TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

genuinely unsure how i feel about a weiss vote but i think its not something a wolf would do for what its worth

Interesting, why so?


It's a bit of a copout vote to vote a 0-poster, which makes it easy for mafia to do and avoid pushing someone who will actually push back; that being said, town do do it too!!!

[roundbox]

insta is not a good look, but we're safe for now

Originally Posted by bugkid666

genuinely unsure how i feel about a weiss vote but i think its not something a wolf would do for what its worth

you shouldn't be thinking of a weiss vote

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

i'll rephrase and say that i think its pretty unfounded to have any solid wolf leads right now. at best it's tentative speculation or "gray area" otherwise it looks like youre bussing. i see where you're coming from but i think i just have a different perspective on straight up reading someone wolf d0

I find it interesting that you're straight up talking about bussing when nobody else did. I mean, I do agree with you and I find you to be pretty towny overall, and I share your way of thinking when it comes to d0. But still, are you worried about doing that yourself, or do you not worry at all about how it might be perceived because you have little reason to?

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

When I say wagoned people should generally be voting the counterwagon at EoD, it's under the assumption that both people are in the general PoE; sure the counterwagon could be town, but it helps to narrow it down!!

That being said, if we ensure everyone is voting someone at EoD regardless, then that's also a perfectly fine way to ensure that we at least get the shot off somehow/it doesn't get lost, and it's fine to ignore this!!!

So you're just saying what I was saying if everyone is voting... I was just extra concerned because blues being confirmed towns is valuable and didn't initially realize they wouldn't know themselves, even though the OP is very obvious about it. It's my bad and it was a complete brainfart.

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

General question: does Hate usually tend to take like, 2 hours to type up a response multi-quote like he did here?

If yes, then okay we'll move on; if not, it does feel like he was a little frozen here!!

That being said, I don't want to go to him being mafia if he's just really slow at typing!!!

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

I don't recall Hate taking this long in the past. He does make wall posts but usually they aren't this spread apart. Maybe someone with better memory than me can chime in here

I literally used to play on a PS Vita so it was way worse in the past, like circa 2017. I'm not very quick to gather my thoughts on this game in general, and I was also multitasking with college stuff (primarily sending my payment information to the government so I can get a fkn student loan already)

Originally Posted by bugkid666

unfortunately much of this is meta reads which i know isnt super helpful

most to least towny
mellonxcollie - (admittedly i am very bad at reading raeko, i can't differentiate her wolf/town games)
MML - seems to be perpetuating good conversation in a productive way towards a common goal, approaching things from genuine reaction rather than a systematic way like a wolf might
haku - seems to be commenting on things in a realistic way, not trying to sway people but just voicing their honest opinions. seems towny
ara - not super sure, more gray area but leaning town
leetic - null, not really sure what to think but leaning towards town. just not used to playing with someone that aggressive out the gate (not inherently a bad thing)
rb - see what mml posted and that set off some flags for me. roundbox i also find hard to read and i've been pocketed by him before for simply agreeing with me, so i'm wary
hateandhatred - something about his walls of reactions seems very performative. not willing to give out much of his opinions without commenting on someone elses' first (ie it's easy to look like youre accomplishing something when you do this). not inherently wolf behavior but its more than i can say for anyone else

???
weiss

unfairly, i am nervous to play with sunfan or star lol

d0 reads lists, not happening from me this phase and it never has unless something insane happened. I can still react to yours though

I have no idea how you have raeko over MML here. I think MML is way too useful and proactive to ever lynch today. I do think he's usually a bit more aggressive as town with players, but come on, he's still engaging with everyone and working to town's interest. Obviously he's just very experienced with ffrtwg (speaking of which, how many of you guys come from other twg/mafia communities? It seems like it's most of you) and that's not alignment indicative, but I want him around this phase unless he says something unbelievably sus. Raeko is helpful but like you said, she's playing her usual game, and while I don't want to vote her either, I feel like that alone makes her more of a ??? we would want to see solved.

You say haku seems towny for commenting and not trying to sway people, and that gets him third on your list? why?

leetic and roundbox being where they are is fair, but you have haku above them because ???

As for me, well I frankly can't really help it but shrug, I'm barely catching up to the conversation. I'm gonna be around for the rest of the day and try to get involved better, but as you said yourself, it's fucking d0

[leetic]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

i'll rephrase this by saying that voting weiss with the knowledge of the vengeful spirit is something i disagree with. voting weiss out itself feels like a towny sentiment, not something a wolf would necessary push for

If there's a wolf in you/Hate/Ara I could see it being done as a way of expanding the PoE. Remember, wolves ideally want the main wagons to be t/t to minimize their chance of being shot in the night. That all depends on how certain players flip though

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by roundbox

A vote for Weiss is a wasted vote since host will probably off him

Glad Haku answered H&H's PoE question after so long
I feel like people missed that part of his wallpost. It was like the second post he reacted to, lmao.

I don't think bug's post is a slip. I like their explanation of being more careful with their posts if they had rolled a wolf, and the town version of them just hitting the hay. Haku being willing to join MML on Ara tells me they're not really feeling confident about bug being a hit.

I think I'll be able to make a guess on H&H in a couple of posts. I don't see the performative element at this point, but I feel like I could lean town or wolf instead of pegging him as neutral.

Returning to this post as I want to better voice my roundbox thoughts: it's just... the general tone and approach simply feels like they're actively trying to nail down the shape of the thread/game in a way that feels towny, essentially!!!! To borrow their term, doesn't feel performative/feels very matter-of-fact, this is how things are/taking steps towards solving the game for town/that type of thing!!



(That being said yes, keeping in the back of my mind that they could be sane mafia here as technically there's nothing here that makes me feel strongly that they're town, like what I've put down from leetic/MixMasterLar for instance; leaning just town here, though!!!)

[leetic]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

I find it interesting that you're straight up talking about bussing when nobody else did. I mean, I do agree with you and I find you to be pretty towny overall, and I share your way of thinking when it comes to d0. But still, are you worried about doing that yourself, or do you not worry at all about how it might be perceived because you have little reason to?



So you're just saying what I was saying if everyone is voting... I was just extra concerned because blues being confirmed towns is valuable and didn't initially realize they wouldn't know themselves, even though the OP is very obvious about it. It's my bad and it was a complete brainfart.




I literally used to play on a PS Vita so it was way worse in the past, like circa 2017. I'm not very quick to gather my thoughts on this game in general, and I was also multitasking with college stuff (primarily sending my payment information to the government so I can get a fkn student loan already)



d0 reads lists, not happening from me this phase and it never has unless something insane happened. I can still react to yours though

I have no idea how you have raeko over MML here. I think MML is way too useful and proactive to ever lynch today. I do think he's usually a bit more aggressive as town with players, but come on, he's still engaging with everyone and working to town's interest. Obviously he's just very experienced with ffrtwg (speaking of which, how many of you guys come from other twg/mafia communities? It seems like it's most of you) and that's not alignment indicative, but I want him around this phase unless he says something unbelievably sus. Raeko is helpful but like you said, she's playing her usual game, and while I don't want to vote her either, I feel like that alone makes her more of a ??? we would want to see solved.

You say haku seems towny for commenting and not trying to sway people, and that gets him third on your list? why?

leetic and roundbox being where they are is fair, but you have haku above them because ???

As for me, well I frankly can't really help it but shrug, I'm barely catching up to the conversation. I'm gonna be around for the rest of the day and try to get involved better, but as you said yourself, it's fucking d0

Can you give us your reads on all the players? You dying today looks more and more likely by the minute so at least give us something we can work with

[leetic]

At this point, realtiming is much more important than catching up on posts. You have like ninety minutes left, make them count.

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

I literally used to play on a PS Vita so it was way worse in the past, like circa 2017. I'm not very quick to gather my thoughts on this game in general, and I was also multitasking with college stuff (primarily sending my payment information to the government so I can get a fkn student loan already)

Entirely understandable, I will discard the activity read part of the read on you in that case; good luck with getting your student loan!!!!

(Noting that I am currently reading your catchup posts in general, just mostly wanting to give you space to do your stuff for the moment!!)

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I'd recommend voting outside of Weiss because this exists:

"When the Vengeful Spirit is killed during the day by vote, the person they were voting for is also killed. If they were not voting for anyone upon death, then a random town player is killed instead."

There's literally no reason not to vote indeed, for those who might want to insta me (I'm not caught up entirely but weiss just in case it's me and I get killed before I get a chance to get into it more, it's just a placeholder though

Originally Posted by leetic

You really better step up your effort here, you have three votes

I don't feel incredibly compelled to defend myself though. People aren't really accusing me or anything, they just don't like how I've approached the game so far lol, and this early, well you can't really help it

Originally Posted by leetic

Instas are on, so if Hate is town and the wagon is pure then wolves have the ability to end the phase right now (or not if Weiss is wolf). Though if that is the case I invite the wolves to immediately out themselves

This is probably the only game I've been in where insta isn't super sexy unless everyone is voting

[leetic]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

There's literally no reason not to vote indeed, for those who might want to insta me (I'm not caught up entirely but weiss just in case it's me and I get killed before I get a chance to get into it more, it's just a placeholder though



I don't feel incredibly compelled to defend myself though. People aren't really accusing me or anything, they just don't like how I've approached the game so far lol, and this early, well you can't really help it



This is probably the only game I've been in where insta isn't super sexy unless everyone is voting

I suppose self pressing here is fair, the risks that come with a Weiss vote also come with any other VT vote. Still, that's just as easy to make as a wolf so I still need more. You not defending yourself would be better actually, instead try to explain your worldview in this game. Speaking of, don't do this now but by EoD we should really get claims out of the wagoned people; we don't want to mislynch a PR if we can help it.

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

d0 reads lists, not happening from me this phase and it never has unless something insane happened. I can still react to yours though

I have no idea how you have raeko over MML here. I think MML is way too useful and proactive to ever lynch today. I do think he's usually a bit more aggressive as town with players, but come on, he's still engaging with everyone and working to town's interest. Obviously he's just very experienced with ffrtwg (speaking of which, how many of you guys come from other twg/mafia communities? It seems like it's most of you) and that's not alignment indicative, but I want him around this phase unless he says something unbelievably sus. Raeko is helpful but like you said, she's playing her usual game, and while I don't want to vote her either, I feel like that alone makes her more of a ??? we would want to see solved.

You say haku seems towny for commenting and not trying to sway people, and that gets him third on your list? why?

leetic and roundbox being where they are is fair, but you have haku above them because ???

As for me, well I frankly can't really help it but shrug, I'm barely catching up to the conversation. I'm gonna be around for the rest of the day and try to get involved better, but as you said yourself, it's fucking d0

While it's only d0 as you say... there's probably only going to be 3 days total, is the issue; we do sort of have to force some early reads!!! It's perfectly fine to not have a full readlist, but do you have a top 2 town/top 2 mafia that you want to talk about, at least? Or just 1 mafia, I suppose, with only 2 mafia in total!!!



I'm not from here, but I did figure most people here already know each other, from the way you talk? Personally I've only played with Weiss before and maybe leetic (not sure if we've ever actually been in the same game together), though I've heard of Raeko/Roundbox/MixMasterLar!!!!

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

There's literally no reason not to vote indeed, for those who might want to insta me (I'm not caught up entirely but weiss just in case it's me and I get killed before I get a chance to get into it more, it's just a placeholder though

I'm not following the logic behind this vote especially given the quote you quoted from Haku

[roundbox]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

I don't feel incredibly compelled to defend myself though. People aren't really accusing me or anything, they just don't like how I've approached the game so far lol, and this early, well you can't really help it

I've accused you of asking a question that you didn't press
it seems like you just asked it for the sake of asking since you don't appear to care about the answer

[leetic]

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

I'm not following the logic behind this vote especially given the quote you quoted from Haku

I think it's supposed to be self pres? Not a vote that couldn't come from town but if they don't follow it up yeah it's not good

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

Drive safe!!

I would switch my vote back to Hate but I don't want to stack too early

I thought his posts were overall pretty lackluster

If you had to, who would you vote outside of Hate/Weiss?



Also, can you give a general readlist? I only really saw you give out the basic reads much earlier in the day, not really clear where you're at in general now!!

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by leetic

Can you give us your reads on all the players? You dying today looks more and more likely by the minute so at least give us something we can work with

God dammit fine

I honestly have no alignment tinfoilling this early in a game but I'll give it a shot. Here's just my voting thoughts in no particular order, just my thoughts out quickly so that we can discuss things

- raeko: it's a 50-50, could be good or bad and she's great at navigating the game very consistently, so at the very least it solves her.
- Haku: aside from a few great interactions, I'm definitely more used to haku having a really high postcount, especially on the weekend. I hate judging based on activity, but it's all we have this early.
- leetic: pushes seem shallow, but fairly reasonable. I'm not a big fan of him asking me to engage more without pressing me more with actual voting intent when most have me pretty high in their shitlist, so I'm very suspicious
- MML: Not voting MML today under any reasonable circumstance unless a slip happens
- rb: honestly same as MML, I feel good about his engagement
- bugkid: they are being pretty shaky here and there and I feel like I could flip on them at any time, but not my first pick
- ara: Probably my top pick at this moment. Not their fault, just process of elimination. Weiss aside, I'm probably most curious about them, but also they definitely come from another community.
- weiss: likely not voting themselves and we shouldn't lynch, definitely sucks if wolf, but at worst, it's a good pr nightkill

[Hateandhatred]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

While it's only d0 as you say... there's probably only going to be 3 days total, is the issue; we do sort of have to force some early reads!!! It's perfectly fine to not have a full readlist, but do you have a top 2 town/top 2 mafia that you want to talk about, at least? Or just 1 mafia, I suppose, with only 2 mafia in total!!!

I'm not from here, but I did figure most people here already know each other, from the way you talk? Personally I've only played with Weiss before and maybe leetic (not sure if we've ever actually been in the same game together), though I've heard of Raeko/Roundbox/MixMasterLar!!!!

I think they all represented fiffer in the world champs or something, could be wrong, but fiffer is quite goated there.

And yeah, but out of everyone here, I have the least experience. However, to my credit, I think everyone knows I actually do turn it on post d0 because I care about voting history a lot. I literally complain about this every single game I'm in.

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

I'm not following the logic behind this vote especially given the quote you quoted from Haku

If I'm being lynched and I'm the guy that kills the person I vote for, then I'm solving them as well. If I'm that person and I'm insta'd, then that power is flushed down the toilet

[FreezinIce]

Hateandhatred (3): bugkid, Arapocalypse, roundbox
Weiss (3): MixMasterLar, mellon_collie, Hateandhatred
bugkid (2): Hakulyte, leetic

Not voting: Weiss

====

EOD in about an hour

[Hateandhatred]

to clarify my last answer, I parked my vote on weiss in case I was insta'd before I caught up with the thread in case of an insta in case I triggered the effect myself

I'm not pushing weiss

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

If you had to, who would you vote outside of Hate/Weiss?


Also, can you give a general readlist? I only really saw you give out the basic reads much earlier in the day, not really clear where you're at in general now!!

I don't want to vote for Weiss and want to take my vote off them and put it onto Hate, will do so closer to EOD probably once Lar gets back

I don't love Lar's push on Weiss now that we know they might take a random town with them if they die. However it does fit along with Lar's general hatred for inactives and I don't see it as necessarily wolfy coming from him, even if I think it's the wrong play

I still have a town lean on leetic

maybe I would look at Bug or roundbox? Bug for their potential slip. I totally get the brain fart thing, it's just super weird to have the specific brain fart of turning "town" into "wolf" when describing your own role idk... it's so silly and simple but maybe that is just it

roundbox for potential Bug connection and also I feel like he's made a few "easy" reads

Haku is also taking more of a back seat than I am used to and it does make me go hmmmm a little bit. Usually Haku would be posting a bunch of ideas and theories but it seemed like they were willing to accept things at face value which goes against how Haku usually plays very paranoid and thinking of lots of crazy potential worlds


But I really think Hate is the better option today