TWG 210: Vanilla Ice Cream in Sprite [GAME THREAD]

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by FreezinIce

A lot of comments on things happening as they pass by him but not a lot of personal assertion or trying to act with purpose. If that makes sense to anyone but me...

read my response to sunfan and see if that makes sense to you. I guess I don't disagree that I wasn't pushing in any singular direction (other than NOT star) once I got off of you. I had a lot of "don't want lyncheds" and not much in the way of "want lyncheds"

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Not that there is a PR, but they must've felt like she was as threatening as one, or they think by killing her it'd implicate some random VT, or they could've RNG'd but either way I'm not going to spend more time explaining my misspoken moment or theorycrafting why they killed her.

Time is better spent on why she died

I really don't like this explanation. Had Zenith responded with "oops silly me I forgot this was mountainous and there's no PRs" I wouldn't think anything of it. I don't think having a brain fart in analysis is indicative of alignment, especially when talking about the NK, but this response doesn't say "I had a brain fart" or "I made a mistake", it, to me, dishonestly distorts the previous reference to PRs as "not actually PRs" and that feels really ick. One of the oldest rules of this game is "Lynch all liars" for a reason.

Zenith can you explain why you responded this way about your misspoken moment?

[ShadoWolfe]

this whole nagito thing is really confusing as someone who knows extremely little about danganronpa and hasn't played the games or watched the animes or consumed really any of its content despite having so many friends that are very clearly nearly obsessed with it, and the subsequent analysis is completely throwing me so if someone wants to explain exactly the type of nagito traits that stereotypically would be implied by ben, I'd appreciate it

it probably isn't important in the grander scheme of things, but I'm curious since star and sunfan are both basing stuff off of it

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

do you recall any instance where a wolf team (that did not involve you) performed a nightkill in order to frame someone, zenith?

This is a really dumb question that I won't entertain.

Originally Posted by the sun fan

apologiezs but

why would there be a soft performed by raeko?
did you just forget that this a mountainous setup with no prs?
I'm really not following

Last time I'm saying this, and this is the logic train AS I WAS TYPING THAT POST:
Raeko dies -> Overthink on why she died -> forgets setup and thinks about PR -> gives PR as a reason she might've died -> failed to explain that it was something I thought about as I was trying to figure out WHY she died -> tried explaining -> you guys aren't following whatsoever, you guys just care about PR being brought up in a PR-less game

I'm fucking TIRED of it.

Originally Posted by the sun fan

also wait why would you say what you said about "those who trust sunfan this EOD will be scrutinized" when you were only voting me because you don't know who to vote???

because anyone following you during EoD when I said that was going in for a bad time, you were all over the place and if anyone followed you it was going to be wolves or blind faith and I genuinely think town following you last phase would have been a bad move

Originally Posted by the sun fan

yeah like
this does not square at all with
"I voted u cuz idk I was just building a town circle"
Zenith
???

OMGURS

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I really don't like this explanation. Had Zenith responded with "oops silly me I forgot this was mountainous and there's no PRs" I wouldn't think anything of it. I don't think having a brain fart in analysis is indicative of alignment, especially when talking about the NK, but this response doesn't say "I had a brain fart" or "I made a mistake", it, to me, dishonestly distorts the previous reference to PRs as "not actually PRs" and that feels really ick. One of the oldest rules of this game is "Lynch all liars" for a reason.

Zenith can you explain why you responded this way about your misspoken moment?

It's pretty infuriating to have people not believe in a genuine mishap of words while thinking, and it is their right, and I will GLADLY let you lynch me if it stop this discussion from continuing. It is what it is and I'm leaving it at that. I genuinely think focusing on my mishap is a huge detriment to town and the more I keep seeing you guys bring it up the more I think you're going to cost town the win.

I will not be back in thread until later tonight.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

This is a really dumb question that I won't entertain.



Last time I'm saying this, and this is the logic train AS I WAS TYPING THAT POST:
Raeko dies -> Overthink on why she died -> forgets setup and thinks about PR -> gives PR as a reason she might've died -> failed to explain that it was something I thought about as I was trying to figure out WHY she died -> tried explaining -> you guys aren't following whatsoever, you guys just care about PR being brought up in a PR-less game

I'm fucking TIRED of it.
----------------------------
It's pretty infuriating to have people not believe in a genuine mishap of words while thinking, and it is their right, and I will GLADLY let you lynch me if it stop this discussion from continuing. It is what it is and I'm leaving it at that. I genuinely think focusing on my mishap is a huge detriment to town and the more I keep seeing you guys bring it up the more I think you're going to cost town the win.

I will not be back in thread until later tonight.

Re-read what I wrote. I literally don't give a crap over the mishap of words or misspoken moment or whatever. I don't care about PR being brought up in a PR-less game. Town makes mistakes ALL the time. I feel like I fucking suck as town half the time and going off on a mental tangent that the fundamental game setup immediately rules out is something I would totally do, so I'm not blaming you for that AT ALL.

What I'm asking is why you tried explaining it as "Not that there is a PR, but they must've felt like she was as threatening as one"

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

not sure I do either, but I don't think it's raeko? like reading her flip felt weird but in retrospect I guess the field was muddier than I thought

Did I miss you answering my question yet on how DaBackpack made it into your 3 off the table?

Also, since multiple people have brought up that they didn't expect the raeko kill, I thought raeko was the most likely person to die. I guess let me know if my reasoning would be helpful, otherwise I am going to do other shit.

Originally Posted by botchi246

This is bait.
Do you think star will give us the best flip info? Has star had the most valuable interactions among the thread?

I personally think star would be a good flip, as well as raeko and benguin, not in that order necessarily. Just based on substance brought to the thread either by their posts themselves or the reactions they created.

I would not like to vote Hakulyte (also hi o/), sunfan, freezin, not necessarily in that order. Either they are covered in the flips above or if just like to see them another day (no offense to my flips)

I am missing a few peeps but, either I haven't really been seeing much from them or they are counted in interactions mentioned above.

Also, im not indicating any alignments because I don't think I can do that yet .

Still not a ton of info to go on, but im comfortable leaving my thoughts here

Originally Posted by botchi246

i dont mind star or benguin flipping, i am leaning toward benguin though because of the sunfan and freezin implications

but id go with star too
decisions

Botchi, you are someone I am looking for to kind of explain what info can be gained from Ben flipping green; as I was saying, I do not really ever approach votes this way and so I think it will both help me understand you and others.

Originally Posted by the sun fan

star I think something broke in your attempted formatting of #243
what are you trying to say on shado and hatred

Yeah let me just repost it with the format how it should have been.

REPOSTED 243 BELOW
Let's see how much of a misc. reads post I can get through on my laptop before I have to leave the house for several hours (I think the answer is not that many)

Shado -
- #136 "Hakulyte and Raeko's exchange on this subject are in line with their respective traditional meta thoughts were 6 years ago, so that's probably positive for both." - why would this not be neutral? This also worries me from a standpoint of, trying to look like solving.
- There is nuance to how he approached my philosophy post (mentions of coming back to it from diff. angles, follow ups) that I think is good analysis, but I think that deserves less "credit" essentially than being able to analyse a broader scope.

Hateandhatred -#99 - "Immediately sussing out this post. I don't have questions, I just slightly hate it. At least no question where any answer would be satisfying. But I've also been wrong on bugkid literally every single game we've played, so... maybe it's time to look inward. But before I do that, I think this looks like an extremely forced post to talk about alignment, plus the "I got called out for this before" [...] But then again like they said it's d0 and this gut feeling will soon not matter at all, probably, possibly, especially if the post comes across as genuinely trying to be helpful early on in retrospect" - There is a lot going on in this post. It is both quite critical and also self-doubting. For me, it crosses into more likely to be from the perspective of somebody actually having to deal with d0 as town. The caveat here would be, ok, if you can have this much of a journey about this one post, tell us more about other people, surely you have more?

Bugkid - I think the t/t post about sun fan and me could have come out that way because of TMI, like coming about too easily. I need more on that and about other things

[bugkid666]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Nah, I fully intended to mention a PR in a PR-less game.



............



Clearly fucking misspoke the wrong term/word there.

what term were you even trying to say

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by botchi246

let me fix this
shados vote started on freezing, then unvote, then ben wagon.
i thought that you were flip flopping on ben, so that consistency argurment is invalid.

I appreciate you catching yourself and saving us both the trouble

Originally Posted by botchi246

but you believed freezin who believed sunfan, this still seems like you want to follow town around.

I'm not sure I understand. I unvoted freezin, so that means I followed him? and that explains why I didn't vote botchi despite sunfan pleading for his lynch and freezin following him?

[ShadoWolfe]

an aside:
botchi says I wanted to follow town around while freezin says I was doing my own thing and not steering in any specific direction while Haku says I have the most divergent opinions and apparently all three are not good looks

it is a little funny (and a little fascinating) to me that my same posts could result in such wholly different views, not about my alignment, but about their contents themselves. I want to I missed this about TWG, but I'm not sure how much exactly

/aside over. thank you for coming to my ted talk

[bugkid666]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

what term were you even trying to say

this is hilarious now that i'm reading his crash out

zenith nobody gives a shit that you made an oopsie, we all know slip theory isn't real (right?)

what i think people are getting at is that your explanation didn't provide any clarity. i think people genuinely didn't understand what you were trying to say. i know i was confused initially--that you had first made a bizarre error and then your first explanation made me think you said "pr" when you meant a different term entirely. now you're saying that you just had a complete lapse and forgot there werent prs at all. this is all fine, but don't freak out over people having genuine confusion when your explanations aren't clarifying at all.

[ShadoWolfe]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Did I miss you answering my question yet on how DaBackpack made it into your 3 off the table?

Also, since multiple people have brought up that they didn't expect the raeko kill, I thought raeko was the most likely person to die. I guess let me know if my reasoning would be helpful, otherwise I am going to do other shit.

yes please about raeko before you leave please.

I will respond to your DBP question in a sec, I'm just posting between stuff at work

[botchi246]

Originally Posted by ShadoWolfe

I appreciate you catching yourself and saving us both the trouble


I'm not sure I understand. I unvoted freezin, so that means I followed him? and that explains why I didn't vote botchi despite sunfan pleading for his lynch and freezin following him?

well iirc, you turned off your freezin vote because of that post you liked from him. at that point, freezin was going with sunfan on ben. and since sunfan was getting crazed at the end there, im thinking you didnt swap your vote because you didnt want to get caught up in the craziness


im also not even sure sunfan is a town because of all that attention he gave to ben d0 and then he gets lynched (i think sunfan explained this too). Freezin also helped in the ben lynch with the bluff. once again, all eyes on the sunfan ben freezin.
could be a wolf between freezin and sunfan

despite your explanations for d0 sunfan, i find myself thinking something is weird

and once again sunfan put pressure on me in that d0 craziness because of my playstyle

[botchi246]

id liek to see the raeko info too

[botchi246]

Originally Posted by botchi246

and once again sunfan put pressure on me in that d0 craziness because of my playstyle

i realize this isnt the whole reason, sorry to diminish your actual reason

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

This is a really dumb question that I won't entertain.



Last time I'm saying this, and this is the logic train AS I WAS TYPING THAT POST:
Raeko dies -> Overthink on why she died -> forgets setup and thinks about PR -> gives PR as a reason she might've died -> failed to explain that it was something I thought about as I was trying to figure out WHY she died -> tried explaining -> you guys aren't following whatsoever, you guys just care about PR being brought up in a PR-less game

I'm fucking TIRED of it.



because anyone following you during EoD when I said that was going in for a bad time, you were all over the place and if anyone followed you it was going to be wolves or blind faith and I genuinely think town following you last phase would have been a bad move



OMGURS



It's pretty infuriating to have people not believe in a genuine mishap of words while thinking, and it is their right, and I will GLADLY let you lynch me if it stop this discussion from continuing. It is what it is and I'm leaving it at that. I genuinely think focusing on my mishap is a huge detriment to town and the more I keep seeing you guys bring it up the more I think you're going to cost town the win.

I will not be back in thread until later tonight.

1) Ok, I don't think it is a dumb question at all. My point is that I don't think wolves often make nightkills as part of a frame job. If you (or anyone else) wants to point to a specific time, sure. You can even include yourself in it this time if you'd like.

2) This explains it much more clearly for me, and possibly for shado, too. It LOOKS very disjointed without you using the -> and it looks much better with them. I didn't really understand what you were claiming before this moment.

3) ok. Freezin followed me (and I guess ben)
do you want to talk about Freezin more in this instance? I don't know that you've really done that before now, I'll check at least

it was mostly just hard to follow, and again, I don't really care about it much for Alignment Indicative stuff, but I'm not sure I still can rightly fix your "those trusting sunfan will be scrutinized" with "I was just trying to build a town circle and I didn't know who to vote"

like it looks like you're campaigning against me at that EOD with that post, and you're saying you're like
only half doing it

it doesn't match up with what it looks like

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by star-crossed

Did I miss you answering my question yet on how DaBackpack made it into your 3 off the table?

Also, since multiple people have brought up that they didn't expect the raeko kill, I thought raeko was the most likely person to die. I guess let me know if my reasoning would be helpful, otherwise I am going to do other shit.

in the interest of your time since you said you were busier these days
give yourself a time limit of 5 minutes max, but explain why you thought she was the most likely person to die

also how the fuck did you predict last phase I have to know idc if town even wins this game I have to know how you did that

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

this is hilarious now that i'm reading his crash out

zenith nobody gives a shit that you made an oopsie, we all know slip theory isn't real (right?)

what i think people are getting at is that your explanation didn't provide any clarity. i think people genuinely didn't understand what you were trying to say. i know i was confused initially--that you had first made a bizarre error and then your first explanation made me think you said "pr" when you meant a different term entirely. now you're saying that you just had a complete lapse and forgot there werent prs at all. this is all fine, but don't freak out over people having genuine confusion when your explanations aren't clarifying at all.

If words of command are not clear and distinct, if orders are not thoroughly understood, then the general is to blame. But, if orders are clear and the soldiers nevertheless disobey, then it is the fault of their officers.
-bugkid666, The Art of War

[botchi246]

yo sunfan, you said you had something to discuss with me. i see you are here. come on let it rip

[the sun fan]

Originally Posted by botchi246

yo sunfan, you said you had something to discuss with me. i see you are here. come on let it rip

uhhhhh
yeah!
I definitely remember what it was!
(can u show me the post, sorry)

[star-crossed]

Originally Posted by the sun fan

I probably need to explain two things
1) why I elected to vote ben over star in the first place
2) why I voted ben over botchi at EOD

I will begin with the latter, because I think it is easier to explain (and, selfishly, I think it looks more townie)

Originally Posted by the sun fan

I probably need to explain two things
1) why I elected to vote ben over star in the first place
2) why I voted ben over botchi at EOD

I will begin with the latter, because I think it is easier to explain (and, selfishly, I think it looks more townie)

Uhhh...I was going to put this in a spoiler tag because I thought I was going to go down a self meta rabbit hole but I think I am going to talk about that in a bit and just post this.

So normally I would just look at the flip first if I am not around for it, but I was actually wondering if I should read through in order so I would maybe have a better idea of how it felt to actually be there. But then to be honest curiosity killed the cat because there was some chance I was voted off in which case what is the point. I was honestly very freaked out when I even saw Ben's name in the flip post, and then I'm like...is he somehow a wolf? Ok no? What the hell happened, because Xel was the only person even sussing him when I left?

So then as I'm finding out what the hell happened, both DaBackpack and Shado coming in trying to pressure basically all people I think have passed d0 is apparent. Shado has me top town but thinks my reads are ass backwards I guess, but is coming around by the end. DaBackpack I have already gone into for the most part. bugkid posts are at least ok. H&H and Xel are both disappointing, townread me, so fine to kill ben for "info." botchi in commentator mode? and Zenith maybe in a paranoid spiral? DBP I am sus of because I think because I think him kind of being against you could be agenda-driven; if he is town then I think he essentially misplayed by being AGAINST everyone who was actually around to know what the fuck was going on and just tunneling into that with limited info.

I guess in my head:
- Ben wagon is filthy AF
- My brain currently likes this narrative of one supervillain wolf because I am townreading most of the people I know well (I am most sus of DBP rn but if I'm wrong there then Shado maybe??) and then decent chance of one in Xel/H&H of disappointing wolf who is too pansy to vote for me and too pansy to do their own thing if it's H&H, and then that leaves the last one as someone off wagon or somebody I am wrong on in my town reads.
- Given the setup, I actually could see wolves trying to do super weird things with votes that make the game harder to solve so I don't really want to over-rely on vote logic assumptions but I guess I'll worry about that later and/or when we have more PoE. (with that being the case, why am I more focused on votes than I normally would be? maybe because it's a big game??)