Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

That's just egoistical thinking. ("Wah, I had it hard so other should too!")

I wouldn't say it's "egotistical." I mean, they're right that it's somewhat unfair they had to deal with framer gayness and others won't, and that they had to put in large time amounts to beat it. But realistically these are mistakes that shouldn't have been there in the first place which is why I'd rather they be fixed now. They're right to a degree to want everyone else to have to endure their same trouble to be honest. We want to give everyone the real chart and not something that's unintentionally gonna mess with them. If Epilogue had framers that weren't intended, I'd probably laugh at first but then request they be fixed if you lose your AAA I want it to be due to my chart as I stepped it, not because of a simple conversion issue.

Just my three cents.

[iironiic]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

Although I agree with Rob and Carlos, I think that the main reason that prompt me to make this thread is for the greater good. There are many files in which its play-ability doesn't feel right simply because of the 30 FPS characteristic in the FFR engine. Why do we let framers create this discrepancy for players who actually want to enjoy the game? Why do we have to force our way through some jacks versus other jacks throughout the file, even if they are stepped the same way in the same bpm? It doesn't make any sense.

Many people also criticize many stepartists for "crappy" files simply because of the framer issue. Why is that? I am not saying that I am one of these stepartists, but I just find that argument unfair and unfortunate for stepartists who have their files screwed up simply because of the engine.

Lastly, let's say that Person A is really really proud of his/her score because of how he attacked the framers in some "framer-messed-up" file. Person B is requesting a framer fix on that particular file. Why must Person A disagree with that, simply because he worked hard for that score? If people are really that stubborn, I don't mind erasing the entire scoreboard and re-uploading another file.

[igotrhythm]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

I think even Hi19 himself is displeased with how the 64th rolls in Rudi the Techno Pioneer turned out...he wanted (12)(34) and got 1(23)4.

As for the replay derp, that's not something we can fix right now because the game looks at the frame the arrow was hit on relative to where the note is...perhaps in the future, when Velo's ready to roll out R3 with ms timing, not only will framers not be an issue anymore, but hits will be recorded relative to where the note is, so in the event that fixes might be necessary, an early hit on an arrow will still be an early hit because the hit is recorded as, say, .05 seconds (50 ms) before the actual note with little or no relevance to absolute position in the file.

In the meantime, let's work with what we have.

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

I'm not trying to take the elitist stance of 'I did it the hard way so everyone else should too' btw. Honestly there's probably a ton of files that I could probably snag with great ease once frame fixes are up (fixing random two frame minijacks in files with bpms between 150-225bpm -- Demon Fire Oni and Blue Rose come to mind). It's just that once a file has had its frames tweaked, essentially two versions of the chart have been created for scoring in FFR. And you can't make the argument that this is practically the same as playing both mirror and non-mirror, as players will no longer have access to the 'original' version of the chart once the new one is in game. They'll be forced to improve their score on the updated version.

That's the main point I was trying to make. On top of that lol, I don't want my AAA replays to show BFs or 2-0-0-0 or whatever if the updated versions get in

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

just make sure that if framers are being fixed that no one edit the chart and then add the edited chart without permission from the stepartist

[iironiic]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

It's just that once a file has had its frames tweaked, essentially two versions of the chart have been created for scoring in FFR. And you can't make the argument that this is practically the same as playing both mirror and non-mirror, as players will no longer have access to the 'original' version of the chart once the new one is in game. They'll be forced to improve their score on the updated version.

Presumably the newer updated version of the file is much simpler than the framer-f**ked version, so improving scores shouldn't be too much of a hassle. I understand that they are "not" the same charts, but at least the newer chart emphasizes patterns more accurately than the older one.

And Carlos, of course not. There were never any intentions of that. Maybe it's best to get the stepartist's permission to have their files framer-fixed if needed. In that case, anyone has my permission to framer-fix my files on FFR.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

rob should know why i added that

[One Winged Angel]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

heh yeah..

[Coolboyrulez0]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

feel free to fix an framer issues on NaiNai / 3020 / AQD unless the collaberator have issues with it or there actually arent any.

[Silvuh]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

I'm not going to argue for or against applying framer fixes on old files, but if they do end up being implemented, a few files of mine quickly come to mind.

Blue-Violet is 175 BPM, so 16ths would be 85.7 ms, 2.57 frames, apart.
3-5-2 as it is now has the right number of frames between the two yellows, so fixing the jack to 3-4-3 might actually be a little weird, with only one more frame in an 8th gap than the 16th... Whatever makes the file easier to play, though.



When a 60 fps FFR engine is released, all the original files can be reconverted, and these jacks will be 5-10-5 frames apart. That would be perfect.

Ninja Lad is 170 BPM and has a few 2-framers in it that could be fixed if necessary.

In Serenade of Storms, I used white notes to emphasize the bass, not as grace notes. I moved them closer to the 4ths with sub-beats, but even still, some were caught off the frame. These two arrows are 3 ms apart on the .sm file, but the conversion made them 33ms apart.



There are at least seven of these that should be fixed by moving the white notes to the same frame as the 4ths or 12ths. A lot of players probably hit these as jumps anyway, and that's what they should be.

[foxfire667]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

I am for any frame fixes that occur in this game in the future. Perhaps all future files can have their own testing period, where people can assess these problems before they are finalized (like a veteran beta testing a week earlier or something).

Also, yes it may affect replays, but I would honestly rather have slightly messed up replays than messed up song in the engine. It's better for the song to play well for everyone than for my replays to play perfectly for me.

[bmah]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

I'm completely for frame-fixing. Maybe Camel can get its chance to shine without being screwed over by tight framers.

[~Zeta~]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

Little God Channel - some bad minijacks. Don't remember if any of the 32nds are messed up.

Scrap Syndrome - jumpjacks I think?

Sparkle Downer - some bursts and some color issues.

Silly Symphony - When the guitar solo starts 4--4--4--4-3[24]321--1 (split into 12ths). Those appear to be framered to me. If it's meant or actually that way, than let it be.

Piano Etude (Gymnastics) - the left/right jacks/jumpjacks have a few gaps in them, iirc. Not sure if fixable.

Red Wings Over Baron - The second set of 2[13] trilling (non-mirror), the last 3 or 4 sets speed up dramatically. I'm not sure if this is the stepartist or some really bad conversion.

Reality - not sure if this has some hope or not. but those stream patterns are brutally framered.

Those are some not listed when I was running through my level ranks.

[Wayward Vagabond]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

the 24ths in silly symphony are screwed up yes i dont remember the other files and im too tired to veri-fy

[Xx{Midnight}xX]

Re: Songs In Need of Framer Fixing!

Maybe it's best to get the stepartist's permission to have their files framer-fixed if needed.

Isn't it once you send a chart into FFR you're pretty much giving the site free reign to do with it as the site pleases as long as it doesn't change the chart? In this case fixing the framers doesn't change the chart because, again, these were unintended issues with the converter that no one can really see coming. So isn't the idea of getting their permission unneeded, and in my honest opinion rather stupid?

Edit: In case someone mistakes what I meant by "the site" I meant the people in charge of managing the game.