How would (do) you raise your children?

[Reincarnate]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

wtf is wrong with you people

that has got to be the most absurd logic I've read in a while

[star reaper]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

wtf is wrong with you people

that has got to be the most absurd logic I've read in a while

What are you talking about? Also, why is it absurd?

[Reincarnate]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

If they are spanked the parent shouldn't be angry when spanking the child. That way the child will see the punishment pertaining to something they did, and not from you being unfair.

This is fallacious logic. Simply spanking your child "without anger" doesn't change the core problem of spanking: The child is still going to associate you with pain and feel it is unfair, and will still fear it. You're just blindly asserting that "not being angry" suddenly solves the problem. It doesn't.

Second to help them understand, I think they should be explained as to why your doing what you are. Staying calm, and letting the child know that they deserve the spanking is, in my own opinion, one of the best ways to discipline a child.

The point though is that you don't have to resort to physical pain to teach a lesson or change behavior. The problem is that it takes a bit more learning/discipline/attention/effort than many parents are willing to put in. All too often we see the "Well my parents did it and I turned out OK and therefore I will do it to mine" excuse without acknowledging the bleeding obvious confirmation bias underneath it.

If they don't have that moral discipline, then they will have a harder time living with rules, and just plain surviving out in the working world.

Again, you don't need pain to teach moral discipline, nor do you need it to teach the value of rules and survival.

Positive reinforcement can do anything positive that spanking can (and more) AND without the downside risks of fear/relationship strain/other behavioral problems/abuse/lapsed judgment/etc. Basic Psych 101, here.

[Cavernio]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

Follows the emotional volatility thing I was talking about star. I get it although I wouldn't do it star. I will only spank and yell at my kids in anger because I've lost it. :-p

There's more than just getting a kid to behave in parenting, you also want to raise a mature, self-reliant, happy adult. Something like not following thru on punishments and rewards probably isn't going to matter when talking about creating a happy, functioning adult.

I honestly don't know why spanking a child is such a bad thing anyways. Physical harm that's short-lived is, well, short-lived. But something like letting your child know you're disappointed with them can easily make a child feel like their parents love is very conditional. That's pretty horrible. Getting angry with a kid is similar to saying you're disappointed with them. That's why spanking without anger is quite different.

And to take this way too far, if the world could be mediated by positive reinforcement, we wouldn't have evolved pain.
It's also going to take a HUGE effort from any parent to only use positive reinforcement in such a masterful and artful way so as to avoid punishing or negatively reinforcing them. In other words, not possible.

[00Razor00]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

rubix up in here owning n**gas.

[Reincarnate]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

Follows the emotional volatility thing I was talking about star. I get it although I wouldn't do it star. I will only spank and yell at my kids in anger because I've lost it. :-p

There's more than just getting a kid to behave in parenting, you also want to raise a mature, self-reliant, happy adult. Something like not following thru on punishments and rewards probably isn't going to matter when talking about creating a happy, functioning adult.

Happy, functioning adults tend to come from happy, functioning children. Happy, functioning children are more likely when you have rules and guidelines that aren't laced with inconsistent batshit.

[star reaper]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

This is fallacious logic. Simply spanking your child "without anger" doesn't change the core problem of spanking: The child is still going to associate you with pain and feel it is unfair, and will still fear it. You're just blindly asserting that "not being angry" suddenly solves the problem. It doesn't.

"That's why i said to explain why your doing what you are doing. The child should understand that they are being punished for what they did. That way they associate the action as wrong, and the pain as a reason to not want to try to do it again. The whole purpose is to make the child understand that there are consequences, and if the consequence is a spanking, they will most likely not do it again. Though i must say, the action of spanking should only be used when the child does not listen to anything you say."

The point though is that you don't have to resort to physical pain to teach a lesson or change behavior. The problem is that it takes a bit more learning/discipline/attention/effort than many parents are willing to put in. All too often we see the "Well my parents did it and I turned out OK and therefore I will do it to mine" excuse without acknowledging the bleeding obvious confirmation bias underneath it.

"I agree that many things can be done without physical reprimand. But, there are things that cause for spankings, and should be done in the right way ( with the child knowing what they did is wrong, and understanding you are not doing this because you are angry at them) The instances I am talking about is when i child is throwing a fit, and will not listen to anyone. Sorry about not explaining this in my other comment to well, and if you still disagree, well it can't be helped I guess."

Again, you don't need pain to teach moral discipline, nor do you need it to teach the value of rules and survival.

"I agree, but there are some instances where the child will only learn that way."

Positive reinforcement can do anything positive that spanking can (and more) AND without the downside risks of fear/relationship strain/other behavioral problems/abuse/lapsed judgment/etc. Basic Psych 101, here.

"I believe positive reinforcement can do allot of things, but the two ideas that are being debated are used in two different environments. One where the child actually does listen, and is not too spoiled, and other is when the child is spoiled beyond belief."

[star reaper]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

Sorry if i wasn't able to exactly put what you said into quotes. I am not exactly sure how to.

Edit: Never mind, I just figured out how to.

[8 Hour Whore]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

I would teach them to Sex in style. Then upgrade them to 16 hours

[Nullifidian]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

In my opinion, doing any kind of physical or psychological harm is something you should avoid at all times, no matter how tempting it might be. Physical/ psychological harm (can) create(s) disfunctional children that (subconsciously or not) think it's ok to cause harm later on in their adult life. How is that a proper functioning adult for you?
Physical/psychological harm only instills fear, depression, pain and hatred towards the one causing the harm. I doubt anyone wants to be hated by their own child.

My mother/father always talked to me in an adult and clear way to make me understand why I shouldn't do a certain thing. This worked perfect cause I didn't feel like I was being belittled, and punishment/rewarding was done in a consistent manner. Something I want to aim for as well.
The key is to keep your cool and stay patient. Eventually the child will be tired of rebelling, and then you can reason with the kid. Have them voice their opinion in a reasonable way and explain them why you think otherwise.

What I want to do different than my parents though, is to have my kid(s) be interested in the world around them. Anything that fascinates them, I would encourage to have them know more about it, let them know what they can achieve with it and do something with it too if the child is willing to go further with it. (I wouldn't force my kids, just make them think about it and let them decide)
I wish my parents would've encouraged me to draw more and enrolled me into classes at a younger age, because at one point I stopped drawing for a long period (a good 6 or 7 years I think) cause of lack of goals. I picked up on it again myself later on since it is something I really liked doing, but I feel I could've gotten more out of my youth if my parents helped me more with it. I don't feel any resentment for them whatsoever though. In fact they gave me the freedom to experiment, but I don't recall any further support in something I like other than in a nutshell saying "go for it". Just something I would do differently.

[Reincarnate]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

"That's why i said to explain why your doing what you are doing. The child should understand that they are being punished for what they did. That way they associate the action as wrong, and the pain as a reason to not want to try to do it again. The whole purpose is to make the child understand that there are consequences, and if the consequence is a spanking, they will most likely not do it again. Though i must say, the action of spanking should only be used when the child does not listen to anything you say."

Explaining yourself and then spanking them doesn't actually solve the problem. Again, you're just blindly assuming that it does. Lots of parents spank their kids without flying into fits of rage -- it doesn't really make much difference. The kid is still going to feel like the punishment is unfair. Simply "explaining" it to them is not enough.

It's like what Neil deGrasse Tyson says about educating -- it's not just about "putting the information out there." It also involves a sensitivity to their state of mind that helps create impact.

You can use positive reinforcement to teach people not to do something again. It doesn't involve pain and it's much more effective.

Just take ten minutes and Google it a bit.

"I agree that many things can be done without physical reprimand. But, there are things that cause for spankings, and should be done in the right way ( with the child knowing what they did is wrong, and understanding you are not doing this because you are angry at them) The instances I am talking about is when i child is throwing a fit, and will not listen to anyone. Sorry about not explaining this in my other comment to well, and if you still disagree, well it can't be helped I guess."

Okay but my advice still applies here even when a kid is throwing a fit (which would be less likely to occur if you weren't the spanking type in the first place anyway).

"I agree, but there are some instances where the child will only learn that way."

Mighty tall claim, there. Care to provide examples?

"I believe positive reinforcement can do allot of things, but the two ideas that are being debated are used in two different environments. One where the child actually does listen, and is not too spoiled, and other is when the child is spoiled beyond belief."

It's only a debate insofar as "creationism vs. science" is a debate. It's not really a debate. There's a clear side that's got the right idea, and everyone else who is choosing ignorance.

[Coolboyrulez0]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

It's only a debate insofar as "creationism vs. science" is a debate. It's not really a debate. There's a clear side that's got the right idea, and everyone else who is choosing ignorance.

That reminds me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBAay9nPtOU

"I'll take brute force and bad attitude over smarts and education any day…because ignorance is bliss!"

[Reincarnate]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

Can't see it as an embed, direct link?

[DossarLX ODI]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?

wtf is wrong with you people

that has got to be the most absurd logic I've read in a while

The amount of likes on this video shows that a lot of people actually have that stance instead of positive reinforcement. You most likely already knew this, it certainly isn't a surprise

From personal experience, it's nice when you can approach your parents feeling safe and having them explain things to you. Not so nice is if your parents start using ageist pish posh and abuse you instead of being reasonable, not rectifying the situation in any way.

[Reincarnate]

Re: How would (do) you raise your children?