Konami sues over Rock Band

[Tps222]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

Your book about robots idea doesn't relate to this case at all.

It is about the methodology in which rhythm gaming is conducted. While it is broad, it is still legal.

and yes, I understand the fact that you're contesting it's legality, I am too.

[Tps222]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

Konami's patent is on music simulation games where you push buttons.

How the **** do you have a music game where you DON'T PUSH BUTTONS?

The only one I can think of is Elite Beat Agents and that's only doable because of the platform it's on.

Konami's patent is a bit more specific than that. It could be summarized to pushing buttons I suppose, but it also deals with the interaction between the input device and the game, and how the game corresponds to how you should be playing it, and the output that then comes out.

[Tokzic]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

Your book about robots idea doesn't relate to this case at all.

It is about the methodology in which rhythm gaming is conducted. While it is broad, it is still legal.

How the **** do you have a music game where you DON'T PUSH BUTTONS?

Putting a patent on a video game genre and then narrowing it down by saying it only applies to games where you push buttons is akin to putting a patent on headphones - but only ones that make noise.

[Afrobean]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

How do you people even remember how to breathe?

I'm not contesting the fact that the patents exist, but I am contesting the fact that the patents are allowed to exist. Almost everything that Squeek pointed out is patented is bull****. Thinking up an interesting new concept to gameplay (or maybe it's not new, but who cares, unclaimed territory is unclaimed territory) and then saying NOBODY ELSE IS ALLOWED TO DO THIS is completely and utterly ****ing dumb.

Hey, I just wrote a book about robots. I'M COPYRIGHTING THEM. NONE OF YOU ARE ALLOWED TO WRITE BOOKS ABOUT ROBOTS NOW. SUCK IT. What? How does **** like this get through? The patent system is supposed to stop people from blatantly copying other people's inventions and taking away from their rightful profit. But when there are loose concepts that people are BLARINGLY OBVIOUS as the progress of gaming pushes forward (I'm looking at you, arrow patent - this was when 3D was fresh), you'd have to be a completely ignorant meatbag to let things like this go through.

When I write software for a game, I shouldn't have to look to make sure I'm not stepping on any patent toes. Patenting enormous broad concepts that aren't even concrete is just an excuse to sue other people when they inevitably think of things you haven't thought of that barely fit into their patent, take their money, then steal the new ideas for their own. Just look at DDR X. Bull****, bull****, bull****.

So don't write any books about robots. I thought of it first, you're stealing my idea.

I guess the open source community that developed StepManiers forgot to file their patents on the mines idea so the multi-headed anonymous group could later sue and make millions.

[Tps222]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

I agree with you guys. It is ridiculous, but in the eyes of the law, I think it's going to hold.

Look at Microsoft. They more or less patented the "PC Genre", for a long time. They got in trouble and reduced it, but still. In my eyes, Konami is the Post Trust-busted Microsoft, and everyone else should look for alternative approaches to operating systems, (Mac, Linux etc). That is what I meant by alternative approach.

[Afrobean]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

I agree with you guys. It is ridiculous, but in the eyes of the law, I think it's going to hold.

I think you're forgetting one thing. This could go to court and the justice system could say "uh yeah that's messed up, you can't have such a broad patent that covers basically an entire genre".

[Squeek]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

What music rhythm games might not fall under the "push buttons with music" thing?

Elite Beat Agents

Singstar

Karaoke Revolution

EyeToy

Wii Music

Frequency / Amplitude

Rez

God, the list goes on.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_video_game

See this? Look at the section dividers, and look for "rhythm game". That's the only section Konami has a patent on.

[kcfp_Ice]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

Go away, please. Lord of the Rings gained success in recent years due to the film. Any video game which came before that is clearly unrelated and has nothing to do with anything but to prove how little you're paying attention. The discussion here is about how Konami is trying to squash Rock Band for not paying them to use their idea, as well as the idea that the general concept of having to pay for such an elemental idea is detrimental to the free market, as well as to the product in the consumer's hands.

If you paid attention maybe you'd understand my post.
I meant game wise moron.

[Shashakiro]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

Rhythm gaming is a sub-genre of music gaming, but it's still FAR too broad to be patentable IMO.

Also, you push buttons in Frequency/Amplitude, except they're just the buttons on the standard controller.

p.s. stop saying "you don't understand the issue" or "you don't understand my post", people. No one in this topic has displayed a lack of understanding about the issue or about anyone's posts, only a varying degree of resentment towards it and disagreement with said posts.

[iPatcH]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

KONAMI WILL SUE.

wow how has nobody said that yet

[dAnceguy117]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

KONAMI WILL SUE.

wow how has nobody said that yet

http://konamiwillsue.ytmnd.com/

looks like we need a new one

[flameshadow2102]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

this is crazy! konami suing over rock band? konami has never made a band game! so, why should konami give a s**t!!!!!

[Afrobean]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

konami has never made a band game!

Guitar Freaks and DrumMania.

Never made it to America though. Read below for a little information on a potential reason why.

Oh by the way, I was glancing at the Wikipedia article for Drumscape, since I never really knew what it was. I had always figured it was something sort of like DrumMania, but it's really just a edrum set with a timer on it. What the ****. Also, read this:

Drumscape was the first music game based on Devecka Enterprises' 1996 patents and it was released in 1997 prior to Konami's first Beat Mania game[citation needed]. Devecka Enterprises has claimed that its patents cover not only drumming games but all music games[citation needed] (including but not limited to Guitar Freaks, Guitar Hero, Rock Band, and Dance Dance Revolution), however because its concept is very basic and that prior non-patented MIDI drumsets have been used as training tools and as input, the patent's validity has been called into question. Outside of the United States, Devecka's patents have been successfully challenged due to these claims. Neither Devecka nor MTV, for example, have challenged Konami or other music game companies (such as RedOctane for its Guitar Hero series or Namco for its Taiko no Tatsujin drumming game).

Basically, this says some other ****** company thought it could own the entire genre and has been successfully fought off.

Devecka's claim relies on its holding of the drum simulation game patent in the United States.

How can this be a legitimate patent? Are there patents floating around for "driving simulation" or "airplane simulation" or "skateboarding simulation"? How can someone think taking something from the real world and making it a video game is a novel and new idea?


Later patents:

Method and apparatus for simulating a jam session and instructing a user in how to play the drums[6]

too bad you could use a edrum 30 years ago and simulate a jam session, ******

too bad using a video to instruct how to play a edrum set is not a novel idea, ******

I guess this is why Rock Band doesn't have a free play mode though. Pretty ****ing ****ty if ya ask me. How would THPS play if there was no free skate mode? "No, you cannot just skate around and have fun, either clear career objectives or stop playing this ****ty game!" What would GTA be like? "No, sorry, but you can't just drive around the city stealing cars, you have to do these missions and nothing else."

[MrRubix]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

Again, I don't know a whole lot about law, but I mean, what about when the first FPS was ever made? That's a fairly "novel" idea, and yet we don't see any one company patenting "First-person game where user holds weapon and attacks enemies" or something along those lines. When does the line between unique implementation and "genre" get drawn? Am I not allowed to own my own genre if I come up with it?

I mean, think about why patents exist in the first place. You come up with a novel idea, and you don't want others to profit off that idea because you want the rights to your own intellectual property. However, you will have a hard time patenting something that is clearly too broad.

If Konami patents the components that essentially make up a game like DDR, then seeing them battle Roxor during the whole ITG phase seems like it makes more sense. The games look exactly the same, except the music/stepcharts are different and the graphical interface is different, along with the scoring system. The fact that ITG is an arguably superior game is irrelevant -- it's still a "blatant ripoff" of games like DDR. If ITG happened to suck, we'd all be complaining about how ITG needed to die because it was leeching off DDR and was such an awful copycat trying to profit off the ideas of DDR. Instead, we see it as an improvement past games like DDR, and embrace it without really considering that it's still a copycat, even if it's done better. ITG even used DDR hardware... it doesn't surprise me at all that Roxor ate that battle.

Now, in the case of Rock Band, I think there are simply too many unique implementations to distinguish it from Konami's stuff (hardware and software included) -- other than that, it's simply pressing keys to music. If that were patented, I would have expected to see every other reasonably profitable non-Konami rhythm game get smashed, and yet I don't see this happening. I think Konami is just jumping on the fact that Rock Band is making mad profits off a game that is similar to their own guitar games, but I think since they have essentially done everything themselves in terms of design and implementation, they will not necessarily lose the battle against Konami.

Besides, even if Konami still tries to push after all those surface-level differences have been brought up, my guess is that Rock Band would try to have Konami's patent narrowed in scope.

In other words, I really don't see Konami winning this one. But who knows -- crazier things have happened.