What does it take for kids to learn?

[who_cares973]

so many repeated posts

[kmay]

wow... that was stupid. my internet shat out and it came back and just i have no idea XD

[ghost-]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

what are you talking about? it's not like tests are conducted in some lab somewhere shut off from the world. data is collected FROM real-life experiences and REAL people, so i'm not sure why you're implying the psychological motors aren't derived from these things.

If you didn't want to get insulted, then you shouldn't have called me a douche and showed a blatant misunderstanding of statistics. "golden rule," remember?

blaaah ffr crapped out for a second

I was making an observation about you, this is the internet, things like that happen. Also I never said I didn't want to get insulted, I was merely stating what was going on and how you should improve your behavior instead of becoming enraged.

I guess I didn't say what I wanted to say correctly, that did sound really stupid.

What I meant was that a person should probably experience both sides of the argument instead of just look at test data and absolutely trust it with all of your being. I was spanked (only a little) and I turned out very well. But say another kid was spanked just as much as I was and turned out completely f*cked up. It all depends on what type of person you are, and there are a great many people here arguing their cases. I have a friend who was never spanked and is still a little spoiled because of it. I also have a friend who was never spanked and is really outgoing on life, but doesn't have a whole lot of confidence and has some trust issues. It depends on what kind of person you are from the start. The tests you are following probably don't go this deep, or maybe they do and you just fail to acknowledge it? From what I've seen you've been strictly, "Spanking is almost always bad." and that's it.

EDIT: about the post thing, just click "post reply" once and wait. DON'T keep clicking. :P

[awein999]

Originally Posted by ghost-

blaaah ffr crapped out for a second

I was making an observation about you, this is the internet, things like that happen. Also I never said I didn't want to get insulted, I was merely stating what was going on and how you should improve your behavior instead of becoming enraged.

I guess I didn't say what I wanted to say correctly, that did sound really stupid.

What I meant was that a person should probably experience both sides of the argument instead of just look at test data and absolutely trust it with all of your being. I was spanked (only a little) and I turned out very well. But say another kid was spanked just as much as I was and turned out completely f*cked up. It all depends on what type of person you are, and there are a great many people here arguing their cases. I have a friend who was never spanked and is still a little spoiled because of it. I also have a friend who was never spanked and is really outgoing on life, but doesn't have a whole lot of confidence and has some trust issues. It depends on what kind of person you are from the start. The tests you are following probably don't go this deep, or maybe they do and you just fail to acknowledge it? From what I've seen you've been strictly, "Spanking is almost always bad." and that's it.

You are talking about specific individuals. I speak from a sociological view of social trends. A kid raised abusively is more likely to have issues in life than a kid who isn't raised abusively that is a fact.

[ghost-]

Originally Posted by awein999

You are talking about specific individuals. I speak from a sociological view of social trends. A kid raised abusively is more likely to have issues in life than a kid who isn't raised abusively that is a fact.

True good sir, yet we're talking about spanking here.

[kmay]

like i said. there is a differnce between abusing your child and spanking them.

[awein999]

Originally Posted by kmay

like i said. there is a differnce between abusing your child and spanking them.

Give me an example of when spanking is not abusive.

abusive:
1. expressing offensive reproach
2. characterized by physical or psychological maltreatment

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by kmay

Rubix. there is no right or wrong to this. there are several studies that show how wrong it is and several that show how much more effective it is.

Orly

Feel free to show me the uberconclusive evidence that supports the contrary view... because if you can, you'd be making pretty massive waves in the psychology arena.

Originally Posted by kmay

Abuse, which is what seems happened to you, is not spanking. iirc. stop being ignorant to the fact that it is a productive form of controlling the child. if used well, as in not everyday, and only when the child did something worthy of it. cursing, a bar of soap suffices, but i dont see how a time-out will make a child see how wrong it is too beat someone up. didnt teach my sister.

its like a sentence for jail. the crime commited leads to the sentence. the deed that was done by the child has a punishment for it as well.

these things you describe aren't great fixes. punishment like you're describing are only short-term solutions. Yes, punishing a kid by putting soap in his mouth will shut him up. Yes, spanking someone is a form of controlling. But it is a confusing thing to understand for a child. If you spank a child for throwing a tantrum, it doesn't understand why it shouldn't have been throwing a tantrum in the first place -- and you also teach that aggression is an OK solution to problems. Not only does spanking tend to lessen in its effectiveness the more you do it, but it also makes disciplining that much harder once a child "outgrows" spanking.

you can't say that "i'm ignorant of the fact that it's a productive way of controlling the child" -- are you serious? It is by no means a productive way to control the child. if anything, you are ignorant of the merits of positive reinforcement.

[AsphyxZero]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

OMG you guys.

Spanking does NOT ****ing work. Stop saying that. All it does is cause you to be submissive and fearful and it usually causes residual psychological damage and deeply-rooted abuse/trust issues. It's like trying to pull weeds by painfully chopping off the tops when there are usually safer ways to get at the roots that are ultimately more effective and less harmful.

Yeah have any of you actually been spanked or abused? NOT THE WAY TO GO.

[virus003]

Bix your overconfidence is getting the best of you, and you rely on statistics too much. You need to relax. You think statistics have all the answers in the world.

Yeah that proactive completely cleared up my face! It's statistically proven

nooooot

That was the easiest example I could think of

Just because you were spanked a lot when you were little, doesn't make you that kind of person, it's just a feeling of power you have I'd assume. My brother said he got spanked a loooot when he was little, and it seems he forgot about it, he goes to Fullerton State. Him and my parents are still having a great connection. You live and forget over time if you ask me

[DossarLX ODI]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Not only does spanking tend to lessen in its effectiveness the more you do it, but it also makes disciplining that much harder once a child "outgrows" spanking.

LOL THIS

How are you going to use physical violence on your child once he/she is able to actually fight back and resist? Maybe even beat the crap out of you? This is why my dad no longer attempts spanking on me, but he did when I was a little kid. So much for control and lessons at that point....

[ghost-]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

But it is a confusing thing to understand for a child. If you spank a child for throwing a tantrum, it doesn't understand why it shouldn't have been throwing a tantrum in the first place -- and you also teach that aggression is an OK solution to problems.

I must be the only one in the world who never found it confusing at all why I was being spanked for my bad behavior. I never took the aggression that was used on me and thought, "it's okay to beat the shit outta things". Hey, that's just me though, and you're going off of tests used all around the world that focus on everybody at once and not the actual percentages of the different kinds of people there are and every scenario possible.

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by ghost-

I guess I didn't say what I wanted to say correctly, that did sound really stupid.

If you're going to say stupid things then don't get your panties in a twist when I call you out for saying stupid things.

Originally Posted by ghost-

What I meant was that a person should probably experience both sides of the argument instead of just look at test data and absolutely trust it with all of your being. I was spanked (only a little) and I turned out very well. But say another kid was spanked just as much as I was and turned out completely f*cked up. It all depends on what type of person you are, and there are a great many people here arguing their cases. I have a friend who was never spanked and is still a little spoiled because of it. I also have a friend who was never spanked and is really outgoing on life, but doesn't have a whole lot of confidence and has some trust issues. It depends on what kind of person you are from the start. The tests you are following probably don't go this deep, or maybe they do and you just fail to acknowledge it? From what I've seen you've been strictly, "Spanking is almost always bad." and that's it.

Have you not been reading this thread? I've posted quite a few links and given plenty of basic, easy-to-understand arguments. Which arguments do you disagree with?

And yes, I agree that one should examine the data, which is precisely what I've done. You'd have to be batshit retarded to only look at half the data.

Also, cut it out with the strawman arguments and anecdotal outliers. Yes, most of us can pinpoint plenty of spoiled kids who never got spanked, but we can also point out spoiled kids who were spanked, unspoiled kids who never got spanked, and unspoiled kids who were spanked. you have to look at the distributions. you can't just blindly assume that "kids were that way from the start" when there is a wealth of data that can be used to predict behavior based on a variety of indicators, which is consistent with what we know about biology and brain chemistry.

[virus003]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Orly

Feel free to show me the uberconclusive evidence that supports the contrary view... because if you can, you'd be making pretty massive waves in the psychology arena.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....-good-for-kids

ahoy there mate

[Reincarnate]

Originally Posted by ghost-

you're going off of tests used all around the world that focus on everybody at once and not the actual percentages of the different kinds of people there are and every scenario possible.

Heaven forbid I use a large, relevant, random data sample to extract the most unbiased trend possible, GASP.

and what the hell are you talking about? everyone at once and not the... actual percentages of the different kinds of people there are and every scenario possible? what the hell does that mean? are you trying to discuss basic data segmentation/stratification? what scenarios are you talking about in particular?

[ghost-]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

If you're going to say stupid things then don't get your panties in a twist when I call you out for saying stupid things.

Like I said, I don't get angry over things when there's really no point at all for anger anyway. (it doesn't solve anything to be so angry, it actually clouds your judgment)

So there you go again acting like you're the supreme leader of the community again. Maybe the abuse in your past has caused you to turn out like this? Maybe it has. So be it. You control your own actions, you're a big boy. I think that even if a child is beaten/spanked/whatever when they're young, by the time they get old enough to really think about these things they will have matured enough to not let it bother them. Too bad not everybody turns out like this, and to them I say, "grow up". Don't let the past effect your present and what could be a great life. You're making it horrible by dwelling on what happened too much.

[ghost-]

Originally Posted by Reincarnate

Heaven forbid I use a large, relevant, random data sample to extract the most unbiased trend possible, GASP.

and what the hell are you talking about? everyone at once and not the... actual percentages of the different kinds of people there are and every scenario possible? what the hell does that mean? are you trying to discuss basic data segmentation/stratification? what scenarios are you talking about in particular?

man, I'm tired, my arguments don't have a very good stronghold atm. Not a wise decision on my part to dive into this without thinking about my life first. >__<

Just disregard it for now.

[awein999]

Originally Posted by virus003

http://www.thenewamerican.com/index....-good-for-kids

ahoy there mate

BAHAHAH fox news....anyone can write an article saying anything. Does that mean it's automatically inconclusively correct? Of course not. When the child's answer is "NO" you don't attack the child. Oh and police are definitely 100% helpful in society what a great comparison (sarcasm). Comparing police to adults and parents to children is laughable. The prisoners definitely turn out well after being physically restrained and thrown into a cell. This is garb.

[DossarLX ODI]

LOL at the paragraph about the military. Being in the military isn't about lessons, it's about being available to defend against attackers or helping aid other countries.

And awein raises yet another great point - Articles, newspapers, etc. are usually exaggerated to get better reviews, and aren't that reliable.

[ghost-]

@dossar

The military isn't about lessons? What? I mean, yeah it is quite obviously used for the defense of a country, but how can you say it has absolutely nothing to do with learning something about yourself or life as a whole? That was kind of a silly thing to say.