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Re: haha america
People are ignorant of the data and I simply don't care to get into those discussions again (people will believe what they want and insist admissions are conducted one way when they're not).
Race matters less than you think it does when it comes to admissions at top unis. The bias is impossible to eliminate entirely, granted, but if you're Asian and think you got shafted for being Asian, you're very likely wrong. People of all races get shafted all across the board. There are simply not enough spots for all the qualified applicants.
"So what, that just means Asians and whites get shafted even more than Hispanics/blacks/etc" -- also not true. When you normalize it all out, it's a problem of correlation and causation.
Let's say I am an admissions officer. I only hire people who play FFR. However, you notice a trend that a shitload of Stepmania players are getting accepted. So maybe you think you need to play Stepmania to increase your chances. So you practice a lot and get good at Stepmania, only to get rejected anyway. You then choose to blame it on some unrelated factor, when you simply chose to not pay attention to the fact that FFR was the criteria to begin with.
Same thing in admissions. You didn't get rejected for being Asian, and you didn't get accepted because you were black. You got in because you had great stats and offered something that made you stand out against the rest.
"But I had a 9001 SAT and 4.99010101 GPA!"
Diminishing returns. A student who has a 2250 SAT and maybe a 3.5 GPA, by most metrics, has already proven that they're capable of handling the courseload at the university. Cranking things up from there has little impact, so you can't assume the admissions rate goes up in a similarly linear fashion. If you've got great scores but offer a shitty essay and lukewarm recs and a couple bullshitted EC's, then yeah, you'll probably get passed over.Last edited by Reincarnate; 12-4-2013, 05:28 PM.Comment
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Re: haha america
If you're going to be wrong about something please try not to be condescending about it. The term "pure math" has been around for a while and will not change because Izzy got a little confused.
Are you implying that mathematics in itself is not useful? I don't blame you, but I'd like to offer some evidence to the contrary. Read this for starters; it offers a good explanation of pure math and distinctions between it and applied math. The thing is, there is still so much math that we don't know. The prime numbers are still mysterious even though they're just integers! Look at some of the important unanswered problems in mathematics here and you'll be able to see that mathematics isn't self-contained; even the most abstract concepts arise in other areas. Really delving into these ideas, like a rigorous buildup of calculus (analysis) or a rigorous exploration of algebra (where concepts are readily applied to computer science) are extremely useful to ensure that we actually know the things we know. It's not just about having a circle-jerk over the abstraction of it all... okay well maybe sometimes it is... but more importantly being a good mathematician means that you have a vast array of ways to tackle problems with unparalleled precision. Much of the time, the way you arrive at your solution is more important than what that solution is. And that's really where the beauty of mathematics reveals itself. A lot of proofs can be done multiple ways, but one that is done by exhaustion might also be more elegantly proved by means of some simple insightful observation, and this observation may lead to proofs of a whole boatload of unanswered questions.
But responding to what you were probably referring to, it is true that mathematicians face a very difficult job market. If you want to go into academia from the start, you'll probably have to do post-grad at one or two places, then be an assistant professor and work your nuts off for a few years, and then MAYBE you'll get tenure, but it's an extremely hard path that requires some luck. If you're smart, you can do pure math but advertise yourself so that people will want to hire you in other areas besides academia.
lol
Originally posted by Wayward VagabondComment
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Re: haha america
trust me on this one when i say certain races are shafted (mainly white/asian)
yes african american / hispanic families will tend to have economical disadvantages but taking that into account a lot of the difference in scores tend to deal with cultureComment
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Re: haha america
how often do you see asian parents twerking and how often do you see african american parents twerking
now going off of that, unis tend to try to even out the race curve by accepting more underqualified applicants of X race
i agree that there are a plethora of overqualified applicants (more than the number accepted per year), and that's where race comes in
applicant B is black, applicant A is asian, equally impressive scores/EC
but we already have filled 20% of our student body with asians, but we only have 5% black students, so we'll take the black student
that's what i mean by shaftedComment
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Re: haha america
!Congratulations You Were Born A White Male Wow!
Man Life Is So Hard As A White MaleComment
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Re: haha america
The point is that the scores don't increase admissions chances linearly. Asians and whites, at the top levels, are technically well beyond where they need to be. The student with a 2380 is not league ahead of the student with a 2250. Diminishing returns kick in earlier than you may think.Comment
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Re: haha america
As someone who went to a top school (and got accepted into several others), I find this offensive. Many of my peers (who were of color) were more than qualified to be there. "Underqualified" applicants are typically not accepted.
If you're only going from things like SAT scores, which heavily correlate to parental income, which in turn is something you'll find more of among whites and asians, then sure, you'll see that trend -- but an applicant's qualifications extend far beyond things like scores.
This isn't how it works.applicant B is black, applicant A is asian, equally impressive scores/EC
but we already have filled 20% of our student body with asians, but we only have 5% black students, so we'll take the black studentLast edited by Reincarnate; 12-4-2013, 06:10 PM.Comment
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Re: haha america
It's easier to get into a top university if you are an ethnic minority. Let's ignore the legacies and athletes for a second and focus on the "smart kids". To be a smart kid, let's say you have to score within the top x% of SAT scores within your designated race. Whites and Asians have to compete against much more competitive SAT scores than do ethnic minorities.
Originally posted by Wayward VagabondComment
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Re: haha america
I long for the day when people understand the difference between correlation and causation.Comment
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Re: haha america
im majoring in gender studies at a top 20 prestigious academy with academic honors and am on roll to be number 1 choice for valedictorian so you could probably say that some people know what to doComment
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