Why aren't rates above 1.0 counting for scores?

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by Xx{Fallen}xX

The only thing GT effects is veteran status, i dont see it as a bad thing that GT whoring could be made a little easier. It could just be that im the one of the few who dont care about overall rank at all.

Well, 3 billion points is 3 billion points, no matter how you look at it (at least in my opinion). If you are vibrating like all hell and pushing yourself to the limit for those points, then you probably deserve that veteran title anyway.

GTS whoring takes dedication, especially if you are going to vibrate your way there. In terms of that, all this would do is give people more songs to listen to while they attack their overall rank really (as opposed to just RATO, or vROFL if they have it).

As for what mi40 said, I'm unsure about how I feel about giving more credits for rate, but I doubt crazy levels of credit boosting would occur even with that addition. Like, I would love to see you actually play EHHS 2.0 rate for even 1 hour and tell me approximately how many credits you got (x2 like the suggestion). You'd probably be ridiculously exhausted after like a half hour.

EDIT: Multiplying the base value by rates might actually be a bad idea, due to extremely easy songs that only give out a credit or two. For example, you could play power at 40x, get 1 credit, which would then turn into 40. You would get 40 credits in like 7 seconds, consistently, without all that much effort.

[PaperclipGames]

I think credits should be increased by the muliplyer of the rate

Bad idea for reasons given above.
For comparison, take a 4 minute song at 5 nps, and a 2 minute song at 10 nps. Both will have roughly equally as many arrows.
Playing the 4 min song on 2.0 rate would be of same difficulty as the 2 minute one, but if the rate is a multiplier, it will yield twice as many credits; in other words, things get skewed, and playing very easy songs on high rates will get an inappropiately high amount of credits.

[YoshL]

if you do something at 1000000000000000000000x rate, and just vibrate as fast as you can, you'll hit maybe like 40 goods ish? i forget if that's good enough for even 1 credit, but if it is, you'd get so many credits lol

[HalfStep]

Just pointing out that you guys need to stop mentioning frames in your arguments, rates don't touch the frames AT ALL. Try any wall on any rate and it'll keep the same structure, but be more or less squished together. (So 1.581293481x won't fuck with the frames, it'll only make it 1.581293481x faster)

[Frank Munoz]

Originally Posted by YoshL

if you do something at 1000000000000000000000x rate, and just vibrate as fast as you can, you'll hit maybe like 40 goods ish? i forget if that's good enough for even 1 credit, but if it is, you'd get so many credits lol

You should show us <3
replayreplay

[YoshL]

Originally Posted by Frank Munoz

You should show us <3
replayreplay

i'm saying, if credits were multiplied based on the rate you played at.

also, i'm in no place to be even playing ffr, much less vibrating lol

[Frank Munoz]

Originally Posted by YoshL

i'm saying, if credits were multiplied based on the rate you played at.

also, i'm in no place to be even playing ffr, much less vibrating lol

oh.. :(
man, a replay of any chart at 1000000000000000x rate would be amazing

[YoshL]

you don't see the notes, or any of your PA registering until you fail

then the whole rest of the song goes by as misses

[mi40]

Originally Posted by HalfStep

Just pointing out that you guys need to stop mentioning frames in your arguments, rates don't touch the frames AT ALL. Try any wall on any rate and it'll keep the same structure, but be more or less squished together. (So 1.581293481x won't fuck with the frames, it'll only make it 1.581293481x faster)

oh thats even better haha

[PaperclipGames]

Originally Posted by HalfStep

Just pointing out that you guys need to stop mentioning frames in your arguments, rates don't touch the frames AT ALL. Try any wall on any rate and it'll keep the same structure, but be more or less squished together. (So 1.581293481x won't fuck with the frames, it'll only make it 1.581293481x faster)

UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

no

[mi40]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

no

clearly u dont get how this works

if somebody can't AAA a wall on 1.0 like skeletor/DIS then they clearly don't have enough speed for it

chances are on rates like 1.1 and 1.2 it's going to get even faster (doesn't matter if framers are 'fixed') and that'll create worse scores

and btw stifling development of additional features just because of one or two songs' levelranks (which aren't even that big of an issue) is just downright stupid

[Kibblre]

Originally Posted by TheSaxRunner05

Has anyone tried Within Life on rates, btw?

If you're hinting at the rolls in Within Life, yeah they're super easy on rates just can you can jump trill them. At 1.5 even the opening slow rolls can be jump trilled.

[PaperclipGames]

Originally Posted by mi40

clearly u dont get how this works

if somebody can't AAA a wall on 1.0 like skeletor/DIS then they clearly don't have enough speed for it

chances are on rates like 1.1 and 1.2 it's going to get even faster (doesn't matter if framers are 'fixed') and that'll create worse scores

and btw stifling development of additional features just because of one or two songs' levelranks (which aren't even that big of an issue) is just downright stupid

Point out where I was speaking about Skeletor. I know fuck all about Skeletor. My point is that I'm pretty sure that rates changes frames, and thus may fix framers or create any - in general.

[mi40]

Originally Posted by Kibblre

If you're hinting at the rolls in Within Life, yeah they're super easy on rates just can you can jump trill them. At 1.5 even the opening slow rolls can be jump trilled.

some of the 23 123 123 4 321 321 patterns on 1.5 get really hard though lmfao

[mi40]

Originally Posted by PaperclipGames

Point out where I was speaking about Skeletor. I know fuck all about Skeletor. My point is that I'm pretty sure that rates changes frames, and thus may fix framers or create any - in general.

yeah what im saying is this speculation of 'fixed framers' isn't a valid argument against higher rates recording, save for <3 songs on rates probably higher than 1.2, and even those songs should not prevent higher rates from recording

[Kibblre]

Originally Posted by mi40

some of the 23 123 123 4 321 321 patterns on 1.5 get really hard though lmfao

Yeah, I put it on 1.5 just to see how easy the rolls are but like you said those patterns are pretty hard. Doesn't seem that bad on 1.2 though.

[foxfire667]

Originally Posted by mi40

and btw stifling development of additional features just because of one or two songs' levelranks (which aren't even that big of an issue) is just downright stupid

Pretty much. The worst possible scenario I could foresee is perhaps one or two people luck out and fix a Skeletor BF or something, and I imagine even that is a bit of an exaggeration. Going to play a few songs people are bring up on rates so I can see if the trade off actually turns out in favor of the player:

These are just rate scores on the fly, and obviously aren't absolute proof or anything. I just wanted to see if I could get any scoring benefits overall, from playing some files on various rates.

Skeletor

This is Skeletor normally:


This is Skeletor on 1.3x rate:


The JS becomes ridiculously fast, and I would be pretty satisfied with myself getting into the wall with a mid SDG. I would definitely NOT use rates on Skeletor to pull the AAA on it, as it is too difficult to get to the wall with an AAA unless you have the speed for it. The reason why I chose 1.3x to post is because the wall on 1.1x / 1.2x for me felt more awkward to hit, and I really couldn't get it down even after several isolation attempts.

Here is the Skeletor wall normally.


Here is the wall on 1.3x rate.


Both of these walls to me pretty much felt like a luck fest, and it was only after several attempts and jumping around between the rates that I actually pulled the AAA's off in the first place. I will say that 1.3 has more reliable jump-trilling, but compared to the rest of the file it really isn't worth it.

Within life:
It was argued at 1.5 the rolls could be jump-trilled. Though within life at 1.5x rate does create some new jump-trilling possibilities, holy crap the rest of the file.

I have a AAA on it normally, and here is 1.5x rate:


My goodness, the jacks, the transitions, and pretty much everything about this file becomes really tough to keep PA at 1.5x. If you haven't AAA'd at 1x, you aren't touching 1.5x, ever.

[DossarLX ODI]

If the idea is to have rates count towards normal rate levelranks, that should be further discussed with someone in power that is editing the engines (e.g. Velocity or arcnmx)

I have no problems with higher rates being recorded. Worse scores don't overwrite someone's previous best anyways unless there's a glitch I don't know of.

[mi40]

hooray someone go bring this up or thread to velocity or arcmnx

[HalfStep]

Made an image for people that don't know how rates affect frames (they dont)
note: Pure Ruby ending rolls on 2.75x speedmod