TWG Turbo 37: Der Freischütz [GAME THREAD]

[leetic]

bugkid666

[bugkid666]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

That being said, even if they are mafia then it doesn't mean anything because there are no vanilla wolves here regardless and it was accidental anyway???

that was also my thought but figured people wouldnt care enough about that to be a real defense lol

[leetic]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

i'll rephrase and say that i think its pretty unfounded to have any solid wolf leads right now. at best it's tentative speculation or "gray area" otherwise it looks like youre bussing. i see where you're coming from but i think i just have a different perspective on straight up reading someone wolf d0

It's three hours to EoD, if we do not have any reasons to read someone as wolf that's not good. Maybe you could at least list the players from most to least towny or do a trustfall exercise?

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by leetic

Can you elaborate here?

My light townread on mellon was because it felt like they really just felt like the mechanical discussion was going nowhere, and was actively trying to push the game forward into making actual reads!!!!


Also, just the bits about trying to force out some game-related thoughts to put something out there + expressing the part where they feel biased towards townreading people because they know them, those thoughts in particular just have little towny vibes in them!!


That being said, it's specifically a light townread because it's not a very in-depth read; just good enough to roll with for the moment and start things up, though!!!

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

IAnyways, I do think your posting so far has been towny regardless; I actually think this particular read is towny because of how you're being hypocritical about how you're treating me and Leetic (calling me mafia/Leetic town) when we undertook similar actions (mechanics stuff), and mafia tend to be more self-conscious about being hypocritical about things/don't tend to rock the boat as much, especially coming out with the first major mafia read of the thread!!! In short, you're probably just incorrect town here!!


(Also there's the whole "town spinning wheels in the thread" vibe that you've been giving off, in your last few posts!!!!)

There's a world of difference of what Leetic did and you did, even if you're ultimately posting similar things. The context of no one having posted and having a clean slate versus someone making a post of substance that has to be addressed is a pretty big gap.

And yeah, you do have to react. Hell, that is a large part of the game! But you also have to push it forward to and add to it and I just didn't see that from you. Still don't.

I appreciate the town read but I'll ignore that backhanded compliment for now

Originally Posted by leetic

. Still doesn't change the fact that there are better people to flip right now I feel.

Cast a vote, make a case and give some follow up alternatives my man, let's see the argument

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

i'll rephrase and say that i think its pretty unfounded to have any solid wolf leads right now. at best it's tentative speculation or "gray area" otherwise it looks like youre bussing. i see where you're coming from but i think i just have a different perspective on straight up reading someone wolf d0

Fair, but I think wolf leans are pretty inevitable for towns to find even on day one. Rarely will a real town not at least tinfoil someone

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

My light townread on mellon was because it felt like they really just felt like the mechanical discussion was going nowhere, and was actively trying to push the game forward into making actual reads!!!!

:/
Idk how I feel about this point

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hateandhatred

I don't know if I necessarily agree with this. There's no way to know if one of the two wagons is even a wolf, and it forces whoever has this power to follow the majority whenever there's pressure on them, and since they're not scum themselves, it assumes that the other wagon is a wolf, and frankly, I think it overly narrows their personal scope, since they have information no one else has (they know they are actually a PR and therefore look at the game from a different perspective)

I also feel like this puts a lot of strange scrutiny over the person being threathened with a lynch like "wait, they're not budging, maybe they are the PR" making us more likely to derail from a better target. I do see value in it, but frankly they should just play their own game, and to avoid having two potential mislynch, it's probably better for them to claim anyway. In fact, I think the true value of blues here is in staying hidden and alive so that we can eventually have them claim in order to mathematically solve the game.

I dunno if my logic works out, but I think we shouldn't "obviously" agree that this is how it should be. Thoughts?

When I say wagoned people should generally be voting the counterwagon at EoD, it's under the assumption that both people are in the general PoE; sure the counterwagon could be town, but it helps to narrow it down!!



That being said, if we ensure everyone is voting someone at EoD regardless, then that's also a perfectly fine way to ensure that we at least get the shot off somehow/it doesn't get lost, and it's fine to ignore this!!!

[MixMasterLar]

I do know how I feel about people not voting

Sad

Anyone making their first votes under an hour from EOD gets to go straight to the shitlist tomorrow

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by mellon_collie

sure I'll throw a vote on hateandhatred for now

I don't like that he showed up but didn't follow through

General question: does Hate usually tend to take like, 2 hours to type up a response multi-quote like he did here?

If yes, then okay we'll move on; if not, it does feel like he was a little frozen here!!

That being said, I don't want to go to him being mafia if he's just really slow at typing!!!

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

:/
Idk how I feel about this point

Care to elaborate?

[bugkid666]

Originally Posted by leetic

It's three hours to EoD, if we do not have any reasons to read someone as wolf that's not good. Maybe you could at least list the players from most to least towny or do a trustfall exercise?

unfortunately much of this is meta reads which i know isnt super helpful

most to least towny
mellonxcollie - (admittedly i am very bad at reading raeko, i can't differentiate her wolf/town games)
MML - seems to be perpetuating good conversation in a productive way towards a common goal, approaching things from genuine reaction rather than a systematic way like a wolf might
haku - seems to be commenting on things in a realistic way, not trying to sway people but just voicing their honest opinions. seems towny
ara - not super sure, more gray area but leaning town
leetic - null, not really sure what to think but leaning towards town. just not used to playing with someone that aggressive out the gate (not inherently a bad thing)
rb - see what mml posted and that set off some flags for me. roundbox i also find hard to read and i've been pocketed by him before for simply agreeing with me, so i'm wary
hateandhatred - something about his walls of reactions seems very performative. not willing to give out much of his opinions without commenting on someone elses' first (ie it's easy to look like youre accomplishing something when you do this). not inherently wolf behavior but its more than i can say for anyone else

???
weiss

unfairly, i am nervous to play with sunfan or star lol

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

Personally I've found things that appear to be slips usually tend not to be though, more often than not...



But also like... maybe??? I didn't actually connect the dots between "vanilla wolf" and "never randed wolf" while skimming!!!!



That being said, even if they are mafia then it doesn't mean anything because there are no vanilla wolves here regardless and it was accidental anyway???

More often than not, you're probably right. But slips definitely do happen for real too. it's happened to me on multiple occasions

The way I'm seeing it is Bug laments about not rolling wolf and says "I'm always Vanilla town" most games. Because Bug is used to always being town and making this post each game, they went to make that post again but kinda jumbled it up in their head and typed wolf since that's their role this time

Does this make sense? idk, probably not. Don't think it's the strongest thing we've got today anyway

[roundbox]

Originally Posted by MixMasterLar

I do know how I feel about people not voting

Sad

Anyone making their first votes under an hour from EOD gets to go straight to the shitlist tomorrow

you know me and my propensity to vote early


that being said, I am actively looking for a place to put my vote but H&H is probably 30 minutes away from another wallpost for me to read him

I like Ara's defense. Lar saying "And yeah, you do have to react. Hell, that is a large part of the game! But you also have to push it forward to and add to it and I just didn't see that from you. Still don't." seems like awfully high expectations for someone that just reentered thread after saying they'd be gone for a hot minute

[leetic]

Originally Posted by bugkid666

unfortunately much of this is meta reads which i know isnt super helpful

most to least towny
mellonxcollie - (admittedly i am very bad at reading raeko, i can't differentiate her wolf/town games)
MML - seems to be perpetuating good conversation in a productive way towards a common goal, approaching things from genuine reaction rather than a systematic way like a wolf might
haku - seems to be commenting on things in a realistic way, not trying to sway people but just voicing their honest opinions. seems towny
ara - not super sure, more gray area but leaning town
leetic - null, not really sure what to think but leaning towards town. just not used to playing with someone that aggressive out the gate (not inherently a bad thing)
rb - see what mml posted and that set off some flags for me. roundbox i also find hard to read and i've been pocketed by him before for simply agreeing with me, so i'm wary
hateandhatred - something about his walls of reactions seems very performative. not willing to give out much of his opinions without commenting on someone elses' first (ie it's easy to look like youre accomplishing something when you do this). not inherently wolf behavior but its more than i can say for anyone else

???
weiss

unfairly, i am nervous to play with sunfan or star lol

You say it's meta reads, yet you say you can't distinguish between your top townread's town and wolf metas? It seems you're giving them leeway for something you penalized roundbox on

[MixMasterLar]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

General question: does Hate usually tend to take like, 2 hours to type up a response multi-quote like he did here?

If yes, then okay we'll move on; if not, it does feel like he was a little frozen here!!

That being said, I don't want to go to him being mafia if he's just really slow at typing!!!

I felt it wasn't a lot for the timeframe but it's been so long since we've played together. If it's a habit this game we can go back to it but like you in hesitate to jump to a scumread just for it

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

Care to elaborate?

No, actually

[mellon_collie]

Originally Posted by Arapocalypse

General question: does Hate usually tend to take like, 2 hours to type up a response multi-quote like he did here?

If yes, then okay we'll move on; if not, it does feel like he was a little frozen here!!

That being said, I don't want to go to him being mafia if he's just really slow at typing!!!

I don't recall Hate taking this long in the past. He does make wall posts but usually they aren't this spread apart. Maybe someone with better memory than me can chime in here

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Nearly everyone tbh.

The only pile I'm less comfortable about is Ara, H&H and now bug because of that specific post.

As for leetic, I can at least agree that the posting style is how it is for NSM in general. Their forums are more role driven. So, at least that aspect of their play seems genuine to me.

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

Yeah, kinda just sheeping you overall.

Successfully figured out how to multi-quote here!!!!


Anyways, these Hakulyte posts are interesting; the first one feels like they're jumping on previous suspicions a bit too easily, mainly just the commentary feel to it!!



That being said, the second feels a bit too wolfy to be a wolf; just very self-conscious in outright admitting they're just sheeping? Like... is that really it? Not sure, need to think on that one a little more!!!



(I'm just going to skim catch up fully after this, lowkey feel bad about spamming the thread a bit!!)

[Arapocalypse]

Originally Posted by Hakulyte

I'll be voting bugkid666 this phase. It's going to bother me the entire game if nothing happens.

Also this in particular, like this is such a towny sentence to make!!!!!!!!!

[bugkid666]

Originally Posted by leetic

You say it's meta reads, yet you say you can't distinguish between your top townread's town and wolf metas? It seems you're giving them leeway for something you penalized roundbox on

because i know what roundbox has done in the past to pocket me whereas raeko behaves the same way regardless of her alignment. thinking it over again and reading raeko's newer posts, i might put mml above her, maybe even haku too. i still think raeko is probably town but wanted to be upfront about the fact that i dont actually have any basis for that