TWG CXLIII: SK Loses Again Game Thread

[DaBackpack]

Papa hitler's**

[YoshL]

zenith going to ask confirmed town what his reads are yes good

[yo man im awesome]

Just a random thought i had before i go into my test; i personally don't like full roster reads lists. Most of the time at least half of a reads list feels forced and included for the sake of including it. I think unless someone asks why you find a specific person townie it makes sense to focus a reads list on the scum reads. People will try and force out reasons for null/town on other people and it just creates misinterpreted reads from others.

[yo man im awesome]

Idk how much sense that made but i thought it relevant.

Also i should clarify: reads lists from non-confirmed towns

[DaBackpack]

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

Just a random thought i had before i go into my test; i personally don't like full roster reads lists. Most of the time at least half of a reads list feels forced and included for the sake of including it. I think unless someone asks why you find a specific person townie it makes sense to focus a reads list on the scum reads. People will try and force out reasons for null/town on other people and it just creates misinterpreted reads from others.

I actually agree with this
Reads are more convicning when they come organically

[DaBackpack]

well a reads list is good for collecting and synthesizing information at least

[DaBackpack]

I ate too much pizza, I'll be on later

[DaBackpack]

I wish people would look at xel though

[_Zenith_]

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

I wish people would look at xel though

The biggest notice from him is he isn't his meme self this game.

Like, he seems held back by something but what that something is would be beyond me.

I was hopin' for some burd but he flew south for the winter

[AragakiAyase]

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

The biggest notice from him is he isn't his meme self this game.

Like, he seems held back by something but what that something is would be beyond me.

I was hopin' for some burd but he flew south for the winter

maybe you're talking about this

Originally Posted by XelNya

Plus everyone gets mad when all I post is gifs.

he's definitely trying but I'm not sure how much substance there is, like when I pointed out earlier that a bunch of his reads seem unsubstantiated

he's also definitely trying to avoid being read as his wolf meta which idk what to think about

[rzr]

wow holy shit I finally got to the end of this thread, here

[rzr]

The only thing I get from Xel's entire reads list is fluff. I'm rereading it now, and can't see much to comment on, he just kinda agrees with people or comments on something here and there. Nothing is offered from this huge post. He also seems to mention himself quite a bit, in just about every single reply in fact. Which says he's self-aware to me, meaning, from reading thie big post, he seems only conerned with addressing himself, with a handful of quotes that he would agree on. I don't know xel, he just doesn't seem anything like the town version I've seen so far. Moving on.

Zenith's big post, on the other hand, had a lot more to offer. Though I don't agree with how he got to his conclusion, I do seem ymia as a good possiblity. He also had too much null to really comment on there.

Originally Posted by YoshL

"idgaf if i get lynched d0" is a very dangerous phrase there

Ah, I missed that part of his post. But I can relate to it to a degree, it doesn't necessarily set off any alarms for me.

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

@YoshL and AA, being mislynched d0 is far better than getting mislynched d3 and that is what I thought of when I made the statement; I'd rather live trust me but I had a really shitty start

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Honestly besides me playing like shit nope, there really isn't a better answer besides my typical sacrificial lamb when town aligned. I'm going to be putting in a lot of work today as it progresses in fear I'm still the "best" lynch for D0.

and I'm currently still in the lead for being voted so I'm panicked but at the same time I'm definitely finding a wolf (still extremely confident ymia is one wolf) while I still live.While I'm at it, rzr is sketchy as fuck right now and I would keep eyes on him (specifically his entrance back in after he disappeared).

I can save some of the information right now by saying I am vanilla cheesecake but the only solid confirmation of that is a lynch or a peek on me (which I would advise any peeking role to not look at me because you can get far better information on anyone else but myself).

It looks a lot like you're trying to inadvertenly pass the lynch, very subtely etching the world lynch on people's minds while maintaining that you should be distanced from it. I rearranged things here because these are back to back posts that seem to tell a different story. I don't think you are a good lynch candidate for today if it helps, I just would like to hear your input.

Originally Posted by roundbox

On Zenith and ymia: I don't think his list was necessarily as forced as you're making it out to be. Yes, ymia might need to do more defending and have better reasoning, but I think the post makes sense given his situation.

That's what I think, but I have to iso ymia at this point.

DaBackpack stuff does not come out of the blue, in my opinion. He is one of the more common names being tossed around for a lynch and it fits in with the context of the post.


Where's rzr and James May?

I like DBP here. His deflecting of the SK question gave me a feel that he had something up hhis sleeve, but whatever it is he hasn't slipped in any ways I've seen yet. He seems genuine like he has in previous games, though I haven't seen him deal with much heat really. And I'm here, dunno about James (:

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25

Because if you're really trying to push your 97% certainty that YMIA is scum I think you would've tried to argue with round and convince him otherwise (ie that your reads were right and his refutation of them are wrong) instead of arguing a minor, almost semantic point.

Fact, Zenith is a professional tunnler. Though ymia hasn't given him much to work with.
On that note, post 655 is a good response. I read it a few times trying to pick something out of it. I don't think it sounds good to say you want ymia lynched, p ersonally I don't ever like lynching anyone unless they're confirmed, I always feel uneasy till the end. But you had a good defense of your points against ymia, which I would like to hear his defense of. Also still need to iso him.
Xel's following post at 657 started off strong, but it doesn't sway me. He is posting much more content and when he quotes things he doesn't seem to really care what the response is, more like he has his mind made up or something.

Originally Posted by Red Blaster

Exactly my point.
Which is why I don't see how others ARE coming up with scumreads on him.

I didn't like his in and out at first, bad gut vibe, but I need to iso still because I've seen a lot more posts from him since that night.

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

It was a response to the section that pertained me; it wasn't me being defensive because I'm not currently being attacked (and by attack I mean like YoshL starting to go ham on me). FTR, what you stated just now can be directly applied to you because I had pressured you in that post which caused you to make mention of it in your reads list.

No Zenith, I'm just trying to voice my opinions without getting into an argument with you again. I dunno why you only commented on the part that pertained to you, I was hoping for more response from people. It's not personal. I also don't have you as the bigeest wolf in my book. You are contributing what I would consider (mostly) helpful knowledge, and except for a few defensive posts/skim on ymia I wouldn't want you as the to candidate today.

Originally Posted by roundbox

Xel, what the hell does any of this mean? Yes, we appreciate the commentary on YoshL, but what is your interpretation on his alignment? The point about YoshL's aggression tactics has been already covered by a few people, so bringing it up again here isn't really doing anything. Would it be accurate in saying you feel like YoshL comes off as more townie in this situation?

Something I observed here is that he only seems to address yoshL's opinions in full. Just an observation.
AA, post 696 where you address my post:
I wouldn't put it past them to come out so strong and immediately be on opposite sides of the court, trying hard to stay away from the middle. If that analogy makes sense. Sorry if I mentioned this meta too much, it just seemed like I was getting chastised for it. The meta itself is what I was defending, but it seems moot anyway.
I will go back and reread your reads because only so many people have posted like this, which I need to review still.
Yosh could be the SK because a good tactic could be to steer the SK word away from his name. Pinning it on someone so responsive, lol, like DBP assured to keep the term SK moving and not in his direction.
Leaves an unanswered question at the end, does roundbox do this much digging as a wolf? Would help establish that meta, but I'm not gonna ask anyone to dig for that if I' mnot gonna lol. I'll just wait till I see his wolf game

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

If you want to tell me that my post calling a team of you/AA/Yoshl as weak and no confidence, youre just flat out wrong. I specifically said that i want people voting for who they want lynched now, of top candidates, not someone who isnt worth hunting this phase. I wouldnt make a vote/scumread post that says that while having no cinfidence in my own vote. I think youre scummy, and with that confidence, i know that even if you werent, your toxic/bad input wont detract from the game further.

As defensive as it is, it comes across genuine to me. I think a zenith/ymia slot could be possible here.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

so who are you actually scumreading? You mentioned zenith and ymia but then you pull this shitvoting. I also want to know what you're thinking about the rest of the players, you focused on a few but haven't given very conclusive reads on those.

I hope I've clarified here a little, but remember this is being written as I read the thread not as the game progresses so rapidly. So a lot of what I write can contradict itself as I come into new info, Zenith touched on this earlier I believe. At this part, with a few pages to go still, I'd say the person I'm looking at most is Xel. There are a lot of nulls, I'd stick you/DBP/choof in my town pile atm. And plop obvi.

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

And you arent my top wolf, i think AA is more wolfy imo than you. I do however think your posting is more toxic to the game overall.

Does this seem legit or forced? It reinforces his previous statement to a degree, but throws me off. What about AA? (you may have said it, still need to iso you). And if he isn't your top, does that imply you still believe he is scummy or are his detracting posts genuine to you? If so, I'd sit on my previous y/z statement for now.

Originally Posted by roundbox

Red Blaster, who are you looking at for a lynch today? It's nice that you touch upon one of the top lynch candidates, but I think you really need to do some scum hunting.

Another excellent point that went over my head. I think I mentinoed already that RB seems more invested this game, more ready to clash horns. I would think a wolf Roundbox wouldn't prod a wolf RB in this way. town points for round.

Now in post 703 Zenith hits me again with some good defense of his points, an excellent reply to round's suspicions. What bothers me still is that Zenith seems to handpick the points he wants to reply to and the ones he wants to ignore. Perhaps it's just me.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

meh

the only reason you seem to think I'm scummy is omgus and my "general and irrelevant reads". You question how I can lean zenith town after I said he's playing poorly and then immediately lean you and yoshl scum, but you clearly didn't read my post very carefully because I stated reasons for all of those. Your dismissal of my reads is laughably hypocritical because you don't even pick anything out in particular (aside from what I just mentioned which doesn't help your case), you just say that they're bad reads so you're leaning me scum now

This is true and as I haven't heard your name mentioned that much I would really like to hear ymia back up his accusation of you.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

oh don't forget to use meta that other people have talked about but you don't actually have any experience with, that couldn't possibly lead you wrong

ayyyy story of my life

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Oh but I am. I will die for it.

Setting it in stone so soon?

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

I was referring to rzr, yes, and I know rzr won't let a post that mentions him go by unbeknownst to him. If I got no reaction, it would've gone two different ways: 1) I pressure him more, and 2) I take my attention elsewhere while noting rzr not responding.

Don't be a prick, you're pushing the bait too hard. I still don't know what pressure you're reffering to, and I really hate how you got me to reply to this shit statement (since depsite what AA said I think we all have to pick and choose what accusations to reply to sometimes to avoid arguments or suspicions). Don't call that a slip, I'm trying to be nice.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

You have a tendency to tunnel strongly/lock in (like on ymia right now) which is dangerous if you have a misread/confirmation bias. I'm not saying you do but it doesn't hurt to reevaluate and you should definitely do so before d0. being misdirected if you're town is almost as bad as being scum

I believe I mentioned earlier how Zenith is a professional tunnler. And I see a lack of that here, even with him and yosh at the start.

Originally Posted by roundbox

how about you wait until he posts an argument before digging into him

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

No?

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

ymia reread your own post and acknowledge the contradiction.

Sadly, this kinda says it all. He isn't enforcing his accusations against AA the way I was hoping, AA is doing it for him.

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

AA yes your posts would largely not help town. But at least your posts do something. Id rather a more active later phase than a more active one, and if youre both wolves im going to hunt the one that doesnt promote discussion first.

But you aren't. You and Zenith have tossed around some namecalling or something, but I would like to see your reasoning to lynch him more. His posts, however detracting they can be sometimes, seem to offer a good amount of substance to me.

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

Im going to assume you have this megapost already complete, so just post it, withholding information is not good

I'd tend to think Zenith speaks his mind without holding it back more often than not.

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Wrong assumption, it is not the last day of the phase yet.

Does this mean I'm wrong lol? Looking forward to this one.

Originally Posted by Red Blaster

I don't really know. Zenith is shooting his way up there simply with his attitude about not moving his vote. There's no way he could be absolutely certain that ymia is a hit given it's a 1/13 shot and he's never played with yo man before so he's not basing this off of anything except for content in this game thus far..which only he seems to be finding major issue(s) with. This all seems like very antitown behavior.

So who do you see as a bigger threat, ymia or Zenith? Do you think they are aligned?

I'd normally say James would be a good lynch here, but knowing that we have Charu waiting behind the scenes I'm not really too keen on getting rid of a slot that may end up being taken over by someone who will actually play.

I could see myself getting behind the rzr lynch. I feel like I've brought up quite a few points regarding his weird posts which he's made no response to yet despite posting in the thread multiple times.

Everyone else is really not on my radar as far as being a lynch today.

I hope I have addressed what I was talking about a million times, if you have any questions for me that aren't about voting PLEASE ask them, because I want more to work with from you here. I get a feel there's one of two possibilities with you:
1. You're a pr that's why you've been so defensive. Maybe I'm the only one that picked up on it, maybe I'm just over reading it. but I don't think you're green, blue could be a stretch.
2. You are town as fuck, you feel a little more comfy this game and came back at some people with some quick retorts because it fit in the conversation at the time.

That said, all that bothers me is your content. You also seem to handpick what points you want to reply to and what you don't. This does align with the human meta I have for you though >>

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

except this is TWG and if you say not to discuss something people will discuss why you said not to discuss something


what do people think about a james may lynch? lynching inactives is dangerous because it's more or less a coin flip but he's being a worse version of reuben who at least usually makes one decent post a phase

Rather than target inactives I would rather pursue the replacement. Charu would offer content to say the least. Is there anything Jame's has posted thus far? Also, I never find it towny to lynch inactives.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

zenith "locks in" his vote quite frequently d1 regardless of alignment. what's more helpful in figuring out his alignment is where the reason for locking his vote in came from. His thought process seems alright regarding ymia. last game I played with him (slopefiring) he was a wolf and went hard after me out of the blue which was a red flag to me but I don't really see that this game

Ding ding fucking mindmeld. Just answered my question about Zenith sticking his vote, and my point about him not tunnelling the way I've seem him as a wolf. His posts aren't perfect, but he's climbed down the ladder on my scale quite a bit.

Roundbox post 735 in regards to my big post:
I only brought you up because I do believe I had been asked to clarify early on why I had a flag on you. I wanted to point out that was an off-the-bat flag and that I'd revisit all points I have made to clarify. I'm going to pause here and come back to this because there's a lot to address.

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

Theres a lot of new lingo in this game that wasnt used often when i last played. Omgus, slank, pocket, wtf is going on

I can pretty much gather what slank was, but idk about omgus and pocket, can someone give like a 2 second explanation cause again im class

Mhm. Took me some time and questions to pick on shit.

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

Classroom is a lot harder than lecture

You basically said youre okay with Zenith alive but youre also okay with him dead, what is that even supposed to mean. If it's okay for him to be dead, then shouldnt he be dead?

This is the same thing as when you said Zenith was not your top lynch.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

there's tons to work with, if you don't know where to start how about starting with yoshl

What about yosh? I'm gonna iso him soon since he seems to have fallen off quite rapidly.
DBP and I mindmeld on Xel with his post 721 it seems.
Also Zenith's response to plop's accusation didn't sit well with me, but I still don't know where to pick at.

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

Now I have to ask, if you were an investigative role would you check me after stating this?

My natural assumption says no because again, checking me in general is a bad move plus if I were to be GF, you'd waste a check because I'd come up clean.

If all were said and done, would you then condemn me?

Zenith, reverse the question. If you were a seer would you bother to seer "Zenith" at this point, or would you pressure him as d1 lynch? I think this is a good point, and I don't buy that you say you couldn't pull it off.
That said, I also don't think you would go to those lengths at this point of the game.

Originally Posted by YoshL

i think it's more that he's purposefully placing himself in a WIFOM situation that's the most scummy

What does WIFOM mean? If it means what I assume than I would not be happy with Zenith's replies here.

Originally Posted by AragakiAyase

if you were doing this seriously you should place yourself above plop. not going to push this further though, I'll wait to see your basis for the list

This was my old list, where I was at at the start of this current post, which has obviously changed, but I will go back and address things too.

Originally Posted by Red Blaster

I'm more curious as to why he placed James above anybody.

If it were color coded it would be green to gray to red.

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25

I know you've got a post coming, but in case you don't answer it there: if you've got YMIA and zenith as your scummiest does that mean you think they're on a team together?

At this point, no. I think I mentioned that, I don't see them aligned, though I think it's possible to have a wolf between them. Was there any interaction with ymia between yosh when Zenoth and yosh were going at it?

Originally Posted by choof

who at the bottom of your list are on a team together

xel/RB/ymia circa 21:36 EST
subject to change

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

Assholes at pap Johns forgot to sprinkle hot sauce on my buffalo chicken pizza

Fuck is the point of calling it buffalo that those shitheads.
Plop's post on 796 and roundbox's earlier are something I want to come back on, so I'll wait for that.

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25

Since it was brought up before I'd like to say absolutely no lynching James May here. Charu is waiting offstage, so let's use our lynch power to tackle something more worthwhile. Similarly, pressure votes on him are useless...it's like banging on the door of a closed restaurant demanding they serve you food. Who will hear your cries?

The neighbors.

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25

Oh, forgot to mention before, YMIA's back and forths a little while back were the towniest things he's done so far. Still think he's scummy, but his attitude was a step in the right direction.

Is anybody reading him as town at all? Not an entirely good sign if no.

I'd agree he is putting in more effort as of late, but I don't see it as towny really. Maybe it's just me, I expect town to back up their accusations a little more.

Originally Posted by MrPopadopalis25

*kicks up feet* ahh, being the IC is great. I get to say whatever dumbass shit comes to mind and not give a hoot how it makes me look. You guys should try it sometime.

Imagine the use of this power in the wrong hands haha.

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

Just a random thought i had before i go into my test; i personally don't like full roster reads lists. Most of the time at least half of a reads list feels forced and included for the sake of including it. I think unless someone asks why you find a specific person townie it makes sense to focus a reads list on the scum reads. People will try and force out reasons for null/town on other people and it just creates misinterpreted reads from others.

Okay, so do me a favor, take the roster list and simply comment on what you think about people. If they're null or you think you don't want to say something leave it blank. Or just write who you think are wolves, so we know you aren't forcing it.

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

I actually agree with this
Reads are more convicning when they come organically

Whhile I fully agree with this, I do like to have people's quick-lists to contrast.

Originally Posted by DaBackpack

I wish people would look at xel though

Agreed.

Originally Posted by _Zenith_

The biggest notice from him is he isn't his meme self this game.

Like, he seems held back by something but what that something is would be beyond me.

I was hopin' for some burd but he flew south for the winter

Not sure if I'm right with this, but I think DBP refers to what I meant in that his content was not really getting much across.

[rzr]

xel/RB/ymia circa 21:36 EST
subject to change

I can feel comfy with this for now. In fact, I'll even vote xel for now because I do feel strongest here. Having watched him from a wolf POV he seems almost the opposite of how I perceived him as town. Hope this doesn't make you dislike me anymore, buddy.

[rzr]

I wouldn't mind putting ymia back into null, I see him on here and would like to hear more on the AA stuff and maybe his Zenithing. I'm going back on that roundbox and plop posts I said I was gonna right now, but I need a fucking blunt been sitting here reading this for like 2 hours again. Who'd think almost 900 posts in 2 days lol

[rzr]

On second thought, I'll go back on those 2 posts tomorrow. I work all day so I'll have plenty of time to beat things out with you guys about what I've said, I'm gonna rest my brain with some arrows and ganja for now. While I'm playing I'll try to answer anything abouit what I've posted thus far.

[yo man im awesome]

Still on my phone; so im not gonna try and quote that giant post, but I did not say that Zenith wasnt my top lynch. I said that AA was my top wolf. You cant lynch multiple people on the same day, and I think Zenith is a better lynch target overall than AA.

I got out of my test and started thinking about my current reads, before i opened the thread. I cant say Ive looked nearly as hard as other people, and while my reads felt more in depth at the time of writing them, they are definitely more gut reads than studied reads. That said, i am still confident in Zenith nonetheless, and still very very suspicious of Yoshl and AA. Phone's dying so im gonna go and charge it/get my laptop maybe

[rzr]

This is fair for now, I hope to see something worth convincing at least myself that Zenith is worth my vote. Hopefully we can get that by end of day.
I also really wish we could see some more from V, and I hate that I have like no meta on him at all. At least someone like James I expect to be a certain way (aloof, in this instance). Choof still reminds me of storn atm, so that would be towny.
I guess I should reorder my list before I go to bed

[YoshL]

[yo man im awesome]

And since you asked;

1. Vendetta21 - null
3. XelNya - Mild scum
4. rzr - Town
5. _Zenith_ - Scum
6. DaBackPack - Town
7. roundbox - Town
8. James May - null
9. Yoshl - Scum
10. Red Blaster - null
11. AragakiAyase - Scum
12. choof - Town

I'll try to find what I can for this

[AragakiAyase]

from rzr's big post

p ersonally I don't ever like lynching anyone unless they're confirmed

you're pretty much never going to get that, even if there's a red check there could be counterclaims and the like so never 100%. at some point you have to go with what logic and intuition tell you.

He is posting much more content and when he quotes things he doesn't seem to really care what the response is, more like he has his mind made up or something.

what do you mean by he's posting much more content? that implies something good which the rest of this sentence does not imply

Does this seem legit or forced? It reinforces his previous statement to a degree, but throws me off.

he answered this here

Originally Posted by yo man im awesome

LoL is a bad game and the community is worse

AA yes your posts would largely not help town. But at least your posts do something. Id rather a more active later phase than a more active one, and if youre both wolves im going to hunt the one that doesnt promote discussion first.

but I still don't like it

I believe I mentioned earlier how Zenith is a professional tunnler. And I see a lack of that here, even with him and yosh at the start.

I see him doing it with ymia pretty hard right now. he's also prodding you a fair bit after laying off yoshl

Rather than target inactives I would rather pursue the replacement. Charu would offer content to say the least. Is there anything Jame's has posted thus far? Also, I never find it towny to lynch inactives.

I agree that we shouldn't lynch james and that it isn't towny to target inactives. I threw that out there to see if anyone was really for it which would definitely ring scummy

What about yosh? I'm gonna iso him soon since he seems to have fallen off quite rapidly.

do you have a read on him? I would also be careful about isoing so much because the interactions/context are also critical

What does WIFOM mean?

reverse psychology



that being said I feel much more comfortable with rzr now. the last two small posts after the big one make me feel like he's a lot more confident than he normally is. his thought process seems natural to me and I don't see anything forced. I also see a lot of questioning and a lack of sheeping/blindly agreeing which is also town points.