Konami sues over Rock Band

[Squeek]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

Read my post.

Konami didn't just wait until Harmonix was successful to pull a patent troll on them. They waited to confirm that their patents were being infringed upon since it wasn't that long ago that Harmonix and Activision broke part, and Activision was the company with the rights to Konami's patents for Guitar Hero and Guitar Hero II.

In case you didn't notice, Activision has not been sued. This is because they've long accepted the fact that Konami has a patent on this genre and paid them some sum of money to use their idea. In case you didn't notice, Taiko Drum Master has also remained free from Konami's patent lawyers. Probably because they already knew Konami had the rights to the genre and paid them some sum of money to use their idea.

This is the law. Shut up and deal with it.

[macgravel]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

Shut up and deal with it.

You're such a great sport.

[jewpinthethird]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

I like how Konami is suddenly "evil."

Last week y'all would be sucking Konami's knob begging for a facial.

[Cats_Go_Meow]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

and to think, i liked konami alot, it seems as if they are after a quick buk now

In today's society, who isn't?

[ddr_f4n]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

I like how Konami is suddenly "evil."

Last week y'all would be sucking Konami's knob begging for a facial.

Would we after seeing this?

http://www.bemanistyle.com/index.php/news/new-features-853#comments

[sumzup]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

Sure, Konami has the legal right to sue, but they would've profited much more by being innovative. Instead of trying to scrape some dough off of a different successful franchise, they could've built their own.

[Shashakiro]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

Harmonix can hopefully argue that the patents are invalid...that seems to be the most legal way out that wouldn't wind up with them giving Konami a fat paycheck in some form. I certainly think that it's quite reasonable to call Konami's patents all music games ever pretty damn invalid and far too general.

I'm not very familiar with patent laws, but I'm pretty sure that it'll also be relevant somehow that GuitarFreaks/Drummania were never released in the U.S. as far as how valid the patents are...I seem to recall there being something about patents getting possibly invalidated if they aren't acted on or something like that (although I don't actually know this).

[Squeek]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

The patent is not for a guitar or a drum. It's for everything.

DDR is part of this patent because you're using something to hit notes in time with the beat of music.

Edit: Though it appears they also have a patent for their guitar and drum games too. And a game that uses all of these instruments together.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,390,923 - "Music playing game apparatus". An instrument you use to interface with a game.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,425,822 "Selectable controller inputs". Being able to play more than one instrument at a time.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-P...S=PN/6,645,067 "Readable storage medium". Taking the inputs from the instruments and showing them on-screen. I think.

All of this is on Wired, including the lawsuit itself.

http://blog.wired.com/games/2008/07/konami-sues-har.html

Hilariously enough, these three patents and the one I posted earlier are listed on the Guitar Hero website as a reference for their idea. So, like I said, Activision knows what they're doing.

[Skeleton-GotW]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

The cat in the hat knows all. Very helpful unbiased info, Squeek. Ty.

Edit: I guess other companies have to just accept the fact that Konami is going to sue them if they don't get patent permission. It's ridiculous IMO, but apparently neccessary.

[hoochan]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

Would you guys be happy if a kid took your science fair project, made it better by a little bit, and then won the science fair with it? No, I don't think so, so stop putting your foot in your mouths and actually comprehend the situation.

PS-Konami is NOT a monopoly because Activision is still in the market.

PPS-Monopolies are illegal in America so that's probably why Activision has rights.

[Squeek]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

That's pretty much the most intelligent post I've seen in this thread.

I think along the same lines. Harmonix leaves Activision, gets drunk at a party, releases Rock Band, and forgets about all the legalities Activision took care of before they went rogue.

A quick settlement will be all they need to take care of this. Too bad MTV already said they're going to contest it.

[Afrobean]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

But in a world of patents and intellectual property, if it not unfair of MTV to have not given royalties to Konami from the start, as they hold the patents on these types of things? It would have saved them bad press and likely money too... this will be a lengthy and costly legal battle. Yes, it sucks that Konami is always the bad guy... and in a lot of ways they are... but in the legal sense, they have the right to do it.

Question: how is it that the Rock Band controller could be deemed too similar to the Guitar Freaks controller? It is fashioned after a specific Fender model, so it can't be that. It has different configuration on buttons, so it can't be that.

The only common factor here is the fact that they are both simulations of guitaring. Does this mean I'm not allowed to air guitar any more? Does this mean I cannot hold a real guitar and act like I'm playing it? Oh, right, it's because it's a game, right? What if I make a game out of playing with a toy like this? Am I infringing on Konami's precious patent if I come up with a way to play with a toy like that?

Wait, it's about hardware, right? Why is Harmonix getting sued then? Harmonix created the software, not the hardware. And what if I pick up my computer's keyboard and hold it like a guitar to play a guitar based game? What if I write the words "this is a guitar" on my PS2 Dual Shock and play GH with it, while holding it like a guitar and actively simulating guitar playing?

It'd be one thing if RB's guitar were as like Konami's as it is like GH's. But it's not. The only thing they have between them is the fact that they're toy guitars that are used to play a video game.

I'm not saying there isn't grounds for this (apparently there is), I'm saying it's a ****ty system. This is a ****ing controller for pete's sake. How would the world be if someone had to pay some rich piece of **** every time they made something which could fit the description "input device for electronic interface"? Seriously, if they can allow a patent like this to be legitimized... it's just ****ing ridiculous. It is a controller for a video game. Does this mean that a loose definition of "controller" can be patented? Does some ****** own a patent on "controller" and anyone who has created a controller, from Atari to NES to PSX to ... 360, Wii and PS3, would have to give money to some ****** who has never released a controller in the life of their company? It's bull****, pure and simple. IT IS A ****ING TOY GUITAR HOW CAN THEY PATENT THAT ****.

Oh hey guys I just drew a guitar on a piece of paper, cut it out, and now I'm simulating play with it on it, by playing along to a video game. OH NO I'M STEALING KONAMI'S BRILLIANT AND TOTALLY ****ING ORIGINAL IDEA.

Ok, reading through the thread as I rant my head off and I come across Squeek's post with patent information:

Sound generation control and instruction operation evaluation is performed by sound group selection and a sound generation instruction, with a mimic guitar having selection buttons for selecting one of a plurality of sound groups bearing a series of sounds, and a picking blade for instructing the generation of a sound. The rhythm-matching game can be enjoyed relatively easily in a manner closer to a realistic state of playing an instrument.

Translation for the unable to understand (which I am seriously surprised anyone would fall under this category):

Sound is created depending on which one button is pressed and pressing down on a blade (that is, the strum bar). The game is relatively easy to pick up and is relatively similar to actual guitar playing.

Notice: press ONE button.
Notice: generates sound based on which button is pressed, NOT plays back live recorded music.
Notice: is easy, yet relatively like playing a real instrument (har har)

Rock Band makes use of multiple buttons at once, called chords. Rock Band plays back recorded music based on the notes hit, and the buttons pressed have ABSOLUTELY no bearing on what sound comes out. Rock Band is not anything like playing a real guitar, aside from the fact that the controller is held in a similar manner and that the left hand presses things down, while the right plucks or strums (protip: try strumming or plucking a guitar in the way you would the strum bar on your guitar controller...).

the concept of having a music game wherein you match symbols to buttons on a controller in time with the music.

This means Konami owns the IP of every single rhythm game ever created which involves pressing a button. Tell me that's not ****ty. What if Nintendo had looked at what they had created with LoZ and had said "hey let's patent the idea of adventure game where you kill monsters by pressing buttons!"

"Who cares if people have already invented things which can relate to it, THIS IS A TOTALLY ORIGINAL CONCEPT"

Honestly, from the looks of things, the only "leg" they have to stand on is a claim of owning a patent on the entire rhythm genre.

Konami has a patent on this genre

brb applying for a patent in "the genre of FPS gaming" and "the genre of puzzle gaming" and "the genre of RPG gaming". It's a shame Konami already snapped up "the genre of rhythm gaming".

Taiko Drum Master has also remained free from Konami's patent lawyers. Probably because they already knew Konami had the rights to the genre and paid them some sum of money to use their idea.

HOW CAN YOU HAVE RIGHTS TO AN ENTIRE ****ING GENRE. How would it be if only one person could create punk music. If only one person could create hip hop music. If only one person could create classical music. "oops sorry beethoven you can't make ur music becus mozart patented that **** lol better go pay the owners of his estates if you like making music on pianos"

Would you guys be happy if a kid took your science fair project, made it better by a little bit, and then won the science fair with it? No, I don't think so, so stop putting your foot in your mouths and actually comprehend the situation.

Totally different situation. You clearly don't understand the situation at all.

Konami's science fair idea? A totally original one, right? Their idea is "playing music". You can make a science fair project about anything but "playing music". You can make a project about jumping on platforms, about killing people, about sports, about fighting monsters. But no projects about playing music.

If you want to make a science fair project which involves making music, you have to give Konami moneys.

PS-Konami is NOT a monopoly because Activision is still in the market.

Trying to destroy the most innovative and highly successful competitor is not exactly good and fair free market mentality.

PPS-Monopolies are illegal in America so that's probably why Activision has rights.

No, Activision has rights because they gave in and apparently admitted that Konami owns the entire ****ing genre.

MTV already said they're going to contest it.

Good. What kind of ****ing world would it be if Nintendo had sued Sega for stealing it's idea when they released Sonic the Hedgehog? You can't own a ****ing genre.

ps I found this:

http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62148

By searching for "Andamiro sued". Apparently Konami ****ing sued Andamiro over PIU. What a load of ****.

[Magewout]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

Apparently, they CAN own a genre. Damn, why are you getting upset about this? Konami will win, Harmonix will pay a fine, credit Konami for their games and afterwards they'll both happily continue to create more rhythm games. Seriously, you're shouting at us for something Konami is doing? I highly doubt they'll ever read this thread.

[ddr_f4n]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

The problem isn't the fine. Konami wants Harmonix to ALSO stop producing and stop using the "inventions" that Harmonix is using. This will affect Rock Band 2 and possibly cancel the whole game itself, and I'm very sure that many fans won't be happy over this.

[hoochan]

Re: Konami sues over Rock Band

stuff

Obviously you don't even understand what they are being sued over. Konami patented the entire "click a button to match a coordinated key coming on the screen" idea. Basically, they patented the entire idea of a rhythm game. Back when this happened, it WAS a totally original idea (or there might have been 1 previous game from a different company but they never moved forward with the idea and never patented it). Konami saw something in this and jumped on and patented it. A GENIUS MOVE on their part. The patent companies never thought that this genre would get so big. Regardless, Konami has the patents and you can't change that now. Activision knew about this and bought rights from them. They looked over the entire situation at hand and now that aren't suffering for a stupid mistake. Harmonix didn't and now they are paying for it. What don't you understand?

PS-I guarantee you that if monopolies were legal, no one but Konami would be making these games. Why the hell would they leave room for competition when its unneeded and they can control the entire market?