Ingame Song Information

[bmah]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I'd rather look at the difficulty from the file itself rather than the number of AAAs achieved. That's a poor measure of difficulty and is indirect at best.

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: Ingame Song Information

The thing about Guitar sounds is that it does require good control to score on properly. Files like Four Block Madness and Grocery Escape Plan are mainly just 16ths while guitar sounds.... is a mess of different patterns (in comparison) that are awkward.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I'd rather look at the difficulty from the file itself rather than the number of AAAs achieved. That's a poor measure of difficulty and is indirect at best.

File is hard enough to be an FMO, just using the statistics to back it up. There is a clear difference in both the number of FCs and the number of AAAs between Variations 2 and the VCs from 2 weeks ago.

Just because some people [you] subjectively believe that the file is easy enough to be a 10, the 1 week stats resemble the 1 week stats of an 11. (See: Grocery Escape Plan, which is an easier FMO IMO [subjective])

Sooooo, since there is no concrete metric for what distinguishes an 11 from a 10, the statistical information needs to be relied on, like jx said.

Repost of my 'difficulty of the file itself' post from the other thread:

reasons why Variations 2 is FMO in my opinion:

Handstream of course
[IMG]http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii272/rushyrulz/reason1.png[/IMG]

this weird 32nd burst and similar ones appear [b]5 times[/b] in the file.
[IMG]http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii272/rushyrulz/reason2.png[/IMG]

6 random jumps at the same speed of the stream, it's not the hardest jump pattern ever, but it takes a while to get used to.
[IMG]http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii272/rushyrulz/reason3.png[/IMG]

awkward graces near the end have screwed me many a time
[IMG]http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii272/rushyrulz/reason4.png[/IMG]

jump to 24th mini trill to hand twice in the file along with 3 other 24th trill-lets ending in jumps
[IMG]http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii272/rushyrulz/reason5.png[/img]

[color=red]And most importantly, all of these high 10, low 11 patterns are all packed into one song.[/color]

While Guitar Sounds does have plenty of weird bursts and it's very technical (btw good job, w_c that file is amazing jsin), there isn't anything that really throws it over the VC/FMO border. People who aren't really the best at rainbow files might argue it's an 11. IMO it really could go either way.

AJ is right tho, Variations being FMO is practically out of the question. When compared to Guitar Sounds which is at least high VC, Variations is a much more difficult file. The only thing higher than a high VC is an FMO (disregarding FGO, FSO of course). Just logic.

[who_cares973]

Re: Ingame Song Information

1 month waiting period before stats are taken into account

[rushyrulz]

Re: Ingame Song Information

just sayin.

[bmah]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Yeah, still not long enough. One or two weeks is not any indication of anything. For example, my lack of AAAs on those songs have nothing to do with the difficulty, but rather a lack of time. Seeing what time of the year it is, a whole bunch of people are in the same situation as well.

If you want to rely on stats, don't do it now. You're just itching to justify your argument.

Also, file not hard enough for an FMO. Handstreams justify nothing. Bursts justify nothing either. If they were awkwardly placed, that's a different story, but the patterns fit quite well and are predictable.

[who_cares973]

Re: Ingame Song Information

the patterns arent very predictable you're just clairvoyant

[emulord]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Idk about everyone else, but I hate handstream. Its harder than jumpstream in terms of a note density function, and its harder to read.
Also, historically only FMO+ had hands at all.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Ingame Song Information

the patterns arent very predictable you're just clairvoyant

yea, wtf lol.. those bursts are far from predictable, they switch directions halfway through and none of the 5 are identical

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Information

I'd rather look at the difficulty from the file itself

Then your difficulty will be wrong. The goal of difficulty is to give a good indication of how hard it will be for a player to score well on it. Players, not computer programs. So we can only really tell how hard a file is by how well people do on it. If people find file X harder than most low FMOs, then X should be at least FMO.

PS, for all you people who have no clue about technical difficulty: most players haven't spent 3+ years perfecting their MA on SM. If you take two files that are the same speed (average and burst nps and npf) but one is a lot more rhythmically complicated, the more complicated one is DEFINITELY more difficult, not equally difficult.

[bmah]

Re: Ingame Song Information

If people find file X harder than most low FMOs, then X should be at least FMO.

Btw, this has yet to be proven. Most people have not said that Variations 2 exceeds most low FMOs in difficulty.

If you take two files that are the same speed (average and burst nps and npf) but one is a lot more rhythmically complicated, the more complicated one is DEFINITELY more difficult, not equally difficult.

Good generality, but there are of course more factors to it than that. Complexity, layering intensity, song itself, etc. For example, my experience from Guitar Sounds being harder than Variations 2 have to do with the unpredictability of the song. It's not easy to discern when a certain arrow will arrive; you have to more or less sightread. With Variations 2, you have a beat to predict arrows more easily. You also know what to expect in most 16th note files - you have some sort of reference.

Similarly, PAing is made more difficult by a lack of beat or a constant beat that does not help you get a frame of reference rhythmically. This is probably why many people find Reality hard to AAA. The base sound are 16th drums blaring without any sort of pattern or landmark - it's just constant. You can easily lose your rhythm in the midst of the streams.

That being said, Guitar Sounds has more complexity and unpredictability, but not necessarily intense layering. Variations 2 has a lot of layering, but steps predictably. What you hear is exactly what you'd expect when you play the steps. Additionally, the handstream patterns are repetitive. You should be more rhythmically comfortable.

With the assumption that people have various strengths and weaknesses, I think both songs even out in difficulty.

My references to songs that seem harder are Feldschlacht, PianoxForte, maybe even Twilight Jewel, etc. Those songs are pretty unpredictable, can sometimes be heavily layered, but are also very long (consistency!). Yet all of these are VCs. I think Variations 2 are at least on the same level, but with different characteristics.

Also, compare the number of AAAs Feldschalcht has for instance. It has been around for much longer than these newer songs.

Therefore, I think Variations 2 is a VC.

That's my two cents.

[qqwref]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Btw, this has yet to be proven. Most people have not said that Variations 2 exceeds most low FMOs in difficulty.

No, that was a general statement - true for all files. I mean that we should use something like "is this as hard or harder as the lowest files of this difficulty" to determine things, rather than silly subjective arguments.

Good generality, but there are of course more factors to it than that. Complexity, layering intensity, song itself, etc.

There are definitely more factors. I just think nobody should be just relying on the raw speed of the file to talk about difficulty.

My references to songs that seem harder are Feldschlacht, PianoxForte, maybe even Twilight Jewel, etc. Those songs are pretty unpredictable, can sometimes be heavily layered, but are also very long (consistency!). Yet all of these are VCs. I think Variations 2 are at least on the same level, but with different characteristics.

There are certain high VCs that many people have been trying for a while to get pushed into the FMO category. Generally the people in charge of difficulties either ignore the arguments, or decide that what they personally think is more important. So it's inaccurate to say that, because these files are currently listed as VC, they should be considered the standard for high VCs. The VC-FMO line has been steadily moving upwards since FFR came back, and I (among other people) think this should stop.

[rushyrulz]

Re: Ingame Song Information

My references to songs that seem harder are Feldschlacht, PianoxForte, maybe even Twilight Jewel, etc. Those songs are pretty unpredictable, can sometimes be heavily layered, but are also very long (consistency!). Yet all of these are VCs. I think Variations 2 are at least on the same level, but with different characteristics.

These should all be 11s as well along with Didj PVC, Szerencstelen, and Bus Rides.

[LJRoX]

Re: Ingame Song Information

These should all be 11s as well along with Didj PVC, Szerencstelen, and Bus Rides.

OK, not Bus Rides.

That shit is WAYY too easy for a 11.

[who_cares973]

Re: Ingame Song Information

Idk about everyone else, but I hate handstream. Its harder than jumpstream in terms of a note density function, and its harder to read.
Also, historically only FMO+ had hands at all.

Broken rule that was removed when TASS left get with the times