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Re: TWG CIV: Postgame
yeah my goal day 1 was to get V lynched.
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Re: TWG CIV: Postgame
I totally didn't even realize at first how conductive of an alliance this game set-up would be and how awful that was for us. But ... arf. Now I know. This game is a little too thought-provoking, so I definitely need a break.
I didn't expect was that Charu was just a middleman, so I didn't look for a third living alliance member. Didn't suspect Kraut at all, because he wasn't posting like the others, even though that's something I would have used to defend myself as being a part of the alliance: saying that it was a distancing act (which is an easy defense, but it would have been reinforced by the Charu-Riot distancing, which turned out not to be an act).
When I did my fake claim, the stuff I said was honestly what I thought the alliance might have been trying to do ... but because Charu wasn't actually a part of the alliance, it wasn't an intentional effort between them to make Riot look like a bad wolfing target. So, post-game, that was really interesting to see how Charu worked at being the middleman. The V/pnt combination were my favorite players, though. I really liked how V was rallying up the town, and pnt continued with very well-thought-out posts.
In fact, it was in light of V's posts that I first found Funnygurl and YMIA to be suspicious. I wrote up cases against them that I never posted.
Here is the Wolf Game Plan that I had written up in case anyone is interested. It didn't consider the possibility of FoJaR getting lynched, because ... that would have been too bad for us. In order of best to worst scenario:
Eheh, arf, thanks for the compliment~ ... But yeah, I kinda whined a lot about how awful my OOT game was (and I was extremely disheartened when the IP Vote Check strategies were revealed, so it took me a while to figure how to make it work for us). OOT chat made it hard to be a shy wolf. So you're totally right about me there, and the people I talked with during my first game could easily tell I was acting differently this time.
When you asked me what my role was in the group chat ... I was like, caught off-guard and then felt dumb for not expecting the question. "I could answer everything else honestly, but great, now I have to lie." Someone hesitating to that question should be more indicative of a new player who doesn't know that the default answer is "Human" (like me) rather than of someone being a wolf because they don't want to lie (also like me).
My mom can always tell when I'm lying because of how uncomfortable I get. But thanks to that, I would actually get to doing my homework in high school, haha.
One of us getting lynched was the plan, yup, especially if I got lynched to make Funnygurl look more human in the process. And yeah, eheh, Jake revealed himself as the Hammer to me after I claimed, and my first thought was "Welp, so he knows I'm a wolf." But um, hope you don't blame yourself for that, Jake, ehe, sorry. *cute guilty face*
So saying anything about how much power the alliance has left is a double-edged sword, because you're trading confidence between the wolves and non-allianced town. I made the alliance look powerless to get people to use their own reasoning more, Kraut I think claimed seer to keep the wolves on their toes.
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Re: TWG CIV: Postgame
welp my read on fojar was right
and so was my read on danceguy
everything else was wrong
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Re: TWG CIV: Postgame
just because i thought it would be fun.Comment
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Re: TWG CIV: Postgame
dude you gotta let that one go lol. there was a really good reason to keep both of them alive at that time, one I didn't see until it was mentioned. T-Force protected Tokzic and things were also made to look like BDN would be a risky wolfkill target. keeping RSD and T-Force alive that phase almost put the humans in position for a comeback.
anyway sometimes when you do sketchy shit as a green you pay the price l0l
back on topic
@foj: I like that you mentioned fostering inactivity as a wolf tactic here. that's something I kinda forgot was valid and not cheap. it's really not imo. you did gud.
@YMIA: you had me fooooooled again >_>
@silv: I'm not too comfortable with lying quickly, either. practice will help. looking forward to the next time we play together, whenever that may be!
@humanz: any busted fakeclaim should be punishable by death imoComment
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Re: TWG CIV: Postgame
What, I should be punished for fake claiming as a seer?
dance, why you do this? Don't make me sad face.
Originally posted by Vendetta21Comment
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Re: TWG CIV: Postgame
Didn't think of it. My role was virtually useless early game, but I don't think people realize the potential it has if it makes it to late game. The alliance was worth setting up, moreso than hoping to make it to late game, in my opinion though. Anyways, more in-depth stuff.
RP You played a strange game. When you revealed blue to me, I didn't believe it at first. I figured you were a wolf fishing for possible info, or trying to block it somehow. When there weren't any counterclaims, it became obvious that you were the seer, I kinda understood why you were doing what you were. WP changing the vigi to Kevin, and it made sense for you to seer Danceguy instead of Charu, so well played there. Next game, at least there won't be another Thanksgiving. Still don't quite get what you were doing with that test over Skype.
Xiz Only we could've done what we did. I'm sorry I fucked it up for you. Lets both be wolves next game, ok? I really want to see that happen already heh.
Charu You played well, and you did well to get a blue to come out to you that early, thank goodness you weren't a wolf. Serving as the middle man to out a red seering was a very nice strategy, and you played it well. The wolves didn't see it coming.
Some loser You were the miller, so it kinda sucks what happened, but I'm glad that you weren't kept alive at least. You played well, and to your credit, suggested that I start making an alliance (after I had already started doing so hehe). Not really anything I can complain about for you.
Netjet You were busy. You're hella busy, apparently. Sucks that you couldn't play, but your replacement filled in well.
Kraut You and pnt were very key in the blue chat, and you both played masons very well. You had a few important contributions, as well as having to your credit being the only person trying to kill Silvuh on the last day.
Funny You played me HARD over Skype. Damn. I have nothing to say to you other than you had a fantastic first game. Look forward to seeing how you handle future games, now that I know that you don't have the problem with lying that you said you did.
Silvuh I knew you were a wolf just from Skype interactions, and I tried to get you seered instead of gradiant (yeah, a huge misplay from me, I'll explain more about it after I finish the list). Didn't work out, and you played well in the end. If you work on your OOT talk, you'll do very well in future OOT games, if you choose to do so.
V I wish you would've stuck around, I was trying to use what you had said to my ideas to bait wolves over Skype. I advocated a no-lynch solely to gauge your reaction, as well as people's reactions to your reaction, knowing it was a stupid idea that no one would really agree with (other than apparently funnygurl used it to make herself appear noobier). After that, I talked mad smack about you to a few people, but nothing really came out of it. You also drove me crazy going after Jake, making me think you were a duo-role trying to distance yourself from your partner. Oh well.
pnt See what I said about Kraut for the blue-chat stuff, and props to you for getting the alliance together 100% after I was dead. I know I kinda bothered you more than anyone else the way I handled the Xiz situation, and I guess I deserve that. Your interaction with members outside the alliance is particularly noteworthy, as you created a grand illusion of who was and who was not a member of the alliance very well, as well as who was what role.
mellon You didn't say too much, mainly utr. Me talking to you on Skype had you as a human too busy for the game, and I guess I was right about that at least.
James May Talked to you over Skype about the way you played this game, you've got to learn how to defend yourself well. If you play future games, and change the way you've been playing, you're going to end up in a far different place than where you ended up this game. 78 posts of nothing more than "I am green, you all have nothing on me" isn't really helpful.
svaz a bit busy for the game, from what I understand, sorry it worked out that way. Its kind of funny how everyone was suspicious of you, since you were UTR and no one really bothered with Fojar, who was doing the same thing.
Gradiant I fucked up with you. I couldn't convince you that I was the BS detector, and that nearly came back to bite me hard. I must say, people looking at the postcount would say that you didn't do much, but you had a very strong presence in the blue-chat. Still, I must say I expected you to post more.
YMIA I knew you were a wolf, you knew that I knew that you were a wolf, not much else to say here. Glad we got the roleblocker early.
fojar You're a bastard. But you played well. Fostering inactivity proved to cause the downfall of the humans, so gj.
Yeah, I couldn't put the finishing touches on the alliance. I was trying to set it up where players wouldn't know who the other player is until a moment or two before the end of the phase, so that if there was a wolf, they couldn't capitalize on it *that* night. Glad to know that none of you were, and that it was at least set up after I died. Yeah, RP told me that he was gonna seer Jake, I told him "no" but didn't explain my reasons, after I had told him that seering him might be a good idea earlier. I then spent too much time trying to convince Jake that I was the bs detector, and that he could trust the people that had claimed mason to me, and didn't get to tell him to change the seering, then RP's internet went out until after the phase, which is one hell of a disaster, hehe. I would've advocated seering silvuh or kevin, most likely silvuh if I had been smart enough to foresee what was going on. Oh well.
All in all, my favorite game thus far, aside from the ending. Can we not do that again?Comment
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Re: TWG CIV: Postgame
Nah, the moment I was ultra suspecting her was when I actually was talking to her over Skype during the voting strategy. She was kind of wavering in neutral to me, but when I asked her to vote and unvote, she instantly knew that it was because we were testing and I was like... "wait, wha...?"
That made me raise the red flag to her and I told pnt about my log, haha. Curses, I should've kept my mouth shut because I'm pretty sure their next seer target was Silvuh.
Originally posted by Vendetta21Comment
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Re: TWG CIV: Postgame
trying to make sure I be a more prolific poster now. As seen by this game, I would argue I gave more input than I have in most games. While it may not have been entirely truthful
it was input nonetheless. UTR is easier and all, but slightly less appealing. Sorry I couldn't stay longer wolves, was luck of the draw for them 
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Re: TWG CIV: Postgame
Seriously, humans, you guys fucking had it in the bag. It was your game to win or lose barring the Master Wolf (who wouldn't have lasted long in this particular instance, because, yeah) and you basically chose to lose the game. I think, though, that having such a sure strategy took the fun, and thus the motivation to participate out of the game (humans because they felt their input had no weight, wolves because it robbed them of control over their own destinies to a large degree), which combined with Thanksgiving eventually led the wolves to win. This game illustrates that it is ESSENTIAL for setups to be reviewed thoroughly in search of game-breaking strategies, which usually means it has to be looked at by more than one person (sorry @Fiction, but you are not the end-all be-all of game balancing, and I very much doubt this turned out to be the "perfect game" you envisioned.)
Furthermore, saying "OOT games are not proper games" is like saying California Rolls are not real sushi. It's simply another style of gameplay...in fact, it was the main style of gameplay here, that has been played since the beginning of TWG here, and has been the substrate of some amazing games. It's a completely different dynamic from traditional Mafia, and I think it gives FFR TWG it's own identity, and I'd be sad to see it go completely. However, it's important to know that turning the OOT switch on is not balanced by simply turning some other switches off. Balancing a game for Outside Communication requires critical thinking about how roles function in this environment, something that was obviously missing from the development of this setup, @YoshL. I appreciate your efforts, and I know what you were going for. I would definitely vote for and play a revised version of this setup if it came up in the future. But in it's current state it is broken. Right away, I would get rid of the Masons and turn Instalynch off.
Some other points of balance to note.
• A Seer in OOT games is basically a variant of the Masonizer; greens can't be confirmed with an MW, but he can recruit blues with 100% certainty if he can read them, and can find reds without dying. In balancing OOT games, this should always be taken into account.
• Humans getting wolf "package deals" of any kind are a BIG no-no, unless wolves are VERY powerful. Even so, it should never take any balance-important power away from the wolves in the process.
• Always treat Masons as if they are verifiable, even if they theoretically aren't.~ OFFICIALLY RETIRED FROM FFR THE GAME AND FFR TWG ~
Thanks for the memories, folks. u da bes
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Re: TWG CIV: Postgame
this. so much this. and I wouldn't even say this game or last game pushed anything over the edge. it's just a routinely noticeable thing.
I don't understand why we're all so antsy to jump into a game right after host signups or player signups end. can't we all simmer down for a sec? especially considering we've seen activity taper off near the ends of our games. in addition to providing extra time for hammering out any and all balance issues, maybe a slower start to each game would encourage a more consistent pace.Comment
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Re: TWG CIV: Postgame
I'm really embarrassed that the one vote I was all in upon was not only an easy in for wolves, but on a blue. I quit TWG forever, I am so embarrassed. I'm sorry.
;_;
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