TWG XXIII Postgame

[Tasselfoot]

ok... 1st: EB GETTING SAVED DID not GET YOU AN EXTRA DAY. We were toying with the idea from night 2 to attack eb, just so that nobody died with zero consequences.

We realized on night 1 that we would be fucked beyond all belief if the day 3 autopsy (anyone realize this is also a real word, and as such has a funny 2nd meaning?) came back 2 or 4. It HAD to come back 3 for ANY chance to win. the lone green was an unbelievably powerful tool when combined with knowing all of the mason pairs. WAY too powerful. The only shot we had of winning was wolfing one of our own AND not getting lynched on day 1 or 2. When we found out kilga and dance were pairs, we realized we were hella fucked, as that just cost us 2 surefire human lynches when we needed 3 to win.

From that point, it was insane scrapping which ALMOST resulted in afro and hans being lynched. Talisman, you say the TPS coming out saved Afro/Hans... I'd like to give you that benefit of the doubt, but the obvious evidence is that mead's fuck up directly led to EVERYONE (aka, not just you who weren't even on afro at the time) switching off him and thereby costing us the game.

Blah was killed because potentially he was the guardian. We were guardian hunting from the start. Qreepy was killed for the same reason, and also so that there would be 3 widows instead of 2 (2 if we attacked eb, which was another consideration, or killing me to make kilga/dance wolves). As I even mentioned in the chat, mason pairs were the key. And it just sucks that I even managed to get everyone off of myself and nick and onto Afro and Hans, only to get it fucked with ONE vote from an Insta.

Night 4 was the turning point after TPS was lynched. I wanted to kill myself, but that would leave 3 human lynches again, instead of being down to 2. But, that would be ok. Basically, we knew 4 roles were left unknown: Guardian, 3rd widow, and 3rd mason pair. And the choices were LD, Fish, Talisman, nForcer. We knew Talisman was in the mason pair, and thought LD was the widow. Left nForcer and Fish as the guardian. Looking back, we had 0% shot of getting the 3rd pair killed, as it was Fish/Talisman. I wanted to kill Nick, to again look like guardian hunting, which would pretty much force eb into thinking I was human, making him kill afro/hans and then guido/nforcer for a day 7 or 8 win. That is what I wanted to do. Nick was extremely confident that Fish was the guardian, so I relented, went for the riskier but higher rewarding play, and it didn't pay off.

And yes, Talisman understood exactly my line of questioning to him in regards to nForcer and responded well. eb, my comments with you would have been fairly similar even if I was human.

Well, its late, I've been traveling since 1pm PST and its now 2am EST... I'm going to bed. This game was so stacked against us it wasn't even funny... oh well, I could taste the win for a few hours when Afro was on the block. *sigh*. I really am a shitty wolf, and I'd appreciate it if the hosts would STOP making me a wolf (3/4 games now). Any game where wolfing a wolf is the only option, and where wolfing a SECOND wolf is the best option... NOT a balanced game. I also agree about the inactivity.

eb's best idea was definately asking for logs between mason pairs. That REALLY caught me offguard and some very fast fancy editing had to be done... after that though, we wised up and talked wolfy only on secondary AIM names, and kept our public AIM names solely for human conversations.

PS - Guido... I'm ashamed dude. Seriously.

[blahblah18]

ok several things to comment on

First of all, EB, try not to be retarded when you play this game from now on.. just as a personal help.
AKA, getting mad at people for switching votes at teh last second to save the gaurdian. WTF would you do otherwise, say "oh noes, you chose the guardian choose someone else" .. well that would be jsut retarded, and you FACILITATED that use by saying, "run all lynch choices by me and if its the guardian i'll say not to vote him" That pretty much just gives him away so that's real stupid... try thinking a bit more on the repercussions of your actions from another person's perspective

Now on to more personal things... reasons I was wolfed, as I have gleamed. I was tass's second choice, behind EB.. Guido wanted me. The way I acted to tass was that I was the guardian. I tried very strongly to come off that way, because at the time I didn't know where Tass stood. I wanted him to divulge info to me, and he actualyl did it in my mind by being way too willing to just blindly let me chosoe someone to kill. I went partner fishing with 3 different names, and came up with knowing 3 groups

I was told kilga's group, afro's group and my group.
After Afro's blowup to save hans, I tried to instantly get everyone to switch to tass, but the thread locked before I had the chance to do so. I was fairly suspicious of afro at that point, but then a quick talk with him and his reasonings let me know he was human (even thoguh I must say his reasons for why he did what he did were incredibly foolish, but so be it) I was fairly confident that kilga was human, so that cleared him and his partner, I figured talisman and fish to be human, and thoguht that Tass was a wolf, and his "partner" was mattc. I was close enough for the fact, so it didn't matter too much. It was the #1 most logical reason for him being wolfed, and when I told tass, he said he felt a more logical reason would be to frame that exact situation. And I didn't really put that on anyone, since they wouldn't have thought of the gains of setting it up completely. All this pretty much narrowed down who the wolves could be, and I felt very good going into day 2, until *poof* killed.

Oh well, I'm glad we won, and I have personal pride that I figured a lot of things out.

[Tasselfoot]

congrats to LD, Kilga, and Blah on all getting their 12th win... congrats to Afro on his 6th survival. I'll post up an updated stats thread tomorrow. Been a few months since twg18 and the last time I did.

[talisman]

eb's best idea was definately asking for logs between mason pairs. That REALLY caught me offguard and some very fast fancy editing had to be done... after that though, we wised up and talked wolfy only on secondary AIM names, and kept our public AIM names solely for human conversations.

my idea, actually. It occurred to me night two when I sent all my convos to eb (I always send my convos to the alliance leader) and I was like "hey, from my convos with fish it's pretty obvious we're human. hmmm." And then I told eb about it in that pm and then brought it up to him again during day two. He was initially skeptical because he didn't see how it could catch wolves until I explained that it would be better not for catching wolves but for proving humans. Then he was convinced and started making the rounds.

edit: oh and eb getting saved DID get us an extra day in theory. not in practice since a wolf was already dead, but if there were still three wolves left, then we wouldn't have had day six, and day six and every single day after that would have been KiB.

Also, I'll agree that the vash convo did get people to switch off and that was a bit of an unlucky break. But pretty much all the reasons you guys lost was bad luck. I don't think it was as stacked as you made it out to be.

[evilbutterfly]

Guido: No, I didn't get that convo. Hans didn't send me anything, did you? *shrug*

And uh, blah, how about you don't be retarded and swing votes at the end of the day? That's pretty a terrible idea, I think. Maybe it's just because I remember killing Chardish that one time and he was human. *shrug*

And yeah, convos helped. I pretty much knew talisman and fish were human the whole time, but still, the fact that people wolves themselves nowadays and that talisman/fish are smart enough to talk human for a long time and maybe realize that I wouldn't read through a lot of the convos (I actually read most of them, just to make sure of this), I didn't trust them 100% until fish got wolfed. But yeah, the only thing that kept the convo thing from being really solid was that I don't save convos, and I don't know what I would talk to my partner a whole lot were I not partnered with, oh I dunno, Afro.

But it's a good thing I don't log, since that convo thing now can't be used against me ever. ^_______^

And Guido, the inactivity on the forums is the bad part. Usually there is plenty of inactivity in a game and it's mostly behind the scenes, but for the people who AREN'T behind the scenes (aka: greens in an alliance-heavy game), that really sucks. I don't know how many times I've been in a situation where everybody else is talking and sharing info and figuring things out and I'm just sitting there on the sidelines wandering what the hell is going on. I hate that. Like I said, if I weren't the center of things and getting and sharing lots of info, I would have hated this game because it would have been dreadfully boring.

[nickadeemus]

eb, Hans posted it in the forum as his 'defense.' If you caught it, it would have pretty much been the end to guido right there.

[nforcer06164]

Hey, LD, I knew you were a guardian after this post:

http://www.flashflashrevolution.com/...=528080#528080

It was PAINFULLY obvious in that you said you still had a partner when it was higly unlikely that any except Afro's remained, and you referred to eb so heavily. eb can confirm that I knew this if he has a log of our conversation, because I told him I thought LD was the guardian. I hinted at this to Afro too, as a safety net, because why would I tell him who I thought the guardian was if I was a wolf? Well, the wolves did pick up on what LD said. And Afro, you got it backwards. gg.

Speaking of which, you had some really weird strategies, Afro. I showed the log to eb. I'll put it up another time when I can at home. You're odd logic made me rethink the possibility of you being a wolf. I felt really bad after one of those conversations, because I had saved you and Hans from lynching.

So, maybe I was wrong about TPS... but I WAS right about Tass and Guido (I don't recall if I mentioned Guido in the thread, but I did in AIM convos). I hate to think what would've happened if TPS hadn't acted stupid, or if I wouldn't have called him on it... you may not have been a wolf, TPS, but you did help us win =D

Oh, and who gets MVP, mead? Or did we abolish that like the pips?

[Tasselfoot]

MVP is host's call.

[mead1]

I don't think I'm qualified to give an MVP. I haven't seen or heard even an fourth of what went on this game.

[Tasselfoot]

From our side of things, eb is the clear MVP... if eb feels differently, he'd know best. Even though he really didn't do anything more than just what his role forced him to do, without eb, y'all don't win. Plain and simple.

[FishFishRevolution]

I'd vote for either eb or talis to get the MVP this game. talis had a lot of good ideas the whole time, figured out a lot about the wolves an partners, and helped hans and afro clear themselves.

[Afrobean]

It was PAINFULLY obvious in that you said you still had a partner when it was higly unlikely that any except Afro's remained, and you referred to eb so heavily. eb can confirm that I knew this if he has a log of our conversation, because I told him I thought LD was the guardian. I hinted at this to Afro too, as a safety net, because why would I tell him who I thought the guardian was if I was a wolf? Well, the wolves did pick up on what LD said. And Afro, you got it backwards. gg.

Actually, I understood it mostly, but I thought it was a plan constructed by eb or something and you had gotten in on it. That's what I didn't understand. It makes sense now, but then it didn't.

Also: I was accusing you of being a wolf because I was still wary of you. I knew that if you weren't with LD, then LD was the guardian, and if LD wasn't with you and LD died, there was a pretty good chance it was you, hence my vote on you early last day. I guess everyone had figured LD out though (despite my PM... the only people that should have known were LD, eb, the third pair, and me once I figured it out).

Speaking of which, you had some really weird strategies, Afro. I showed the log to eb. I'll put it up another time when I can at home. You're odd logic made me rethink the possibility of you being a wolf. I felt really bad after one of those conversations, because I had saved you and Hans from lynching.

What was odd about any logic? It might have seemed odd to you knowing that you were most definitely in the third pair and LD wasn't, but from my side, it wasn't too farfetch'd. By the way, never do that again. If I hadn't figured out LD was the guardian at that point (I had already guessed it based on his "GG humans/masons" post, I just was no where near sure) I would have figured it out from you. Giving away who the guardian is to someone who may be a wolf is a bad idea (no one is allowed to mention TWGXXI; I learned my lesson).

I agree with eb for MVP. Realistically, the majority of us could have handled it just as well, but the fact remains that without that role in place, we'd have lost, and because eb filled that role, he deserves it.

PS Big ups to Vash. Without you, I'd probably have been lynched.

PPS to anyone who thought I was a wolf after the Vash convo: go die. There is no way in hell I'd fake something so contrived. Also, quick note about me as a wolf: completely unnable to fake convos. If I were a wolf, I'd have likely been lynched day2 from lack of convos to eb, since I can't fake a convo to save my life.

[evilbutterfly]

I'd vote for either eb or talis to get the MVP this game.

[Kilgamayan]

imma ignore kilgas post lol

[Afrobean]

imma ignore kilgas post lol

Oh yea, sorry about that. I meant to respond to it, but I just forgot to because I was caught up in responding to nforcer's.

Yea, I suppose I was a bit pissy now that you show'd me that. Totally justified in my opinion though. There is a huge difference than lynching someone who may be a wolf in my mind to save someone I'm 100% sure about and being close to lynching because people are retarded and were going to insta me when eb said nothing of instaing me and his vote was surely more for pressure than to say "we're gonna lynch afro now lolz."

I am sorry I had to help kill you, especially since you were human, but it had to be done to save my partner from blah's random strike of death.