA).

I should make a BSG themed TWG, that would be great
but I want to make a Phoenix Wright one as well

[rzr]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

I like that idea, Zenith. A countdown would create a feasible goal. The point system may need to be altered - and I'm horrible with that shit. Perhaps, if scum can gain 5 points per wolf per living day then having a PR that gained <.5, I dunno. But I will have a version of this for the next sign ups just inc case.

In this case, I think OOT would also be extremely interesting and helpful for the role swapping

[roundbox]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

TWG to the Turnabout

Order! Order! Order, I said! There seems to be a new case arriving in my courtroom today. However, the lists for Prosecution and Defense doesn't seem to be coming with it.

TWG to the Turnabout is a semi-open setup. 13 players can join this game.

General Mechanics
Day Start
24-Hour start delay
Cardflipping: ON
OOTC: OFF (Minus factional wolf chat)
Night talking: OFF

Voting Mechanics
Phantoms: ON
KitB: ON
Must Lynch: ON

Roles
All of the greatest lawyers and their witnesses were invited to take on the case of Justin Toeburn. The accused was allegedly responsible for the murder of Molly Mayor, his co-worker. Unfortunately, due to an unrelated incident in the mailroom, court summons requests for witnesses and lawyers were either lost or destroyed. Some, however, made it to their destination.
Only 5 letters made it to their destinations. 2 Attorneys (and affiliates) and 3 Prosecutors (and affiliates) received an invitation to come to court. 8 other letters did arrive, but they were to non-important witnesses. Shame.

2 Attorneys
3 Prosecutors
8 Unimportant witnesses (Vanilla town)

Two of the following attorneys (or affiliates) received a letter of invitation, but we don't know which! Two of the following attorneys will be chosen at random.

Defense Roles
Phoenix Wright - The Truth Seeker: Finding the truth is the ultimate goal for you, Phoenix Wright. Wielding Maya's magatama, you are able to check the alignment of a player every night.

Maya Fey - The Spirit Medium: As a member of the Fey clan, you possess a great talent. As the next successor of the Kurain Channeling Technique, your abilities are almost unbelieveable to many. During night, you may summon one of two spirits to aid you.
Mia Fey:
-The spirit of your late sister, Mia Fey, known as one of the greatest attorneys to live. Her ability is so powerful that channeling her spirit will let you protect any player at night from a conviction (death).
Ms. Miney:
-The spirit of revenge. Ms. Miney will gladly be channeled, but will stain your hands in blood. Channeling Ms. Miney will give you a one-shot conviction (kill) during at night. Afterwards, you will lose the ability to channel Mia and you will be seen as guilty if checked with the magatama.

Miles Edgeworth - The Inheritor: After some reminiscence of your father's last case and revelation of the corrupt nature of the prosecution office, you decided to take footsteps in the path your father chose. At night, you may choose a player to take to the detention center (jail) for questioning. Your target cannot be convicted and cannot attempt to convict another player. Additionally, you may choose to make your target loved (-1 net votes) or hated (+1 net votes). Cannot exist if the prosecution version is rolled.

Trucy Wright - The Magician: It's the amazing Mr. Hat! Can one of the greatest magic tricks of all time save you again? It just may! Once this game, you may place a trap version of Mr. Hat with any player. Any players who attempt to convict (kill) your target will be instead be convicted themselves.

Ema Skye - The Scientist: SCIENCE! Your love for mixing science with justice lets you try out different chemical compounts. Pregame, you may select which chemical set to use. Set A will grant you Watching abilities (choose a target at night to see who visits them). Set B will grant you Tracking abilities (choose a target at night to see who they visit).



Two of the following prosecutors (or affiliates) received a letter of invitation, but we don't know which ones got their letters either! One prosecutor, Winston Payne, has RSVP'd to the case. He is simply a Vanilla Prosecutor. Two of the following prosecutors will be chosen at random.

Manfred von Karma - The Forger: A perfect record. A perfect case. These are the foundations of the von Karmas, and you uphold them to the highest standard. To maintain the perfect case for this new trial, you may forge evidence. During pregame, you may select a non-wolf player. That player will show up as guilty to all checks and visit every night kill scene.

Franziska von Karma - The Lasher: Your ferociousness in court is unmatched. Your enemies leave with welts and scars at the wrath of the prodigious youth of the von Karma clan. Every night, you may select a target to attack with your whip, roleblocking them.

Miles Edgeworth - The Nemesis: After losing your father at a young age, you lost all belief that defense lawyers could be good people. Finding satisfaction in the conviction (death) of attorneys, you will gain voting power for each convicted attorney. You gain .1 (total 1.1) power for the first and 1 (total 2) for the second. Cannot exist if the attorney version is rolled.

Matt Engarde - The Deceiver: Refreshing like a spring breeze. At least, that's what you want everyone to think about you. You are a master wolf until you make the conviction (night kill).

Kristoph Gavin - The Manipulator: A defense attorney gone corrupt, you possess the power to manpiulate others by careful planning. Once in the game, you may call up one of your connections. Your connection will enable your kill to be strongmanned (surpasses roleblock and protection) OR ninjad (unable to be tracked/watched).



Other information
Follows standard action resolution
Wolves must choose which member of the team is conducting the kill



Here are the PM templates:

Welcome, [Player Name], you are an Unimportant Witness. We didn't quite catch your name, but we'll be sure to write it down later if we need you for questioning.
Abilities:Your weapon is your vote, you have no night actions.
Win condition:You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Phoenix Wright - The Truth Seeker: Finding the truth is the ultimate goal for you, Phoenix Wright.
Abilities:
Wielding Maya's magatama, you are able to check the alignment of a player every night.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Maya Fey - The Spirit Medium: As a member of the Fey clan, you possess a great talent. As the next successor of the Kurain Channeling Technique, your abilities are almost unbelievable to many.
Abilities:
During night, you may summon one of two spirits to aid you.
Mia Fey:
-The spirit of your late sister, Mia Fey, known as one of the greatest attorneys to live. Her ability is so powerful that channeling her spirit will let you protect any player at night from a conviction (death).
Ms. Miney:
-The spirit of revenge. Ms. Miney will gladly be channeled, but will stain your hands in blood. Channeling Ms. Miney will give you a one-shot conviction (kill) during at night. Afterwards, you will lose the ability to channel Mia and you will be seen as guilty if checked with the magatama.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Miles Edgeworth - The Inheritor: After some reminiscence of your father's last case and revelation of the corrupt nature of the prosecution office, you decided to take footsteps in the path your father chose.
Abilities:
At night, you may choose a player to take to the detention center (jail) for questioning. Your target cannot be convicted and cannot attempt to convict another player. Additionally, you may choose to make your target loved (-1 net votes) or hated (+1 net votes).
Cannot exist if the prosecution version is rolled. You are the real deal.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Trucy Wright - The Magician: It's the amazing Mr. Hat! Can one of the greatest magic tricks of all time save you again? It just may!
Abilities:
Once this game, you may place a trap version of Mr. Hat with any player. Any players who attempt to convict (kill) your target will be instead be convicted themselves.
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Ema Skye - The Scientist: SCIENCE! Your love for mixing science with justice lets you try out different chemical compounds.
Abilities:
Pregame, you may select which chemical set to use. Set A will grant you Watching abilities (choose a target every night to see who visits them). Set B will grant you Tracking abilities (choose a target every night to see who they visit).
Win condition:
You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated and there is at least one town player alive.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Winston Payne, a regular ole prosecutor along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]).
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Win condition:
You win when the Prosecution obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Manfred von Karma - The Forger:, a prosecutor along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). A perfect record. A perfect case. These are the foundations of the von Karmas, and you uphold them to the highest standard. To maintain the perfect case for this new trial, you may forge evidence.
Abilities:
During pregame, you may select a non-wolf player. That player will show up as guilty to all checks and visit every night kill scene.
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.

Win condition:
You win when the Prosecution obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Franziska von Karma - The Lasher:, a prosecutor along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). Your ferociousness in court is unmatched. Your enemies leave with welts and scars at the wrath of the prodigious youth of the von Karma clan.
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Every night, you may select a target to attack with your whip, roleblocking them.
Win condition:
You win when the Prosecution obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Miles Edgeworth - The Nemesis:, a prosecutor along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). After losing your father at a young age, you lost all belief that defense lawyers could be good people.
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Finding satisfaction in the conviction (death) of attorneys, you will gain voting power for each convicted attorney. You gain .1 (total 1.1) power for the first and 1 (total 2) for the second.
Cannot exist if the attorney version is rolled. You are the real deal.
Win condition:
You win when the Prosecution obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Matt Engarde - The Deceiver:, a prosecutor along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). Refreshing like a spring breeze. At least, that's what you want everyone to think about you.
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
You are a master wolf until you make the conviction (night kill).
Win condition:
You win when the Prosecution obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Welcome, [Player Name], you are Kristoph Gavin - The Manipulator:, a prosecutor along with your partner(s), [Player Name] (and [Player Name]). A defense attorney gone corrupt, you possess the power to manpiulate others by careful planning.
Abilities:
Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.
Once in the game, you may call up one of your connections. Your connection will enable your kill to be strongmanned (surpasses roleblock and protection) OR ninjad (unable to be tracked/watched).
Win condition:
You win when the Prosecution obtain a majority or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Thoughts?

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

Trucy Wright is OP is the main thing.

Might be cool if the prosecutors know what roles the defense has, it would let them make better decisions pregame but it might be broken idk.

Maya getting red-checked after making a kill doesn't really matter imo. Its not unbalanced or anything, its just that if there's 2 kills in a night, which there likely will be if Maya makes a kill, then its likely that she'll be able to confirm herself just based off of that.

The numbers seem balanced, and I can live with or without the prosecution knowing what roles the defense has, but Trucy really needs to be changed imo, for a few very strong reasons.

[roundbox]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

Trucy Wright's ability is only once per game, but I can see its problem of confirming two players. I'll consider alternatives today.
Mayas doc can stay, and I can change her secondary to be a one-shot something else that has no easy confiming ability

[_Zenith_]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

I don't see how Trucy is OP in a way nor do I see how it can possibly confirm two people at once.

It can certainly confirm who is town or who is a wolf depending on the cardflip and target, but it can also backfire with a Ms. Miney's ability if they target the hatted player.

Probably can't see it now but if you say there is a possible double confirmation within it then I might need an explanation on it

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

my problem isn't the double confirmation, which I also don't think is very possible, only time you get a double confirmation is if and only if a wolf dies in the night and Maya didn't shoot or isn't present in the game, most of which is probably not within town's realm of knowledge unless Maya/other role was already forced to claim or something.
I mean even then its still \technically\ not a double confirmation because the wolves could've wolfed one another but lol.

My problem is having a role that essentially makes a player only able to die via lynch, which is not a good thing regardless of their alignment.

If they're town, Trucy guarantees the other PR one night in certain scenarios, which is VERY bad for the wolves. Even when used on a vanilla town, if the wolves try and kill that VT, its horrible for the wolves. Lose a nightkill and lose a member. Its a tiny bit better if the kill still goes through but the wolf still dies, but its still pretty bad for the wolves.

I mean yeah its one-shot, its not the most broken thing I've ever seen, but its still really strong imo. Its probably playable when I first wrote up my thoughts about it I didn't know it was one-shot because I'm in 3rd grade and can't read well.

Its also really good for the wolves if used on a wolf, but I guess that's just a win-more kind of role (which I don't like in principle).

Changing Maya's 2nd ability might not be necessary, I'd probably make her a 1-shot medic and 1-shot vigi if I made any changes to her. Again, up to you. She's a bit strong as it stands.

Wolf version of Miles could be changed, his role can be more of a hindrance than a help, especially if it can trigger instas.

Manfred is cool.

Kristoph could maybe be both a strongman and a ninja if the town power roles are kept as they are, but if they're toned back a bit keeping him as he is is probably aite.

[roundbox]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

I think the one-shot doc and vigi would be a suitable replacement.

The Trucy doll collapses after the night it's used. Did you think it stayed at that character's door forever?

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

I think the one-shot doc and vigi would be a suitable replacement.

The Trucy doll collapses after the night it's used. Did you think it stayed at that character's door forever?

yes I thought it stayed there forever and I also thought you could take it back and use it on someone else cuz im a stupidhead.

its still really strong, though

[_Zenith_]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

my problem isn't the double confirmation, which I also don't think is very possible, only time you get a double confirmation is if and only if a wolf dies in the night and Maya didn't shoot or isn't present in the game, most of which is probably not within town's realm of knowledge unless Maya/other role was already forced to claim or something.
I mean even then its still \technically\ not a double confirmation because the wolves could've wolfed one another but lol.

My problem is having a role that essentially makes a player only able to die via lynch, which is not a good thing regardless of their alignment.

If they're town, Trucy guarantees the other PR one night in certain scenarios, which is VERY bad for the wolves. Even when used on a vanilla town, if the wolves try and kill that VT, its horrible for the wolves. Lose a nightkill and lose a member. Its a tiny bit better if the kill still goes through but the wolf still dies, but its still pretty bad for the wolves.

I mean yeah its one-shot, its not the most broken thing I've ever seen, but its still really strong imo. Its probably playable when I first wrote up my thoughts about it I didn't know it was one-shot because I'm in 3rd grade and can't read well.

Its also really good for the wolves if used on a wolf, but I guess that's just a win-more kind of role (which I don't like in principle).

Changing Maya's 2nd ability might not be necessary, I'd probably make her a 1-shot medic and 1-shot vigi if I made any changes to her. Again, up to you. She's a bit strong as it stands.

Wolf version of Miles could be changed, his role can be more of a hindrance than a help, especially if it can trigger instas.

Manfred is cool.

Kristoph could maybe be both a strongman and a ninja if the town power roles are kept as they are, but if they're toned back a bit keeping him as he is is probably aite.

Bolded: You are merely forgetting it is entirely one-shot so losing that in one phase is perfectly fine and not overpowered towards the wolf team. If it's really that concerning then maybe lose 2 VTs in place of a wolf so that it isn't so "detrimental" to the wolf team if that scenario happens.

Underlined: Two one shot abilities on a PR essentially will make that PR useless after abilities are used. I do not think this should happen by any means.

Second Bolded: It is to ensure a wolf rush has majority if one (which isn't at all in their favor unless it's a KitB) or if two where town better be concerned because wolves can rush anything depending on how far the game has gotten losing the two PRs.

A proposed fix could be to make the Vanilla Wolf be another basic wolf ability so that in the event that the first bolded happens, they aren't falling majorly behind and can come back from a loss with a blocked nightkill + wolf death in a night phase.

[_Zenith_]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

The setup imho is already great however it is almost dependent on the players with those roles and how they play. If anyone doesn't know how to properly play as a wolf PR or town PR then it should balance itself out with lack of knowledge on how to act and successfully use the abilities in a manner that helps their alignment.

I can totally see at least one cheesecake moment where a PR loses their life for some reason due to the player behind the role, not the actual role itself.

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

strongly disagree about the first thing you bolded, losing a nightkill and losing a wolf puts you behind town twice as much as a medic save does, and medic saves already win games.

pretty strongly disagree about Maya being weak if she's both a 1-shot medic and 1-shot vigi, I thought about suggesting she be weaker than that tbh. Yes, she is nothing but a VT after she uses her abilities, but when playing ideally, the player playing as Maya shouldn't use the medic save until they have to. Vigi's are already strong even if they shoot a town because they likely are going to shoot a scummy town that would probably be mislynched anyways and if they shoot correctly its both a morale boost for town and a step up, numbers wise. She's strong enough as she is it doesn't matter if she eventually can do nothing, she'll have done a lot by that point. One-shot roles are pretty necessary sometimes, balancewise.

You make a good point regarding vote-rushing actually. I hadn't been thinking about that. He might be ok as he is, then.

[thesunfan]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

The setup imho is already great however it is almost dependent on the players with those roles and how they play. If anyone doesn't know how to properly play as a wolf PR or town PR then it should balance itself out with lack of knowledge on how to act and successfully use the abilities in a manner that helps their alignment.

I can totally see at least one cheesecake moment where a PR loses their life for some reason due to the player behind the role, not the actual role itself.

the problem is, you don't balance games around this, you balance them around all players playing perfectly and playing strongly in certain situations.

[roundbox]

Re: TWG Game Building Thread

The setup imho is already great however it is almost dependent on the players with those roles and how they play. If anyone doesn't know how to properly play as a wolf PR or town PR then it should balance itself out with lack of knowledge on how to act and successfully use the abilities in a manner that helps their alignment.

I can totally see at least one cheesecake moment where a PR loses their life for some reason due to the player behind the role, not the actual role itself.

This could be said about most games.
Both Edgeworths are gonna get changed but I definitely have plenty of time to fine tune this setup